Winning basketball games is one thing. Getting the good players you need to win basketball games is another. I?ll have a thing or two on the Cubs, but first with the Illini basketball update from yours truly.
With Ron Turner?s football bunch once again hitting the skids in Chambana, the focus is pretty much already on the Illinois basketball team.
Expectations are very high for the defending Big Ten Regular Season Champions. One preseason magazine, Lindy?s (I have to question anything written in something that sounds like it is more like a bridal dress booklet than a college basketball magazine, but I digress), has given the Illini a preseason #1 ranking.
But, while the 2004-05 season certainly looks good, there are two big storm clouds that could possibly strike the program. The first is the health of star guard Dee Brown. And the second is the inability of coach Bruce Weber to get the ?big one? in recruiting. Let?s take on both problems.
Speculation started earlier this summer about Brown possibly red-shirting. This came about when Brown didn?t recover from a stress fracture in his right ankle as quickly as originally thought. However, the latest reports have been more optimistic about the Brown injury situation. It looks like Brown will be able to play pain-free when the season starts. No word on if the Illini trainers are getting advice from the trainers at Wrigley however.
The second problem isn?t a short-term one, but for the younger fans (Read: Me) it?s a concern. Illinois fans seem to have developed an inferiority complex that puts those White Sox and Mets fans to shame?
Why? Just a few of the reasons: Illinois gets to the Final Four in ?89, the Bruce Pearl fiasco hits. Illinois gets to the Elite Eight against Arizona a couple years back, Bill Walton calls the Illini players names on national TV and six players get fouled out. Illinois gets to the Sugar Bowl, and the football team hasn?t remembered how to play defense since. And that doesn’t even get into the mess of the U of I being a non-Chicago school. Hey, I’m not a psychological expert. I only try to play one on Desipio.
Add that inferiority complex to the fact that Illinois NEVER gets the guys it wants in basketball recruiting. Maggette, Livingston, and Villanueva are all recent big misses for the Illini program. And, you can add Julian Wright to that list, as the Chicago-area prep star chose Kansas over Illinois and two other schools recently.
And, to make the situation EVEN WORSE (I?m trying not to make it sound like we are doomed for all eternity, but this is just my own personal psychological read on a majority of the Illini fan base), we have Bruce Weber at the helm. His in-game coaching prowess is very strong. Taking a team that didn?t want to follow him or listen to him or learn from him last year to a conference title and a Sweet 16 berth was almost miraculous.
However, Weber came from SIU, possibly the only school in the universe with an even BIGGER inferiority complex than the U of I. If you have an inferiority complex (And, trust me, they do) to the U of I and Central Illinois, well, then there are issues there nobody can solve. It?s probably twice as bad as the inferiority complex Springfield and Bloomington and Champaign and Peoria and the rest of Central Illinois have towards Chicago. But I have once again digressed.
Anyhow, the fact Weber came from SIU means that, to most Illini fans, he hasn?t really had to recruit Big Ten and higher-caliber players for some time now, because a Big Ten school considered almost none of the guys that would be recruited to SIU by Weber. The only consensus Top 100 recruit to go to the Missouri Valley Conference (the conference SIU is in) in years was Matt Shaw, who SIU got to commit earlier this year. Essentially, Weber either never recruited or never signed a Top 100 national (Future references will just be ?Top 100?) recruit while at SIU. And even “just” Top 100 recruits won?t get the Illini where they should go.
But Wright was the third big miss in three tries for Weber while at Illinois. Shaun Livingston said no to go to Duke. But at least he skipped out on them to go to the Clippers, who probably would be beaten by Duke, but that?s beside the point. Luke Zeller, an Indiana big man, decided to verbal to Notre Dame instead of coming to Illinois.
And Wright not only had the gall to say no to the Illini, but to verbal to go to Kansas, and the guy Weber once declared dead, Bill Self. Needless to say Bruce, that obit was about as fake as those CBS Bush National Guard memos.
(In case you were wondering, Livingston was considered the #1 recruit in the nation and was from Peoria, Zeller was ranked in the 40’s on average on national lists, and Wright was ranked as high as #5 in the nation in his class. These guys aren’t all from the same class, but this is still a bad 1-2-3 punch for Illinois to take.)
So, here we are. Weber has been blessed with a very talented current team. But the future looks cloudy at best. Weber has had five commitments so far while at Illinois, and only one, 2004 commit Shaun Pruitt, has been a consensus Top 100 recruit. There was only one guy on last year?s team (Jack Ingram, a transfer from Tulsa) who was not on at least one list of Top 100 recruits when they signed to Illinois. At the start of next season, there will be at least four (Calvin Brock, Marcus Arnold who is a transfer from Illinois State, David Palmer*, and Jamar Smith).
*= Palmer was on at least two national Top 100 lists earlier in his high school career, but injuries had pushed him below 100 on those lists when Illinois signed him.
So, the problem seems to be a disconnect between getting the guys Illinois needs to take the next step in national prominence or falling back into becoming the University of Iowa-East or Purdue Western University.
But all these worries may not materialize. A great run this season would allow recruits to see Illinois at the top of the college basketball heap. Weber, who has had no problems identifying the top talent, just needs to connect with them. Weber doesn?t have a lot of charisma, but he wouldn?t need it if he gets this year?s team to a level they could go. Think of him as Jim Calhoun, only with the ability to get you a free grill! Man, that joke went nowhere did it? I’ll move on…
Let?s hope that happens. If not, I fear for the program?s future. I?ve already seen one too many program at Illinois fall to the wayside because of an inability to bring in good talent and then coach them well (Yep, that?s you Ron Turner). I don?t worry about the latter when it comes to Illinois basketball, I worry about the former. And, I don?t think it should be something to be glossed over, given a happy face, or ignored.
To conclude, my point is that at some point he needs to prove he can bring in a big-time big-name recruit. He?s 0-for-3 so far. And you know how well I react to someone going 0-for-3 when they shouldn?t be doing that.
A couple North Side Notes?
The Cubs? sweep over the Pirates leaves the North Siders both where they want to be and where they don?t.
While still leading in the Wild Card race in the loss column, the Cubs? road trip ends with a three-gamer at Shea Stadium. While the Mets haven?t played well in a while, and their manager is to be fired at the end of the season, that series still puts a big fear into me. 1969 Redux wouldn?t be fun.
Mark Prior?s stuff has been good most of 2004, it?s just his command and control have been way off. Yesterday however wasn?t that encouraging. In the bad second inning, Prior?s fastball didn?t get above 91. Pitchers can have days without their best stuff, but if Prior is losing speed on his fastball along with his control, then the Cubs are in a real bind whenever he takes the hill at this point. I think Prior will return to form in 2005, but this season has to be frustrating for Prior.
—–
That’s it. Nothing left in these writing (Or is it typing? Now I’m just darn confused.) fingers. It’s a day early, but I hope you enjoy your weekend.
…I’m an assclown…
Don’t worry, I will suck complete ass at Notre Dame. I love Washington, IN (armpit of America) and will get home sick when I don’t smell the snitch of it. Trust me, I suck!
B.C.,
How do you attend any classes if you’re always out on the ledge?
Weber has been on campus in Champaign for a little over a year. That’s not very long when you consider some coaches have been in with these recruits since junior high. While at Carbondale, Weber probably didn’t make contact with the same kind of players he is now that he’s at the U of I. Let the guy get another year of coaching and getting to know kids under his belt and then start pushing the recruiting panic button.
The easiest way to snag the big name recruits is to continue winning and follow the Indy to Chicago to St. Louis road to the Final Four this year.
Did I also miss where the guy won the outright Big Ten title in his first year?
The guy’s a good coach and judging by his sandwich handing out abilities, he’s good people.
CP, I’m not questioning his coaching ability. He’s proven his worth in that area with last year’s team alone, in my opinion.
I worry about his recruiting ability, however.
Regardless of people being huge Weber supporters or not, I don’t see how anyone can say recruiting is on the “upswing” or even staying level if players like Livingston, Zeller, and Wright are being missed out on.
#4 has been edited from what originally was posted to include an extra point.
Just so you know…
Sorry, it’s still way to early for me to get excited about college basketball.
I won’t allow any references to that one character, former #6 (Or should I just say Michigan?), in my articles…
If Andy lets you do it in his, that’s fine by me. But not when I have the eraser.
BC,
In my opinion, the recruiting comes with time and continued success. Judging Weber’s recruiting abilities after one year is like taking a survey to find out who America’s favorite baseball team is by asking five people at a Devil Rays game. It’s not a big enough sample size.
Livingston – Lost out to Duke after only being on the job for a few months. Livingston is now a Clipper. He wouldn’t have played for Illinois even if he signed. I can’t fault Weber’s recruiting on that one.
Zeller – This one I question a little more. Brett Dawson of The News-Gazette was pretty sure Zeller was coming here, and Notre Dame hoops isn’t exactly John Wooden’s UCLA teams (even though they beat the Illini in the tourney in 03). Zeller stayed in his homestate, so it’s not like we lost a sure thing in a kid from somewhere in Illinois.
Wright – Ok, I see your point here. It would’ve helped to close the deal, but Self is a pretty good salesman. It’s not like we lost him to DePaul (one of his other options) or UIC or Chicago State.
If next year’s recruiting class is bad or the team chokes this season and has a negative effect on recruiting, by all means start screaming for help.
Correction – When Prior takes the bump.
I am a bigger assclown than BC
Don’t worry. I’m going to be at Shea for at least two of the games, and if I see any mother fucker with a black cat, I’ll drop his ass Bruce Lee style.
CP, I understand your point.
The recruiting issue with Weber, I feel, is not in identifying the talent he needs to bring in (I feel he’s done that time and time again through his career). The issue is, he’s not facing Creighton and Wichita State and Indiana State now. He’s facing Duke, Michigan State, Wisconsin, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and the rest. And he needs to show he can beat them even somewhat consistently. Can I think he can? Sure. When will this happen? I don’t know.
The Weber critics, which I don’t necessarily consider myself one of, I don’t think they think Weber is a bad recruiter. I think they know deep down he’s trying to be really good. But, until they see it, they are going to be pessimistic.
Anyway, a nice recruiting positive needs to happen somewhat soon. We can’t keep spending precious resources on the Livingstons and the Wrights of the world if we can’t win them.
A couple of criticisms, hopefully they’ll fall into the category of constructive.
(1) Odd timing for an article like this, though I realize Wright committed recently. We are two weeks into the college football season, one week into the NFL, and the Cubs are in a five-team wild card race. Not really the time one’s thoughts turn to Illini hoops.
(2) I think your premise is flawed. Unless you are Duke and maybe one or two other schools, you will not win consistently with Top 10 or Top 25 recruits. They are increasingly "one and done" players if they even make it campus at all. In that time, they mostly try to impress the NBA scouts and hurt the team; of course, Carmelo Anthony is an obvious exception. For the most part schools like Illinois and Wisconsin (my alma mater) are going to have more success getting the second or third tier of recruit–guys who will stay for three or four years, buy into the program, and help build a team. That way, they only have to replace one or two parts every year, rather than having a new "top dog" every year who demands the ball, etc.
(3) Save all the parentheticals. They clutter things, they’re not funny, and they distract.
Thanks for your thoughts Tom. They are very constructive.
I am a little confused by the third point however.
First, which of the parentheticals are particularly bad to you?
Most of my writing here on Desipio, along with at least some of Andy’s (In my humble opinion), are built on the witty aside.
Secondly, on the timing…
The timing doesn’t really exclude the discussion of a topic. ESPN talks about Barry Bonds or Tom Brady or Tiger Woods even when its not necessarily their times of year.
Heck, the Presidential election has had the discussion basically focus in on stuff from the Vietnam War, not on the issues of 2004 and beyond. I understand your timing point, I just don’t particularly think it matters what time we discuss the issue.
However, I do appreciate the comments being presented in the way you presented them, it was much more civil than most of the other critics here. I will take into consideration your points and try to adjust my articles in the future.
BC –
First, get a thicker skin if you want to be a writer. Do you think Mariotti asks his millions of critics to be ‘constructive’ in their criticisms? No. He just keeps putting out crap with no regard to facts, truth or integrity.
Second: "Mark Prior’s stuff has been good most of 2004, it’s just his command and control have been way off."
Huh?
I got news for you. Command and control IS STUFF. If a guy can throw any pitch, at any time for a strike, that is command and control, a.k.a "stuff". If a guy can throw a 12 to 6 breaking ball, but can’t get it in the same zip code as home plate, he doesn’t have good stuff. He sucks. (See Rick Ankiel) Or if a guy can throw 101 and blow up radar guns, but somehow finds a way to hang bad sliders that get ripped, that’s not good stuff. He sucks. (See the Farns)
Prior had ‘stuff’ last year and he doesn’t this year – yet. He’s still going to be one of the greatest ever. If you, or anyone, is hopping off the Prior bandwagon and is selling Prior rookie cards at a discount – I’m buying.
"No. He just keeps putting out crap with no regard to facts, truth or integrity."
What in the world? I hate Mariotti too, but even I don’t think he ignores facts or truth…
Integrity I’m not so sure on…
But, to even seemingly imply those attributes with my writings disappoints me. I hope that was not your intention.
Secondly, you’re entitled to your definition of "stuff", but what I was referring to was the speed and movement of the pitches. Prior seems to have had that down most of this season. It’s just he can’t throw it in the same state half the time.
And, I’m most definitely not jumping off the Prior bandwagon. Again, I don’t know where that one came from.
Here are CP’s predictions for football this weekend for IlliniBoard.com:
http://illinois.theinsiders.com/2/295529.html
I’ve got to give mad props to anybody that starts a prediction article with a Varsity Blues theme.
Thumbs up to CP!
I hate going to Shea. It’s a toilet bowl.
A big, purple toilet bowl.
In Queens.
Suburb of Brooklyn.
When you can’t make it out to Chicago to catch a game, you’ll do anything. Or at least, I will. That includes getting hopelessly lost in Pittsburgh (and then camping out in sub degree weather), driving to Montreal (and spending more than a day amongst *shudder* French speaking people), and yes, going to Shea Stadium.
But if the Cubs pony up and make it to the post season, maybe I’ll get to Chicago then.
Are when there are two or more independent clauses which are not properly joined by a semicolon or conjunction. The sentence cited has three independent clauses, which are not properly joined because you have to use a semicolong with three independent clauses. In any event, you couldn’t possibly have been pround of that crappy sentence.
Now…we know Hate and Envy are two sides of the same coin.
I’d probably be a better comparison with the heaping helping of parentheticals where coherent writing would normally be.
(I wouldn’t have been able to comprehend "Top 100" without the parenthetical on that.)
Pay the man, Shirley.
Screw Illini basketball, we need more articles about me, and how good I am. And I am DAMN good.
Thanks for the "mad props", BC. Hang on, "mad props" are a good thing, right?
#22, references to that movie character will be edited or deleted if I see it again. I don’t ask for much. All I ask for is nothing derogatory and at least somewhat constructive criticism. I know, that’s more than what others ask for…
#21, "pround"? I’m not one to be picky, but if you are going to criticize me at least make sure you are spelling things right.
E-Ramis, you are DAMN good. But Andy is going to be all over that story here in a little bit. I guess I was one day too early with my article.
CP, yes, "mad props" are a good thing. I’m sure you knew that, but in case you didn’t I’m letting you know.
Why do all of B.C.’s articles yield subsequent posts by the author in which he does a line-by-line dissection and defense of his Journalism 101-level article?
His counterpoint arguments are obsessive and picayune, but what really stretches out the foolishness is his fixation with deleting and editing posts.
Did we lose a war? Here I thought I lived in America.
B.C.’s articles prove yet again that his compulsion to shout down voices of dissent or criticism (whether presented in a palatable manner to him or not) outweigh his ability to fashion a cogent article.
I fully expect this post to be edited for content or removed outright.
Well stated, JH… Bonus points for ‘picayune.’
For the record 7 comments have been edited or deleted from this article thus far (which is 7 more than I’ve edited or deleted in my entire Desipio career), and now I’m dying to know the name of the movie character that’s drawing BC’s ire…
In fact if you know it, email me….
You won’t be disappointed.
Sorry, don’t know the movie character. I can only hazard a guess that it’s Rick Moranis’s Louis Tully from Ghost Busters.
This’ll surely be deleted once B.C. gets finished looking up "picayune."
Good work, Brian Crozier. I envy your ability vaporize voices of dissent. If it weren’t for that pesky U.S. Constitution that I’m usually able to wipe my ass with most days, I’d be able to do the same.
JH, having a dissenting opinion or criticism = arrogance. Whereas censoring any such dissent isn’t arrogant at all.
That’s how it works when you cruise Jacksonville, IL and engage in deep thought with The Cruiser Crozier.
Little Myself. Ittsy-Bitsy, teeny-weeny, first person singular, objective, pronoun.
I don’t know how in the world Jacksonville, Illinois, got involved in this whole thing…
What was not "cogent" about my article JH?
If you are going to criticize in vague generalities, that’s fine. But it’s not fair, either to myself or to the other readers.
Run-on sentences such as "Shaun Livingston said no to go to Duke, but at least he skipped out on them to go to the Clippers, who probably would be beaten by Duke, but that’s beside the point" are not a sign of good writing.
B.C., look at the comments of the posts above. Clearly, many were unswayed by your monthly masterbatory Illini article.
After wading through the witty asides, you seem to charge that bringing in some Top 100 (national, as opposed to Argentinan–thanks for the parenthetical clarification) will cure what ails the Illini. Then you cut the legs off the whole article with "But all these worries may not materialize" as you wrap it up with a cutesy bow.
The "this might happen; but it might not" argument just doesn’t sway this reader. That’s just me, though. Please edit this post as you see fit, so as to control my words and change my mind.
#17, technically, that was not a run-on sentence. I have been told before that if a sentence never deviated enough from the preceding parts of the sentence, it is not a run-on sentence, no matter the length of the sentence. (Of course, you could argue that preceding sentence is also a run-on sentence, but I am just trying to convey why I feel it was not a run-on sentence, flying in the face of the statement in Post #17. Oh, crap, I did it again, I can’t believe it, maybe I should quit thinking all of this stuff to write, and putting it into one condensed version of wordage, in order to keep the reader interested, so that they don’t get off the computer and take a nap….. Shoot! I just can’t restrain myself!)
—–
However, I must admit that particular sentence didn’t look that great after I read it again. And, to avoid a huge controversy, I edited that portion of my article.
The movie character in question is the little short bald guy that tags around beind me.
"B.C., look at the comments of the posts above. Clearly, many were unswayed by your monthly masterbatory Illini article."
First, "masterbatory"? Where in the world did you get that one from?
Second, my writing isn’t necessarily to sway anybody. I give my viewpoint, the reader reads it and then decides for themselves. And, if there is a counter-point that is a civil, I will have no problem discussing it.
—–
"After wading through the witty asides, you seem to charge that bringing in some Top 100 (national, as opposed to Argentinan–thanks for the parenthetical clarification) will cure what ails the Illini. Then you cut the legs off the whole article with "But all these worries may not materialize" as you wrap it up with a cutesy bow."
They won’t materialize if Illinois has very successful seasons in the next year or two. However, if those successes don’t come, then we are in trouble, in my opinion. The fact Weber has only brought in one guy out of five (Four recruits and one transfer) that was considered consensus Top 100 troubles me. Now, at the moment he is recruiting a guard named Austin Jackson. Jackson is considered a top 50 or 60 guy by a lot of gurus. Some have him ranked as high as the upper 30’s. Getting him would help, but still wouldn’t solve this disconnect in recruiting I think Weber has at the moment.
—–
"…so as to control my words and change my mind."
I am not trying to do that. Only if I feel something is really out of line will I edit it.
Several of the posts so far have been edited, but I think 3 or 4 of the 7 Jake mentioned earlier have been mine in order to add points or "fix" them up to read a tad better.
Newsflash!
The Illini will have a very successful season; or they won’t!
Discuss.
Following up on the parentheticals:
"One preseason magazine, Lindy’s (I have to question anything written in something that sounds like it is more like a bridal dress booklet than a college basketball magazine, but I digress)…."
* I’d argue vehemently that this is not witty
"And, to make the situation EVEN WORSE (I’m trying not to make it sound like we are doomed for all eternity, but this is just my own personal psychological read on a majority of the Illini fan base), we have Bruce Weber at the helm."
* You frequently seem to want to state an opinion but cover yourself if you turn out to be wrong
"The only consensus Top 100 recruit to go to the Missouri Valley Conference (the conference SIU is in) in years was Matt Shaw, who SIU got to commit earlier this year."
* When you mention that Shaw went to SIU, it becomes obvious that they are in the MVC.
"Essentially, Weber either never recruited or never signed a Top 100 national (Future references will just be “Top 100â€) recruit while at SIU."
* Statement of the obvious
"(In case you were wondering, Livingston was considered the #1 recruit in the nation and was from Peoria, Zeller was ranked in the 40’s on average on national lists, and Wright was ranked as high as #5 in the nation in his class. These guys aren’t all from the same class, but this is still a bad 1-2-3 punch for Illinois to take.)"
* This information would have been better used by integrating where it is relevant, not dumping it all at the end
"I’ve already seen one too many program at Illinois fall to the wayside because of an inability to bring in good talent and then coach them well (Yep, that’s you Ron Turner)."
* Give the readers some credit for being able to fill in the blank. It’s the equivalent of a joke that you have to explain–you may get a polite chuckle, but no one really laughs at a joke you have to explain.
"That’s it. Nothing left in these writing (Or is it typing? Now I’m just darn confused.) fingers."
*Again, if it’s supposed to be funny it’s not. Whatever it’s supposed to be, as far as I can tell, it’s not.
B.C., you asked for particulars as to what was not cogent about your article.
I’ll wait while you look up cogent again…
The article–despite your protestations that you don’t write to sway people–does not fashion a reasonable argument since you wave it all off dismissively at the end.
Thanks for clearing up that you only present your viewpoint, instead of a wishy-washy opinion.
I don’t think I dismissed my points at the end. But that’s up to each person’s own judgment I guess.
These issues will arise if Illinois doesn’t meet expectations.
If they do or exceed them, then the success will equal better recruiting.
As I noted in my article, the problem has not been with Weber identifying the talent, it has simply been in landing it…
And the last thing I think I have ever been on this site is "wishy-washy".
The Cubs are either good or they’re bad. Illinois might be good or they’ll destroy their program. How can anyone even come close to calling me wishy-washy? Well, I can see your point, but still…well maybe you’re right.
Indecision may or may not be B.C.’s problem. Ambiguous? Well, yes and no…
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