When Todd Hollandsworth fouled a pitch off his knee and had to leave the game, only to get to the clubhouse in time to watch Tom Goodwin strike out and have it credited to Todd, it was over. The score at that point was irrelevant. Some days things go your way. Some days you foul a ball off your knee. Yesterday the Cubs as a team fouled one off their knee.
You can’t begrudge the White Sox their day. They won 9-4 even though Stevie Loiaza pitched like he was trying to let the Cubs win. They took two of three in the series, moved within a game of the Twins and then made the kind of trade that good teams make.
It was a good day for the Sox and their fans. They got in their Camaros, took the t-tops off, threw Foreigner “Four” into the 8-track and headed down the Dan Ryan with smiles on their faces.
As for the Cubs. Well, there’s an awful lot of work to do.
There’s also an awful lot of time to do it.
Pedantic nitwits like Phil Rogers and Doughnuts Mariotti are already trying to equate the Cubs loss of a 9-4 lead on Wednesday in St. Louis with the beginning of the end. Since that game the Cubs are 1-4. That’s not good. It’s also not exactly disaster.
If the playoffs started today, everybody would be caught off guard because it’s three months early. Oh, I kill me. But the Cubs are tied with Cincinnati for the NL Wild Card. The Reds don’t count. So there’s no need to panic. The Cardinals don’t get to play AA Kansas City all year (though they do get them three more times this weekend) and they’ll come back to the pack.
Houston has been so revitalized by the Carlos Beltran trade that they’ve scored nine runs in his three games! They lost two of them. Granted, he did make a great catch yesterday to rob Michael Young of a homer.
Kenny Williams made a nice trade yesterday for Freddy Garcia. Freddy will miss pitching at spacious Safeco Field where opponents bat .198 against him (.278 on the road) and where his ERA is a paltry 2.61 (compared to 3.91 on the road). But he’ll get the AL’s best run support with the Sox instead of the worst like he’s been getting with Seattle.
The Sox will miss Miguel Olivo, especially when their only options are the decaying corpse of Sandy Alomar and the horrendous Ben Davis. How bad is Ben Davis. Well, let’s just say he’s the Rey Ordonez of catchers right now.
But that’s of little consequence. Garcia will help more than Alomar and Davis will hurt.
The Cubs obviously have some needs of their own. Mainly they need to find real Major League caliber players to replace these guys, who clearly aren’t Major League caliber.
Gabor Paul Bako II — 13-65, .200 BA, has hit one ball out of the infield in June.
Rey Ordonez — 3-36, .083 BA, three errors in 13 games. Yes, as many hits as errors.
Tom Goodwin — 10-51, .196, Tom’s been on base 12 more times than you have this year.
The return of Mike Wuertz to the roster just makes my head hurt. But it’s obvious that Mike Remlinger’s shoulder is bad again and with neither he or Kent Mercker able to get lefties out at all (and righties are an adventure, anyway) the Cubs need a lefty reliever.
The Astros are hot on the trail of Arthur Rhodes, and who wouldn’t be. The lefty reliever has limited lefthanded hitters this year to a .371 batting average and a 1.015 OPS! Holy crap. Is that true? If I’m Jim Hendry I’m on the horn trying to make sure Rhodes gets to Houston. Hell, I’d send the Tribune jet for him.
For those of you who wondered why Jimmy Anderson didn’t grab a pizza and get on a bus back to Chicago yesterday instead of Wuertz, he has to spend 10 days in Iowa (kind of like prison) before another roster move involving him can be made. That’s why Wuertz got the recall…again. Plus Wuertz’ option for 2004 has already been used so they can shuffle him back and forth from Des Moines to Chicago as often as they want. Yee haw. Lucky us.
Hendry will make a move before the All-Star Game of some ilk. The Cubs seem content to wait for Alex Gonzalez to come back before launching Ordonez and Alex has said he expects to be ready right around the All-Star break. The scary part is that Ramon Martinez has proven over and over the last two years that if you make him play every day he becomes useless. He’s of limited use anyway, but more so when he’s tired, so Rey will get at least two more starts between now and then. Yikes.
If I were running the Cubs (and aren’t you all glad I’m not), I’d be after two guys on the current Royals roster. They’re veterans, they have proven track records and they come cheap. Both have already played in Chicago. I’d swing a trade for Matt Stairs and Tony Graffanino. Stairs gives you a lefty off the bench and can play left, right or first. Tony is not Rey Ordonez and can play second, short or third (though he’s nailed to the ground at short, so don’t expect much).
However, if you get Stairs it comes with a warning. You have to keep Jose Macias around. With Tom Goodwin launched, you have no backup center fielder. Hollandsworth can play there in a pinch (once his knee returns to normal size and shape) but do we really want an outfield with the combined range of Sosa, Alou and Hollandsworth?
Of course, there’s one bold move that the Cubs could make that would help immediately. But it involves the scariest thing in baseball. Trading with the Braves. And the scariest thing in baseball for the Cubs…taking on salary.
If the Braves are serious about trading Andruw Jones, the Cubs could do it. In fact, the Cubs package for Jones might be the most attractive in all of baseball. Atlanta’s very own Corey Patterson, Alex Gonzalez (whose 2004 expiring contract is sure to be attractive to the Braves), Georgia’s very own Kyle Farnsworth and Dave Kelton, and pitchers Bobby Brownlie and Jermaine Van Buren for Andruw Jones, Rafael Furcal and John Smoltz.
Is that enough? Probably not. But just for a moment assume it was. This would be the Cubs’ lineup:
Furcal, ss
Gruddy/Walker, 2b
Sosa, rf
E-ramis, 3b
Alou, lf
Lee, 1b
Jones, cf
Barrett, c
And how’d you like the one-two punch of LaTroy and Smoltz to finish? The Cubs have talked to the Braves about trading for Smoltz, and so far have been told he’s not available. But the Braves don’t hold on to players just so they can “retire as Braves.” After a shaky start, look at Smoltz’s numbers.
13-14 saves, 2.78 ERA, 33 strikeouts, one walk. One walk. Yikes. (By the way, it was Frank Thomas, June 11)
The Sox and Braves talked about a potential Magglio Ordonez trade for Andruw, but that’s very un-Braveslike. They’re not going to trade Jones for a player who won’t be around next year. Besides if they really wanted Ordonez they could trade Jones for a player who makes less money and then sign Magglio in the offseason.
The scary thing about Andruw this year is that his numbers aren’t any better than Corey’s.
Andruw: .243 BA, .333 OBP, .470 SLG, 12 HR, 37 RBI, 2 SB, 4 CS, 36 BB, 67 K
Corey: .281 BA, .339 OBP, .453 SLG, 9 HR, 31 RBI, 9 SB, 4 CS, 23 BB, 60 K
Plus, Andrew only makes $12 million more than Corey. There is the thing about Druw being the greatest defensive centerfielder of all-time. That’s kind of a nice bonus. But who would have thought that at 27, Jones would be on the block? He is, and mainly because he gives off a distinct I-don’t-give-a-f@#$. Which is normally the kind of thing that getting traded knocks out of you. But come to think of it, at $12 million a year, that’s not a safe enough bet.
For now, the Cubs would be happy with just calling up the Mariners and trading a prospect for Barrington native Dan Wilson to back up Barrett. Then, getting Kerry Wood back in the rotation and replacing Wuertz with Rusch. It’s not exciting, but it would help.
Regardless, try to not get too depressed about the events of the past five days. It’s not time to panic.
But when that time comes, we’ll be happy to fill you in.
—
Cubs notes, including Dusty’s absurd notion that Bako is valuable because he needs to rest Barrett so he won’t fade in the second half. That’s why Bako’s not valuable. If he needs to play, he can’t.
Phil Rogers hits the panic button for the Cubs. How can you take anybody with that haircut seriously?
Mariotti puts down the doughnut to say he thinks the Sox are now the city’s best shot at a title.
The Yankees seem miffed that nobody asked them for permission for the Mariners to trade Garcia to anybody but them. Screw off, New York.
Jon Heyman just makes stuff up. He says Tom Glavine could end up in Boston. He also rips on my family. OK, they’re not really my family. I wish they were, I could use some of that Cablevision money.
There’s still hope that Jimy Williams will last the season in Houston.
What a shock! Free from the tyrannical rule of Jimy Williams, Ricard Hidalgo is hitting. Williams’ managerial career is full of guys he just didn’t like for some reason, who he benched in favor of inferior players. Jimy’s a real peach.
Ken Rosenthal with a looooong list of news and notes. I’ll tell you what if the Astros and Cardinals add Ron Villone and Kris Benson, the Cubs won’t need to make a move.
Sports Guys’ draft diary.
Peter Gammons is just making stuff up, too.
This earthquake woke me up today. I’ve been through one other one, and I knew just what it was.
Ahh, Microsoft. Thanks! Morans.
Cell phones can cut your sperm motility by 30 percent. Who needs condoms?
Britney’s newfound poundage and engagement? She’s allegedly preggers.
America’s finest news source says Jeff Gordon’s fond of his plastic cup visage.
Ben Davis or Paul Bako? And yes, you have to choose one.
I’m only the second worst catcher in town now!
Hey, if you add my stats and Ben’s we’re 6-69 this year (.086) and that actually bring my average UP!
Don’t worry Cubs fans, I’ve already instructed Carlos not to run at full speed anywhere near the brick wall at Wrigley Field…I’ve also told the Astros that under no circumstances will Carlos chase a fly ball onto that hill at their park. Let Berkman and Biggio chase that s#$%.
Oh yes. Maddux allowed 7 earned runs in 4 innings.
We’ve just recieved serveral repair bills for televisions. They state damage was caused when we called home run shots made by the Sox this weekend. This has never happened before. I wonder why? Maybe because no one watches us?
The Braves would love to get rid of Andruw Jones, especially for someone like Corey. Jones is putting on weight, already has two bad knees, has lost a step in center, always has had a horse@#$* attitude, and is just as disciplined a hitter as Corey (read:not good).
The worst home run call by Hawk and DJ was the non-call of Ramon Martinez’s 9th inning homer on Friday. The ball was hit right down the line, and Hawk (in full sulk mode) and DJ (can’t speak unless Hawk does) just sat there. I wasn’t sure if it was a homer or a foul ball until the camera showed Ramon rounding second.
What the hell is the problem a Hall of Famer to be and I can’t get any calls? But little Stevie gets the calls I don’t?
Let’s see…I’m 2-0, 1.80 with 7 saves at Iowa. And Worse gets another shot?
Plus, I could leave the dugout & fly some of the planes when the Air Show comes to town.
I was going to call a TV repairman this morning, since my box had no audio.
Then I remembered that I have had it muted since Saturday.
Say what you will about Chip. He’s awful, he sucks, he’s terrible. I hate him.
But even worse is the hack on the South Side whose shtick is one catchphrase after another.
I’d rather listen to a dork over a cartoon.
Check out my ERA at Iowa. I own the PCL!
Even though I knew that only 20 percent of the viewing audience was rooting for the White Sox, I kept my act up the whole weekend.
Am I a huuuuge douche?
Yuh-esssss!
The moment of truth for the Cubs is coming. Say they stick with Bako as the backup catcher. What happens if on August 1 Mike Barrett cripples himself?
Do we really have to go two full months and the playoffs with Gabor?
Silly question, if we go two months with him, there won’t be any playoffs.
Maybe Tim Laudner’s still available..
From my website, Chicagoed.com.
I LIKE CHIP!!!
And aren’t all of you glad to see how my career is going? This from my weekly guest spot in Lerner Newspapers:
OH NO SAY IT ISN’T SO, CHIP DON’T GO
Several recent Chicago sports columns indicated that Chip Caray is not locked in to the Cubs broadcast booth for next season and beyond. According to published reports his current contract is up at the end of this season and the Cubs are required to inform him by the end of June if they intend to renew, but so far no news. Both columns leaned toward the negative.
Chip Caray was initially hired to work with his grandfather in the 97′ season. Harry’s death precluded that pairing from ever taking place. A clever idea perhaps, but what resulted with Chip and Steve Stone being paired has worked just fine for me and I’m assuming most Cub fans.
Fans don’t watch or listen to ball games like sports writers. The average viewer doesn’t pick apart the play-by-play and analysis coming from the broadcast booth. They just enjoy the ebb and flow.
Caray has been a Cubs caller for almost seven years. Resigning him to another deal should be a no-brainer. He’s now part of the family. The combination of Caray and Stone is glove perfect. They’re a good fit for each other and the broadcast.
Caray has been accused by some of the writers of not being glib when unique moments demand. To that I say let them sit in that hot seat and give it a try under the same pressure and we’d see if the quips would just keep on coming from any of them.
This is a good broadcast team and whatever it takes to keep Caray and Stoney together is what Tribune executives should be working on.
Normally I’m not a fan of plucking athletes off the field and plugging them into the broadcast booth just because they wore a uniform. Often it just doesn’t work. Steve Stone was a grand exception. He learned the craft. His baseball experience melds smoothly with his timely commentary, sense of humor and ability to explain what we’re seeing.
So, will the Tribune Company do the right thing? Could Chip Caray possibly want something the Cubbies can’t deliver? Perish the thought. If they can’t keep Caray in the booth, who is waiting in the wings, Bozo?
Hey Eddie, I thought I was already the Cubs play-by-play guy.
Yeah, Boze, but I’m always picking up the lunch tab.
My team just served your asses up on a platter this weekend, and the best y’all can do is whine about me? What a bunch of Mariottis!
You mean Bozo was available and the Tribune passed him up for Chip?
This is the first time in history that we have ever been equated with winning two out of three.
When I was on The Score, prior to the first pitch on Friday, I boldly, haughtily, and mightily declared, "I don’t give a dadgum about ERA! You jus’ gimme win and pahsshun for da game and we’ll hang wif ’em. You can throw ERA right out the window. I want the pitcher with a dadgum winning record!!!!"
How much do you want to bet that he now excuses Fatty Garcia’s losing record & points to his ERA?
I’ve told you a million times that I’m prone to exaggeration and hyperbole. All part of my schtick that y’all love so much.
When you’re cleverly pretending to be someone else, it’s best to keep the illusion alive by not switching from first person to third person in the course of your post.
Dope.
"No doubt, this is turning into a Sox town."
Guess I looked at the attendance figures over the weekend & forgot who the visiting team was.
Just stick to booing Sosa when he plays at the one Sux game you attend all year.
A big *SNAP!* to me.
Why would I go to more than one Sox game a year? As a gay man, I have a much better chance of finding a date when the Cubs are at the Cell.
Your love of mulleted gay men with back hair & ear wax who share your affection of Black Oak Arkansas really suits Comiskey Dump.
On the trade of all our players who have value for all of yours who don’t, your conclusion is correct: Probably Not.
I’m trying to figure out the insult in #26.
Is calling the opposition queer really an insult after identifying yourself as being of the non-breeding persuasion?
The fact that they dropped 2 of 3 is what sucks. Sox, Brew Crew, Battling Bucco’s….whoever. It really doesn’t matter that it was the Sox.
My wife made me promise to never rip Chip again after I made her sit through 3 games of Hawk and Single Sack. I told her I couldn’t promise anything….
But I’m proof that anytime Atlanta wants to dump its players of no value on to the Cubs, Hendry will be happy to oblige.
Can’t even have an intelligent argument on this site anymore.
Aren’t I really Single Ball? I’ve never seen a guy with two sacks.
Who said #26 was supposed to be an insult? You homophobic jerks.
*Kiss Kiss*
OUCH!!!!!
I’ve never seen a guy with two sacks, either. And while I’m no TW, I’ve seen more than a few….
I do make things up, but getting a SS like Cabrera from Montreal to bat leadoff isn’t a bad idea.
The flipside of waiting for Alex Gonzalez to get healthy is that when he comes back, you remember that the wait wasn’t for a difference-maker.
It’s like a double cheese burger. You only get one bun but two patties. DJ is a pattie short.
Andy, I’m looking at the standings right now and I see a reason for concern.
The Cardinals, if they go .500 the rest of the way, will either get 89 or 90 wins. The Cubs currently have a winning percentage of .547, which (If my math is correct, and it hasn’t been good for years, but let’s take a look anyway) if they continue on for the rest of the season they will end up with either 88 or 89 wins.
My point, essentially, is that if the Cardinals go five above .500 or any better for the rest of the season, we are in deep trouble. The math simply works against us. For the Cubs to win 95 games, they would need to win 54 out of the last 87 games. Which isn’t impossible, but that is asking the Cubs to go .621 the rest of the way. And that winning percentage is higher than the one St. Louis has at this point, albeit only through 75 games.
The good news for the Cubs is that they are as close to healthy as they have been all season. And the Cardinals have not yet suffered an injury bug. And, with them, it doesn’t have to be even close to the level of the one the Cubs have suffered.
If Womack goes down they lose their table-setter. If a bullpen guy goes down they have no real depth in my opinion. And if a starter goes down they have to put in someone like Dan Haren into the spot. And we remember how fun that was, don’t we?
So, count me in the concerned, but not yet conceding anything, camp.
Good post, BC!
Did anyone hear the Sux fan on Hanley’s show last nite, bitching about not being able to get tix to next weekend’s series "since Cubs fans already bought them all up?"
Yeah…Just like all 11 home series before it, Dicklick.
While the Cards play 15 straight against SD, LA, & Hou, the Cubs get Montreal, Pittsburgh, & Florida.
While FLA will be tough, if the Cubs are going to win, they MUST beat-up on the Expos, and what might be another depleted Pirates team by then.
Another brief point to include is that this whole thing may be decided by the end of July.
For the Cardinals, this week is pretty easy (At Pirates, home against Seattle, almost guaranteed 4-2 in my opinion barring something odd happening). However, after that, here is what they have:
Vs Reds
Vs Cubs
(All-Star break)
at Reds (4 gms)
at Cubs (2 gms)
vs Brewers (2 gms)
vs Giants
at Reds
at Giants
Other than those two Milwaukee games, which at this point aren’t gimmes by any stretch, that is a tough stretch. If we can’t make up some games in that stretch (Which ends with a game on August 1), it might be over.
We will be the reason the Cubs will make the playoffs easily. Beat us 12 times and you gain about seven on the .500 mark.
Who’s to say that I won’t continue to bite the Cubs? Moises Alou hasn’t had a treadmill accident in a few years.
Your minor league notables update…
AAA- J.Dubois RF 5AB 1R 3H 3RBI .310 – HR (16); 11 RBI in last 7 G
AA- R.Lewis 2B 5AB 0R 2H 0RBI .326
AA- C.Blasko 4.0IP 2H 1R 1ER 0BB 5K 0HR 5.67
A- F.Pie CF 6AB 4R 5H 5RBI .322 – 2B, 3B, HR (5), SB, SF
A- B.Sing 1B 3AB 1R 2H 2RBI .285 – HR (21), 2 BB, HBP
A- B.Dopirak 1B 4AB 1R 1H 1RBI .301 – HR (21), BB, 2 K
It’s curious that one of the main points Cub fans around here keep bringing up re: the superiority of the Cubs has to do with the team’s attendance, especially compared against the White Sox.
Now granted, most of you stayed home on prom night (and, in Dolan’s case, every night since), but still — did the popular kids scar you so badly back in high school that most of your self-worth became tied up in rooting for the team with the most sellouts? Do you hope Chip the QB and Cindy the cheerleader will bump into you at Wrigley and buy you a beer to catch up on the good old days?
Do you extend this popularity concept to other phases of your lives? Do you all drive Toyotas? Eschew all other dining establishments in favor of McDonald’s? Use PCs in lieu of Macs? Drink only Coke? Listen to that new Beastie Boys album that moved almost 85k units last week?
If not, why not?
Please trade for me. I play short and hit around .340
It’s called enjoying baseball in person.
It’s called supporting your team.
It’s called having a good-paying job so that we have enough disposable income to see a game w/o getting plastered on half price night & pillaging old men.
Here’s a note I just got from Miami from the Florida Marlins:
"Hey Cubs fans, you don’t have to win the division to win or even get to the World Series…
Heck, with our pals the Anaheim Angels, the last two World Series winners have been Wild Card winners.
Seeing how the Cubs went a dazzling 2-4 at home (While going 4-2 in Atlanta and Miami) in last year’s postseason, you guys might want to be on the road if you get to the playoffs anyway, which you would if you get that wild card we like to use to win titles.
Just thought you would like to know."
So the inference isn’t that there are more Cub fans than Sox fans, but that Cub fans go to more games than Sox fans? Both? Neither?
And what does point #3 have to do with anything? You may recall that William Ligue was a Cub fan, after all….
No, there are more Cubs fans.
To poster 50/46, as long as you’re around, perhaps you could tell me exactly what makes Sox fans believe their team is so superior. So far, the answer I get is usually "Cubs suck", and when I ask for an elaboration, I get "they just suck". So what is it? For the last 3 years, I’ve hear how the Sox were much better because they won their division in 2000, and underachieved to a few 2nd place finishes after that. Suddenly this year, the Cubs winning a division title (and playoff series) doesn’t matter because "they didn’t make it to the World Series". So what is it that makes the Sox so great? Because it seems to me that most Sox fans hate the Cubs because they are popular. That’s why I like to bring it up.
I couldn’t care less how many Sux fans are in Chicago. All I know is I enjoy seeing major league baseball, as I have for the last 40 years.
Meanwhile, paranoid Sux fans such as yourself spend time on Cubs message boards, rather than actually getting excited about your team getting a pitcher.
Phucking pathetic.
BC,
I see you still haven’t learned anything. There are too many overlooked variables in your equation.
BC,
I see you still haven’t learned anything. There are too many overlooked variables in your equation.
I repeat, "no doubt this is turnng into a Sox town."
Which is why Sux fans get dial up internet service in their trailers, in order to frequent Cubs sites.
As long as Sux fans insist on posting here, please learn that you only have to click on "post this comment" one time.
I’m not a Sox fan. I posted twice as I recall he didn’t pick up on things very quickly. I see you share the same trait.
No, I’m not a Cubs fan. I am a strung-out addict from Alsip or Blue Island.
Eric Dybas was supposedly the Cubs fan. Well, at least he was the guy who got bombed at Wrigley before he attempted to jump Laz Diaz.
BC, I think you left out the most troubling stat for the Cubs. Last year they won the division mainly because they went 47-37 against the teams in the NL Central. So far this year they are only 22-20 against the Central. This is the area where the Cubs need to pick it up. Another sweep of the Astros would be a good start.
We need help.
I’m a Poison fan.
Yes please me to Chicago. Derrek Lee can help me cut down on errors.
What my hair lip meant to say is please send us to Chicago. Playing with Derrek Lee will cut down on errors we make. Plus we are pretty good with the bat.
Hi Jack, remember us? WE’re your career averages. We’ll see you again next year. Enjoy your reprieve…
…is the correct spelling, since it refers to the lip being split like that of a rabbit’s.
He’s right.
http://www.yourencyclopedia.net/Hair-lip
How about Melvin Mora for some of our young pitchers. Baltimore has a terrible staff, that needs help and Mr. Mora can play short and bat lead-off. Then deal Gonzo or Grud to the Yankees for Quantrill and Cairo. Only need a back-up catcher then.
CT, here’s why I think the Sox are the better team, and a bit on why I’m a Sox fan.
First off, if the discussion begins and ends with how the two teams have done over the past year and a half, then you’re a different kind of baseball fan than I am. A fair bit of the beauty of the game stems from its long history, and our own experiences within this history. (Stop me before I go all James Earle Jones.) So if your Cub fandom begins in April 2003, then you’ve got my Sox fandom trumped. But that’s kind of like having a favorite XFL team, isn’t it?
The Sox are superior to the Cubs because the point of baseball is, ultimately, to win games. And over the past decade, the Sox have outdone the Cubs in that regards. (Heck, the Cubs hope to have back-to-back winning seasons this year for the first time since 1972.) And if you don’t finish in first, hopefully you stayed interested ’til Labor Day — which hasn’t been the case for the Cubs in a lot of years, while those "underachieving" Sox have run up a mess of second-place finishes.
I was born in 1970 and have been a Sox fan since childhood — in part, perhaps, because Interlake had a Straight A/Perfect Attendance free ticket program at my elementary school in LaGrange, so those were the games my dad and I went to the most. (Of course, when Danley build our new garage, we got free Cubs tix and went to see them that year.)
In my lifetime, the Sox have gone 2710-2726 to date — almost a winning record, with a .499 winning percentage! "Competitive" is the word we prefer, especially when we’ve finished at .500 or better every year in the new millennium. Over that same 1970-present frame, the Cubs have posted a 2608-2835 record — hence the "loveable losers" thing. How precious. Perhaps most amazingly, their only second-place finishes came in 1970 and the wild card year of 1998.
Since 1970, the Cubs have won their division three times, and won the Selig seat (wild card) once. The Sox have won their division three times in that same time, and were in first when our idiot owner helped instigate the players strike in 1994. Tiny advantage, Cubs.
I’ve given the numbers for my lifespan so as not to cherrypick and build the best case for my team. Heck, if you’re a Cub fan and a few years younger than me, then you miss out on the banner years of 1970-1972, when the Cubs went 252-227, a fair bit out of proportion from the .479 winning percentage the Cubs have stumbled too over the course of my lifetime. (If I could throw out the same years for the Sox, I’d lose a stinky 222-256 performance over that same period.)
Sox fan. Likes winning baseball. Wasn’t born yesterday. Ergo, likes Sox. And I’ve never had a mullet, have a Big 10 college degree, and make decent money working in marketing.
btw, is this strictly a Cubs message board? (Shrug) I’ve had this place bookmarked since back when Andy had a regular fantasy baseball column on a different site. (Rotowire?) Of course, I guess there used to be a lot of non-baseball content back then….
You can play me at shortstop if you’re ready for 25 errors in the 2nd half.
And unless Costanza is running the Yankees again, why would they trade Quantrill for Mark G? I’m sure they really want Gonzo. They’re hurting for shortstops right now.
Does anyone remember what happened the last time the Cubs 41-34 in late June and just came off of a bad series, which then led to, let’s say a 6-14 stumble through the All-Star Break?
Steve, I don’t hate the Sox. I just don’t care about the Sox. That is where we are different. I don’t define myself in reference to a team in another league.
Sorry, but I don’t equate the Sox with winning baseball. No matter how you try to break it down, it doesn’t work for me.
And, Steve, if you’re saying you are a fan of "winning teams" I’m sure you also enjoyed the runs of the Dolphins, Steelers, 49ers, A’s, Yanks, Big Red Machine, Blue Jays, and Twins of previous years.
I don’t need all those numbers to explain why I’m a Cubs fan. My grandfather would hold my hand as we walked up to the ticket window in the late 1960’s. He, my father, and I would cheer & scream & eat dogs all day. It’s part of my heritage.
You can root for the Sox since they’re "winners." I’ll root for the Cubs until the day I die out of loyalty.
No, this isn’t a "Cubs" Web site. The Cubs dominate the site all summer long, but we’re a full service annoyance.
A few quick things to clarify:
1. Cubbiebluestew, I only mention the Cubs in terms of growing up in the Chicago area as a baseball team and figuring out which one I wanted to support. I guess that part may have been unclear somehow — for clarification, in those few markets that have two baseball teams, each baseball fan in the area usually prefers one to the other, with alternating degrees of apathy and antipathy toward the other team. No really, it’s true!
2. Herpes, "winning" Sox baseball is a relative thing, but the Sox have outperformed the Cubs in my lifetime, especially in my post-collegiate years when I have been able to go to 15 games a year. And the Sox have given me a lot more memorable Septembers than any Cubs fan of my age has been able to enjoy. And no, the winning runs of the other teams you mentioned had no impact on me, what with the topic of discussion being Chicago baseball and all. If my loyalty to the Sox was somehow unclear, I’m not sure what to tell you.
3. Anonymous potshotters and CT, you asked me to explain my Sox fandom and I did. It has nothing to do with the Cubs — I own half a dozen Sox caps, a few tees, a jersey — and zero pieces of anti-Cub or anti-Sammy wear.
Andy, your readers have spoken. Some claim not to care at all about the Sox, although those that do enjoy throwing out all sorts of ridiculous stereotypes about the Sox while boasting about the Cubs popularity.
So how about this? You stop ripping on the Sox in your Daily Dose, and I’ll stop correcting the record?
Steve, well, that’s kind of the issue. I’ve been a Cubs fan since 1980 (born in 1975, can’t really claim a team before the age of 5). However, I don’t generally measure the superiority of a baseball team by how many games it won over a period of 30 years, but by how many World Series it has won (which I believe to be the point of baseball). For each team, the total stands at 2 since their inception, with no wins since 1918. So while I acknowledge that the Sox win pct. of .499 is marginally better than the .470 the Cubs put up in that time, I still don’t see how that gives the Sox a claim to some sort of overwhelming superiority. I understand you like the Sox because you developed an attachment to them as a kid. This is the same way I became a Cubs fan (my dad was a Cubs fan and took me to Cubs games). However, quite a few Sox fans act as though they were called by some wise baseball higher power to be fans of the team. That only a dolt would be a Cubs fan when such a highly superior product was available across town. I guess that’s my main beef, neither side really has the right to be quite so arrogant. And I never said you had a mullet.
We have a huge 4 game edge per 162 games.
I think that each team has its share of douchebag fans, but that is what makes this rivalry fun.
I like the Cubs – a lot – but I like the Sox more. I used to be rather ambivalent toward the Cubs, until I spent a three-game series at Busch Stadium. The anti-Chicago vitrol by "baseball’s greatest fans" was enough to convince me that this city deserves a World Series more than anyone. That, and how can I root against a team that gives me day baseball to help pass along the workday?
Still, I think that the anti-Sox stuff is pretty funny and has become a parody (kinda like Lassie). It really doesn’t bother me, and I’m entertained by how the same jokes can be recycled in new and interesting ways. And up until this season, the Cubs fans on this site really did ignore what the Sox did (although as the site has grown in popularity, there seems to be a lot more attention paid to the South Side).
When Sox fans stop rippping on the Cubs, maybe I’ll stop ripping on Sox fans.
I don’t hate the Sox — I really don’t give a flying eff about them.
But the vast majority of Sox fans make me sick. Steve, I feel you might be the exception, but I still think you’re wrong about Sox being winners.
:::The Sox are superior to the Cubs because the point of baseball is, ultimately, to win games. And over the past decade, the Sox have outdone the Cubs in that regards.:::
I see. The barrier is 10 years. That works if you are 14.
Here’s what’s happened since Kennedy was shot:
Division Titles:
Cubs – 1984, 1989, 2003
Sox – 1983, 1993, 2000
Additional Playoff years:
Cubs – 1998
Sox – None
Record in playoff Series
Cubs – 1-4
Sox – 0-3
HOF Players in those years
Cubs: Jenkins, Williams, Banks.
Sox: Aparicio, Fisk *
* Inducted as a Red Sox, despite more games played in Chicago
Retired Players likely to be inducted:
Cubs: Sandberg
Sox: None
Current Players likely to be inducted:
Cubs: Sosa, Maddux
Sox: Thomas*
* Questionable due to inability to play the field
Yeah. The Sox are sure a better franchise.
FYI – The Sox had more wins in the 90’s than the Yankees. I think the Yanks did a little better that decade than the Sox. Wanna count winning percentages? Fine. I’ll take 4 playoff seasons with one instance of success over your three. That’s either 33% better, or infinitly better if your measure is post-season wins.
#78, that’s some solid math skills you have there! And if you think four games per season is marginal, then you may have missed the 2003 season, when three of the six division races were won by four games or fewer. Including, of course, the AL and NL Central.
CT, I apologize for those Sox fans who have hit your with their smug attitudes. But for every one who has done that, there are five who could honestly give a rat’s arse about the Cubs. That doesn’t mean they hate the Cubs — just that, you know, they don’t care.
Chuck, I guess our main difference boils down to which is preferable. You can have that one season of absolute excellence, or you can know that just about every year, your team truly has a shot to get to the playoffs, and hence onwards to the World Series. (Versus just hoping they win.)
Sadly, in this case, "absolute excellence" boils down to the Cubs’ first-round playoff victory last year. I tip my cap, sir.
With the Sox, most years during my adulthood I’ve known we have a good team, and I’ve rarely feared buying advance tickets to potentially "meaningless" September games after your team is eliminated. As a supporter of a Cubs team that won 67 or fewer games in 2002, 2000, and 1999, you may well be familiar with the concept of playing out the season by the time Labor Day comes around.
But you’ve thrown out some great names in your HOF figures, while ignoring, say, the Cy Young and MVP Awards Chicago’s two teams have won, which are pretty equal. And we’ll see which cap Maddux wears to his HOF enshrinement.
I know, we all love to pick cherries around the 4th of July.
Let’s throw out the real indicator of which team is better: all-time records in head-on interleague play! (I kid because I’m a kidder — even though the Sox are better there, too.)
And yes, Steve will be staying at the office well into the evening to make up for all of the time he’s spent on DMV today.
"Sox fan. Likes winning baseball. Wasn’t born yesterday. Ergo, likes Sox."
This implies (or begs for clarification) that Cub fans don’t like/want winning baseball and that we were born yesterday (ie suckers). Ergo, we’re Cub fans.
You’re partially right about one thing. The point of baseball is to win games…the 4 games required games to bring home a World Series championship. Every other winning season doesn’t mean squat (ask Braves fans). They make the season more enjoyable, but the goal is the WS trophy, not 115 wins.
And the whole mullet/camaro jokes are akin to the cellphone/fans of Wrigley jokes. You just see them more here because there are more Cub fans gathered here. I bet you’d hear more Bush jokes at a Kerry fundraiser than a Bush fundraiser (well, maybe thats a bad example…)
Since we’re laying out pedigrees….
I don’t remember following and vividly recalling games until 1983, the Winning Ugly Sox (I was 8). In 84 I started watching Cub games. So I got the two good, winning seasons of winning baseball to make up my mind. I’m a Cub fan. Why? Well, I always found the Cubs to be more enjoyable to watch. Probably due to all the stolen bases in the NL at the time. The AL game never seemed to have as much going on (whether that’s true or not, I don’t know, but that’s how it seemed to me). Plus I got to watch a future HOF in Ryne Sandberg (it’s only a matter of time before he’s in). No, I didn’t know he was going to be a HOFer, but he was a lot of fun to watch. Yes I’m aware that the Sox had HOFer Carlton Fisk. It was just hard to get enthused about a catcher. You don’t see catchers run all over to make plays or turn two like you do a fielder. More importantly, my mothers parents are the only set of grandparents I’ve know as my father’s passed away before I was born. They are Cub fans. My mom is a Cubs fan (my dad is a Sox fan). We would go to more Cub games when I was little because of A) we would always take my grandparents and B) I could stay awake for day games. So it really never mattered if they were winning or losing. As I got older I would wonder what it was like for my 80 year old grandparents to be at Wrigley back in the 30’s. There was a history w/ Wrigley and the Cubs that I could personally relate to. It was never about the Sox. I never felt that I liked the inferior team.
See…"Why I’m a Cub fan" that has nothing to do with who’s won more games and doesn’t have anything to do with Sox fans. It can be done.
Steve, if you’re still there…
Please explain the Sox fans ire toward Sammy Sosa. I don’t like Sosa myself, but it would be like me having deep hatred for Frank Thomas. Thomas is a prick of unequaled proportions, but I don’t waste any energy on the pud.
Steve is the number of Sox fans who are not defensive about being Sox fans published somewhere?
Thursday marks the end of the most difficult stretch of the Cubs schedule. The Cubs (and to a lesser extent the Astros) will be coasting from the middle of July for the rest of the season, while the Cardinals will be hitting the hardest part of their schedule in September. If the race is tight going into September, the Cards will be left in the dust because of their opponents and you just know that if there’s an injury in the bullpen The Genius will use Morris, Williams and Carpenter for long relief between starts. And if the Astros don’t fire Jimy I like the Cubs chances.
Steve, you’re confusing the results of being 4 games back, with being 4 games back.
4 games, in and of itself, isn’t a huge difference. The result of being 4 games back could be.
It’s like saying you’re neighbor has earned 25,000 dollars selling widgets and you have earned 24,382 (the same % as 4/162) bucks selling the same widgets. That’s really not that far apart. Now if the person to sell 25k got a bonus of a million dollars, the result of being 2% back is huge.
Oh yes, Steve, one of the reasons that I don’t care about the Sox is that they play in the American League, which has an abomination called the "designated hitter". I understand that you weren’t around before this rule was imposed, but if it had come to the National League then I think that not only would I not be a Cub fan, I wouldn’t be a baseball fan. It’s kind of like the aluminum bat. Someday they will use it in the majors, and it will change the game.
Cubbiebluestew,
I doubt they will allow the aluminum bat in the bigs. Bryce Florie is exhibit A. The dented camera from Jose Canseco’s WS blast vs the Reds is exhibit B. People would get killed on the field. Can you imagine the damage McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Thomas, Griffey, et al could do with a metal bat??? 187 would be the new OPS….
Unless you’re talking about making an aluminum perform like a wood and just switching for durability issues…
Reasons Sox fans don’t like Sammy:
— He’s the one who got away. BoSox fans never took a shining to the Babe in his pinstripes, and that was in pre-Nasty America
Reasons fans of the White Sox and 28 or 29 other MLB teams don’t like Sosa:
— His game is the antithesis of exciting, Sandberg-style baseball (see Sammy swing for fence! on any pitch! on any count! in any situation!)
— He showboats after homering no matter the game situation, showing as much joy, peace-signing, kisses, and hopping whether he just put the team ahead, added to a lead, or cut a 10-run deficit down to a 9-run deficit
— He tends to hit looooong singles after admiring long drives and doing the bunny hop, then realizing that the ball is still in play
— He has used a corked bat in a game situation
Cubbiebluestew, I can’t answer #87. Maybe we can add that to the next census.
As for the "abomination" that is the DH, I apologize on behalf of the DH-using American League, the NCAA, minor league baseball, high schools across America, the Pony Leagues, etc.
At least Esteban Loaiza is on your side, as he probably wishes the Cubs had played without their DH yesterday, as Sammy jacked him yesterday — twice!
I agree with you on the showboating. It’s why I don’t like Sosa.
But so what if he’s the one who got away? Did Cubs fans boo Lou Brock? I seem to remember Palmeiro being cheered two years ago in his return to Wrigley. I made my displeasure over the Palmeiro deal felt every time I got near Jim Frey. In fact, I hurled insults at Frey at the past Cubs Convention.
Booing Sosa because he got away is the perfect example of Sox fans inferiority complexes.
I was good, but I’m no Sammy Sosa. I couldn’t beat you singlehandedly, after all.
Is it the "he got away from us" factor that makes Sox fans boo Sosa? I think it has as much to do with the other factors for Sammy Hating that I mentioned.
Robin Ventura was never booed.
Albert Belle was booed just for being Albert Belle, before, during, and after his Sox years.
And next year, we won’t boo Magglio.
BTW Steve, I hope you’re not equating Sox fans actions with those of "long suffering" Red Sox fans.
With me, that doesn’t make it right.
I hate Red Sox fans almost as much as I hate White Sox fans. Red Sox fans act like they are the only loyal, traditional baseball fans in the country.
And they count those two smug, lame actors among their own.
I was never all that good.
Herpes, the Babe Ruth-Sammy Sosa comparison was a matter of precedent. You know, to show that White Sox fans aren’t the only people in history to be pissed that someone they traded away became such a prolific hitter.
btw man, are you sure you have any love in your soul? You’re hating on White Sox fans, BoSox fans, "smug, lame actors," etc. Get some Valtrex!
I am that good.
I think what it comes down to is that Sox fans hate Sosa because he got away — to the Cubs.
I’ve never been able to stand Red Sox fans…They act like they invented baseball. I openly root for the Yanks over Boston every time they play.
Here are two huge reasons for my disdain of White Sox fans:
When I was a little kid, I would ride my bike around the neighborhood, innocently wearing my Cubs cap. When I would ride past a certain Sox fans house, who was 20 years my elder, he would viciously attack me with verbal abuse aimed at my Cubs hat. Some things just stick with you.
Then, last year, my oldest son wanted to see Gary Matthews Jr with the Padres, since he was nice to my kid when he was a Cub. On the spur of the moment, we went to The Cell to see a Fathers Day eve matchup between SD & The Sox.
My two year old was wearing his Cubs windbreaker. There were no less than 15 gutless insults hurled at an innocent two year old for having the audacity to wear his Cubs windbreaker.
But, don’t worry. I’ll never go to that dump again. Nor will my sons.
Wouldn’t it be cool to see the Cubs sign me to take Alou’s spot?
And wouldn’t it be cool to then hear Sox fans boo me?
Wouldn’t it be cool to see the outfield upper deck that would have to be built on to me so the Cubs could afford to sign Magglio while still turning a profit?
Nah, we’d just add more of these to pay Magglio. And Beltran!
Hey dad, we’ll go to any ballpark we want, you overbearing control freak.
Sorry pal; Alou already makes $9.5MM, $11.5MM if you include his buyout. K-Gonz makes $5.5MM. Clement makes $6MM. Grudzielanek makes $2.75MM. That’s nearly $26MM for 4 players that will NOT be back on the Cubs next year. They can afford Magglio AND John Smoltz and not break a sweat. Ask Fat Jerry if he could pull that off.
Now that Herpes has sworn off attending any of our games, we cannot possibly afford to bring Mags back.
Who ever thought someone would miss herpes?
As an aside, isn’t it nice to have an actual owner to put in the Monty Burns role? Somehow, yelling at Tribune Tower just isn’t as gratifying when we do dumb things like let Maddux go. And we all remember how kind Cub fans were to Greg the first few times he came back to pitch against the Cubs.
This race in the NL Central will boil down to the Cubs making some key trades and getting rid of some hated losers. First of all, get rid of Goodwin, Bako, and Ordonez. We shouldn’t have even signed Badwin and Gabor after last season. They basically proved they sucked last year. Ordonez has been an even bigger joke. He can’t even hit over .100 and i thought Badwin and Gabor were bad hovering around .200. Secondly, it’s time for Jim Hendry to work some of his trading magic like last year. Yes, Jim, you might have to give up the likes of Farns, Patterson, Grud, Gonzo, and even Clement, but these are some of the personnel you might need to deal in order to contend for that title. We need some veterans that will get the job done. (Examples from last year’s team-Kenny Lofton & Eric Karros). They are the caliber of players you need. A bullpen pitcher, a quality backup catcher, a good shortstop, and another utility player off the bench. These are the final pieces to the puzzle. Now let’s go for it and go after that World Series title!
I think he ment his sons don’t want to go not that he wouldn’t let them
Sorry I missed the festivites today (I was, you know, working). Of course, next time there’s a gamecast during work hours I’ll be here.
Anyway, other Steve, didn’t Albert Belle use a corked bat while he was a White Sox? … er, a White Sock? Sammy is a guy who’s happy to be in the game and helping his team. Sure, he gets a kick out of hopping and doing the kiss-the-hand, hit-the-chest thing, but is that such a horrid fault? I guess I can like a guy just because he’s a fine ball player. He’s jacked over 500 homeruns. That’s a fair talent, and I know that neither you nor I could do so in real-game situations.
My grandpa took me to a number of Cubs games when I was a kid, but I didn’t really make up my mind as to which team I liked until one day in high school. I was home sick from school, and it was one of those days where the Cubs and Sox were both playing. The Cubs were a noon game, I think, and the Sox were at night. I watched both games, listening to the commentators. And–after a bit of thought–I decided that I could never put up with watching game after game with Hawk making the call. He was just too damn annoying or quiet, depending on the situation.
Since I’m a guy who rarely goes to games (though I’ve already been to two this year and I’m going on the 4th of July), the TV broadcast is important to me.
Of course, I’m now one of those guys who turns down the TV’s volume and listens to Pat and Ron. There are days, though, when I love to turn up the TV just to make fun of Chip. Oh well.
No, I got caught corking my bat while on the Indians. And as we all know, someone who gets caught doing that would never do so again.
Did any of you folks realize that I got married over the weekend?
If not, you certainly heard about it during the first 35 minutes of SportsCentral tonight, as I name-dropped B List celebrities who were in attendance.
Does anyone know if my bride was there?
Maybe it’s just a factor of living in Central Illinois all my life, but the Cardinals are THE much bigger rival to the Cubs in my mind than the White Sox are. Now, granted, I don’t really care for the White Sox, but I don’t dislike them any more than say the Yankees or the Marlins or the Braves or the Astros. I’m sure the rivalry is big to those that live around Chicago, but to the millions of Cubs fans that live outside the immediate area, I’m pretty sure a strong majority of them hate the Cardinals more by a pretty big margin.
Just my thoughts on the whole thing…
Man, you guys were busy since I left. Anyway, thanks for actually answering my question Steve. Nice that we could have a discussion on this topic without resorting to the usual name calling (well, most of us).
Hey, Jack Wilson just ran around the bases and the Cardinals’ "vaunted" defense made two errors while he did so and we won! So quit complaining about us for a little bit, all right. We just did you a favor.
And I drove in the only Cardinal run. Say, isn’t my arm due for a few torn ligaments soon?
:::You can have that one season of absolute excellence, or you can know that just about every year, your team truly has a shot to get to the playoffs, and hence onwards to the World Series. (Versus just hoping they win.):::
Fine. Apply this logic going forward and you should be a Cubs fan. Here’s the core of the team I’ll be cheering for for the next 4 years:
Prior
Wood
Zambrano
Lee
Ramirez
That’s a solid core. And with an owner willing to spend now, and $40 million in salary clearing in the next two years, I expect this team to contend for the next 4 to 8 years.
The White Sox, for the next 4 years are guaranteed the following players:
Frank Thomas
All the others are free agency eligible during that time. And expect modt of them to leave.
Now, which team truly "has a shot to get to the playoffs, and hence onwards to the World Series" for the rest of the decade?
Welcome to the North Side.
Yeah, building around the infield corners and starting rotation is a sure-fire strategy….
Jack McDowell would have been good, but he was ruined by steroids.
And by the way, the Sox didn’t build around Fernandez. He couldn’t wait to get his fat, sloppy ass away from Reinsdorf.
That Prior kid is a promising pitcher, and it’s a good thing, since he doesn’t know squat about baseball history.
I pitched six full seasons for the Sox and won 79 games before exercising my free agent rights to get closer to my beloved Pollo Loco stands in Miami. That’s the same period of servitude Prior will have to play out before seeking his fortunes in free agency.
But unlike Prior, I never hit the DL until my ninth year in the bigs after being put through the Jimmy Leyland starting pitcher meat grinder — a machine that works a whole lot like the BakerMeister125, except the PAP concept didn’t come along until after my career was over….
I pitched for the Dodgers the other night. My fastball was slower than some guys’ changeups.
And you point would be _____, Ventura-san?
You don’t know wa, Mr. Zero
Hey, we’ve thrown one since we’ve won one. YEEHAW!
Hey, you gotta get in to the Series before you can throw the Series. As always, I wish the Cubs the best.
BC, Can I borrow one of your balls?
Since you apparently have no use for them.
Intrepid reader# 118: Frank Thomas, Robin Ventura, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, and Wilson Alvarez
Yeah, building around the infield corners and starting rotation is a sure-fire strategy….
———————————-
Well, I think they did OK with that core.
They contended from 1990-1994, and were ruined by Terry Bevington after that.
In 1990, they snuck up on Oakland, and hung in there late in the season before the A’s pulled off trades for Willie McGee and Harold Baines to win the division by 9 games. They won a measely 94 games.
In 1991, Minnesota got really hot in the middle of the season, but the Sox still won 87 games and finished 2nd.
In 1992, they had on off year, but they were in the playoffs in 1993, amazingly lasting 6 games with Toronto despite no one hitting in the ALCS. And we all know that they were World Series bound in 1994, right Sox fans? (by the way, New York had the best record in the AL when the strike happened)
Anyway, that’s 2 division titles (they were awarded the AL Central in ’94) and two second-place finishes (both would have been good enough for playoff appearances under the current format).
Not bad, especially considering that if they didn’t make one particular late March trade in 1992, they would have been able to place these numbers in their lineup during their division-winning seasons:
.261, 33 homers, 93 RBI, 36 SB in 1993
.300, 25, 70, 22 in 1994
So I’d say they didn’t do too badly.