The only thing missing from the three hour power nap the Cubs took yesterday in a 6-0 loss to Arizona was Dusty Baker handing out pillows before the guys took the field.
Because there is some kind of law that the Cubs make every soft tossing lefty look like an uncircumsized Sandy Koufax, Brad Halsey had the fun of pantsing the Cubs yesterday afternoon. The loss was supposed to not be a big deal because Len Kasper told us that the Cubs “wouldn’t lose any ground because Washington lost again.” Only, the Cubs did lose ground because the Astros won and put another game between themselves and our erstwhile heroes.
The Nats road uniforms have blue hats and a toe tag, so the Astros are the only ones worth paying attention to. Even if that means you have to look at the Beege.
The Cubs did what they always do when they suffer a senseless and gut punch-like loss, they dug into the junk drawer and found something shiny to distract us with. This time it’s a potential trade for Corey Patterson’s Domincan twin, Alfonso Soriano.
While Desipio has learned (I always wanted to write something like that) that the Cubs are again chatting up Theo Epstein in the final hours before a trade deadline (this time the Sox want to fix their “chemistry” by finding something good to replace Manny Ramirez with), rumors persist that the Cubs can have Alfonso Soriano if they really want him.
Don’t believe any rumor that has Todd Walker going to Texas. The Rangers did want Walker to come there this past offseason, but they just wanted him to keep second base warm for a year until Ian Kinsler was ready. Ian’s ready. Soriano will play left field for the Cubs, and given his dislike of Buck Showalter, it’s very likely that like A-Rod before him, he’ll accomodate a position change to get out of town.
But Hendry’s thinking bigger than Soriano…he’s thinking Manny Ramirez. The problem isn’t that the Cubs and Red Sox need a third team to make the deal happen, the problem is that they need the Reds to be that third team. The deal being discussed would send Rich Hill and Corey Patterson from the Cubs to the Reds, Adam Dunn and Kent Mercker to the Red Sox and Manny Ramirez to the Cubs and minor league pitcher Jon Papelbon to the Reds.
The problem is going to be getting the Reds to do anything.
The Red Sox are sick and tired of Manny, and last week when he hid in the Fenway scoreboard and nearly missed a pitch, and then SI reported Manny wanted a trade…again. But the Sox are not in a position to get rid of Manny without replacing his bat. There is also not a fit on another team where they could just trade Manny for that stick. The Cubs don’t have anything to deal for Manny, but they have plenty to deal to the Reds for Dunn.
The Reds don’t want to trade Dunn to the Cubs, and they want a Major League caliber player and two top pitching prospects .
So this deal fits everybody’s needs. The Red Sox replace Manny with a younger player and a guy who can approximate his offensive value, and they get a lefty reliever (even if it is Mercker).
The Reds get the value they identified they needed for Dunn, and they don’t have to send him within the division to the Cubs.
The Cubs get a great left fielder and we can read stories for a week full of bullshit about how Dusty will be able to “communicate” with Manny.
Are there drawbacks? Of course there are. Manny’s effort makes E-ramis look like Pete Rose. His defense makes Jason Dubois look like Ichiro. But he can hit. No, not hit, he can rake.
If the Reds back out, then Hendry will turn to a lesser deal for Soriano, and the headaches that having an outfield made up of two second basemen and Jeromy Burnitz will cause.
While Soriano is a better power hitter than Todd Walker, he’s not a better hitter, and he’s not even a defensive upgrade over Todd (which is sad, actually), so this deal doesn’t have a dramatic impact on the Cubs’ offense if it’s simply Soriano at second and Walker to the bench or someplace else. The only way this trade gives the Cubs an immediate jolt is if Soriano goes to left.
The reason Hendry is intrigued by Soriano or Ramirez is because he has shrewdly positioned the Cubs to where they will have money to burn in the offseason. The only big contracts the Cubs will be committed to after the final game of this season are those given to Kerry Wood, Derrek Lee and E-ramis. Lee and E-ramis are both signed to Cubs’ friendly deals, while Wood…uh..isn’t. He has one more year of Greg Maddux at a big number and that’s it. Mark Prior is still coasting along on the first deal he signed after leaving USC and Carlos Zambrano will cash in for the first time in arbitration, but he’ll still be a good value.
So Hendry’s got lots of money to spend but nobody to spend it on. The free agent class is void of impact offensive players, meaning the only way for Hendry to use his cash surplus to help the Cubs’ 2006 offense is to do it via trade either this weekend or next winter.
Hendry’s going to make a trade of this type, either now or when the snow is on the ground, and honestly, given the immediate future of the Cubs, he might as well wait until the winter if he can’t get exactly what he wants right now.
1. the manny ramirez rumour – manny and cash to the cubs for a bunch of players, including mitre, patterson &/or rich hill.
2. the soriano rumour: soriano to the cubs to play LF for rich hill and 2 prospects (niether of them felix pie).
54 hours to the trade deadline. This is getting interesting.
Not saying if the these potential trades are good or bad, just that both are out there, and looks like the Cubs will be players again this year.
Andy, you’re take on the Ryno stuff is wrong. You should be sick of the media, not of the first Cubs Hall of Famer you can say you actually watched play. Like everything else they do, the media has to find everything they can about a subject and run it into the ground. My advice is to tape the stuff from this weekend, save it, and in a few years you’ll be glad you did. This is a big deal for a good guy who was on the only good Cubs teams for most of your early lifetime. For the forseeable future, the only Cubs Hall of Famers will be the equally-boring Greg Maddux and that ass-bag Sammy. Let’s enjoy it while we can.
This Manny deal doesn’t work unless Hendry also throws in Murton, Pie, Scott Moore and Todd Walker. Besides, anny’s 33. A trade for him can longer be considered a “BIG” trade, which would mean that this dumbass Hendry STILL hasn’t made a big move.
Otherwise, it’s just another “safe” move.
We’re dopes.
We’re impossible to please.
We love Chuck.
Alvarez is going to be the full time AD at Wisconsin starting in 2006. As for his son, his tool of choice for parrots is the microwave. I think he has a cookbook out this Fall.
No Manny, please. Didn’t we just waste an entire off-season to rid ourselves of malcontents and guys that give a half-assed effort 100% of the time?? And you want to pay Manny $20MM/year from now until next decade for the privilege?
Just. Say. No.
Soriano sucks eggs too. Give me Kearns and Dunn, or don’t bother.
Hmmm…which lazy dominican do we want on the Cubs…so hard to decide…um…the prima dona? No, wait that’s both of them…uh, the one who plays horrible defense at his chosen position? Again, that’s both guys…
Hmm…does one of them make $14 million dollars less than the other? Ok, we’ll take Soriano. Unless the Red Sox kick in some serious cash…
CF-Hairston
2B-Soriano
1B-Lee
LF-M. Ramirez
3B-A. Ramirez
RF-Burnitz
SS-Nomar
C-Barrett
Dusty could pretty much throw darts at that list and come up with a good lineup…It’s not going to happen, I’m just saying…
Allow me to play Sanjay for a moment: Texas wants to dump Soriano, and the Cubs seem to have what they want. The Mets want Soriano more though, and have a left handed hitting outfielder that the Red Sox could use. Would it be possible for the Cubs to obtain Soriano, then send him to the Mets for Cornelius Clifford Floyd, and finally ship Cliff to the Red Sox for Manny? Obviously there’d be some other players involved, but these would be the principals. Also, 3 of the 4 GM’s that took part in last year’s Nomar deal would be involved. Hell, we could probably pry Dougie Eyechart away from the Mets and reunite him with World Series ball in Boston if they want.
I think part of it is that as great as Ryne was, I just never really liked him all that much. I’m glad he was a Cub because he was a stud, and he deserves to be in the Hall, but I just can’t get all giddy over it.
Allow Sanjay to play me for a minute:
Out of all the mangoo that’s been spewed here today, I like CT’s slurpee-jerk imitation the best, but I’d think I’d stop once Cliff Floyd got here. Yeah, man, Manny can rake, but he makes Dennis Rodman seem like Ryne Sandberg.
And Andy, I LOVE Ryno. After this weekend, they’ll drag his bald ass out for his jersey retirement, and then you’ll only hear from him once a spring, as he makes his token visit to HoHoKam. Just hang in there, buddy.
Ryno strikes me as a hanger-on. He’s desperate for attention and love. I can see him hanging around Wrigley as a pathetic used-to-be ten years from now, with some lame-ass job or title like “special roving instructor” or “public relations specialist.” Same crap they gave Ernie and Billy as they hung around for years. So in that sense, I guess Ryno fits right in.
Is more like it.
Sloth, shouldn’t you be wandering upstate NY by now?
Why don’t the Cubs get rid of Wood for Soriano? If anybody would take him right now and the Cubs could get a cup of warm piss for Wood and eat half his contract, it would be a miricle.
As for this Wild Card race there are two teams in this thing. The Cubs are playing against themselves and the Astros. If I were the Cubs, I would be more afraid of myself. As you saw yesterday, they are quite dangerous to themselves.
Baker Basher
Sloth, I’d take the Big Red Dog or Manny, whichever, as long as it means we don’t see Hollandsworth trotted out there every day.
And Rodman was fucked up, but he did win 5 titles.
The Cubs can’t trade Wood because he can’t stay off the DL long enough for anybody to take him.
Hey, if you’re going to plagiarize, you may as well plagiarize somebody who can spell the word in the accusation. You mean you wrote about that crazy Ryan Dempster streaking outside Stanley’s again yesterday?
They get Man Ram and give up only Mitre, Holly, and Patterson, Hendry get’s beatification in my book. The “No Risky Moves” tag would be removed.
The No. 13 Voice of Reason post is the biggest piece of shit ever placed on this site.
And way too much enthusiasm over Kearns and Dunn, especially Dunn. The Reds won’t trade them to a team in their division, and there’s no reason for the Cubs to help improve the Cincy pitching staff when they have to play them so many times per year.
If you trade for Manny, the good news is that he’ll need a rope ladder to do this at Wrigley.
They have doors in the wall at Wrigley.
Hey guys, I’m rumored to be on the trading block… Why hasn’t my name come up? I’m better than Manny cause I’m a left-handed bat… Let Dusty play that L-R-L game mang. I won’t tear my hammy day 1 at Wrigely too. I swear.
I’ll be decided last weekend of the season when the cubs visit the asstros for a 4 game series.
My first choice: Man Ram
2nd choice: Big Red Dog
3rd choice: Junior Griff
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187th chocie: Soriano, and I’d still stick my head in the oven.
“LaTroy Hawkins – I cringe whenever some nitwit says he can’t close because he doesn’t have the mentality for it. Screw that. LaTroy could be the NL’s best closer (non-Gagne division) because he’s got serious s@#$ and great control. There’s no doubt he’ll do a great job in that role.”
You’re ignoring the main difference between Manny and Sosa…..Manny can still rake.
Manny is 33 and signed through 2008. By my count that makes him 36 when the contract expires. He’s due 19, 18, 20 million over the next 3 years. The club options for 2009-2010 can be scrapped. We won’t owe any of his signing bonus (it was paid out over 5 years and that’s up this year).
He’s posted OPS’s over 1.000 since 1999. His OPS+ is declining but it’s still over 150. He’s going to be overpaid by the end of his contract (when he’s due 20 mil) but should still be very productive until 2008 (barring a Sosa like collapse). If he isn’t the same guy by 2009 you decline the club options and try and bring him back for 10-12 mil for 2 years.
Chuck on July 29th, 2005:
“They get Man Ram and give up only Mitre, Holly, and Patterson, Hendry get’s beatification in my book. The “No Risky Moves†tag would be removed. ”
Chuck on July 31st, 2004 (from the hyperlink):
“I’ve been on Jim Hendry almost as much as I’ve been on Korey. He’s never made a gutsy, go-for-broke move. Until now.”
I have stated that the Nomar deal, while a “go for the title now” move, was not risky as Hendry gave up nothing of note.
Wanna say I’m parsing? Fine. But the Nomar deal was low risk with a high peotential payoff.
And the real “risk” on Man Ram is that he’s still owed $19mm, $18mm and $20mm in 2006, 2007 and 2008.
Don’t bother playing semantics with the Chucker. The way it works is I’d be a hero if I gave away top prospects for someone like Thome, but instead I’m a pussy because I gave up a far lesser prospect for Derrek Lee.
Doesn’t matter how it turns out, it wasn’t risky enough for Chuck because Lee wasn’t as good as Thome at the time of the trade.
You know I’m good when Len’s favorite word, “erstwhile” gets used.
Define risky…. is it what you give up or what you get?
“They have doors in the wall at Wrigley. ”
It’s true, I saw Burnitz run face first into one last year when the Rockie were in town. Damn near made the catch, too.
Uh, Jim. You’re either a total dumbass or Dusty stole your name.
1) Thome was a free agent. You don;t give up players for that.
2) The D Lee trade was 1 year too late. Or are you saying that Thome in 2003 was worse than Karros?
I am clearly the best option. Griffey, you can’t stay on the field, same with you Cornelious Clifford. Soriano is slightly above average out of Arlington the last two years. The Red Sox will surely kick in some cash if you give them good prospects or get them someone like Dunn.
Don’t compare me to Sammy. My numbers weren’t chemically enhanced. I can flat out rake and would give your offense a tremendous boost this year. Look at how consistently good I have been. Even with a poor April and May I am still on my way to yet another studly season.
Trade for me Cubs fans. You won’t regret it.
:::Define risky…. is it what you give up or what you get?:::
Either or both.
Give up two or three top prospects for a free agent to be, aging superstar? Risky.
Give up little, but take on huge dollars and a whack job player for multiple years? Risky.
Give up nothing for an oft-injured, ex-batting champ whose contract is about to expire? Ballsy, but no real risk.
Intrepid Reader: Nominee: biggest piece of shit ever placed on this site
July 29th, 2005 at 11:12 am
“LaTroy Hawkins – I cringe whenever some nitwit says he can’t close because he doesn’t have the mentality for it. Screw that. LaTroy could be the NL’s best closer (non-Gagne division) because he’s got serious s@#$ and great control. There’s no doubt he’ll do a great job in that role.â€Â
I wrote it and I was sooooooooooooooooooooo wrong. There, you have it, proof that I am fallible. I’m sure it’s the first time anyone’s ever had any proof.
Chuck, I’ll never get this argument. If Hendry’s not making trades because he’s afraid, that’s one thing. But if he makes trades that improve the team and he doesn’t do any “risky” deals, doesn’t that mean he’s doing a good job?
How about you approve a $1,000,000 loan so Shawn Kemp can open a Planned Parenthood franchise. That’d be risky.
If you trade for my daddy, you can sign me to a minor league contract right away, too, like the Asstros did with Kady Kornut Klemens, or whatever.
Andy, i love you kid but you are just making shit up. That Manny trade is ridiculous, Dunn’s bat doesn’t begin to replace Manny’s, and Soriano ain’t playin’ no outfield. There’s absolutely no talk of Soriano to the Cubs down here, so you know. You are right about Kinsler though and we have Drew Meyer also, who recently got promoted to AAA OKC. One thing is for sure, Soriano won’t a Ranger next week
Could I improve playing under the “player’s manager”?
I ain’t making it up, Tex. I’m not saying somebody isn’t making it up, I’m just saying it ain’t me. If Soriano gets traded it’s either the Mets or Cubs. And the Red Sox are doing the same stuff regarding Manny they did with Nomar a year ago today.
Ryno’s wife is bangin. Lemme at her.
Sure #43. I’ll put a recliner in left field if it will help. You can be just like the cartoon outfielder on the scoreboard in “Major League”.
Wow! A Holly/Manny platoon in left would be great.
Wow! A Holly/Manny platoon in left would be great.
I visited Lovie yesterday and said that the bears might be good this year,
and then, somewhere in wisconsin, I got ripped by donny brasco.
Hendry wants me to put Sori in Left. He has never played Left in the big leagues bro. Left is the hardest position to learn. I am going to use him in a platoon with Hairston, and Walk
Wonder what I’d be if the fans were yelling “Baker Sucks” instead of “Hawkins Sucks”? I bet you’d need an ark to get out of the clubhouse after I flooded it with my tears.
Don’t know if any of you have read Soxaholix, but this one is really funny. Be sure to click on the highlighted links
Hey #52! Fuck the Sox!!!
#51. I think we’ll get to find out pretty soon. Maybe even today.
I know I’m a pessimist, but this trade deadline for the Cubs is going to be just like the offense: “would of, should of, could of”
If manny comes here, it will be no different than when we had Sally Sosa as far as his chemistry with the clubhouse. I say we do what we can to pick up Wily Mo or Kearns.
“That gave me the chills a little bit to wonder who’s next on the booing list on that kind of magnitude.”
I’m a dumbass on all kinds of magnitudes.
What about us, Baker Basher? Do we not matter in the Wild Card race?
Redsoxaholics are addicted to me. Anybody know what I am fermented from?
Oh yes, get me. I am not just a better hitting Dubois. Have you seen the routes I take on balls, and then when I get the ball, I do my best Sammy impression and miss the cutoff man. Usually it’s cus I wanna show off my big, strong arm. Oh, and get Soriano too, that’s all this team needs is another guy who strikes out a ton and doesn’t like authority figures.
It almost seems like I want to get booed, what is wrong with me? Could someone really be this sensless? Am I trying to get canned? Have I been trying to get canned since I’ve been here? Geez.
Why make a risky move if A) you don’t have to? and B) you can get good value in return for what you give up.
To completely change the subject, we think we’re going to be the team to beat in the wild card. Barring a Burnett or Pierre trade, we’re actually the best team (and biggest disappointment) in the East, and the Astros remind us of the Cubs team that played us right before the break. Getting wins despite major flaws. That said, the Burnett trade changes things, but as of right now, we’re the team to beat.
They needed to make a risky move. Not making a risky move cost them a playoff spot last year (letting the Astros out maneouver them) and a title the year before (failing to add a guy in the pen).
What about …? Never mind. Your malcontent slugger slide-kicking guys is a good sign that you’re all done.
A quick two cents before the ballgame today.
I 110% agreed with Andy about LaTroy Hawkins, so throw me in the fire as well.
Ryne Sandberg has the sentiment of being the first “favorite baseball player” in this set of genes and chromoso-and-so’s. In effect, this pre-induction hype bothers me none, because it is the culmination of 15 years of solid-as-fuck baseball, and 7 years of hoping and waiting.
My favorite wa actually Dernier….
All this talk about Manny, Soriano, Dunn, Kears, etc. – what happened to needing a leadoff hitter? Hairston has been adequate since he took over, and has been a vast improvement over K-Pat, but he is NOT the answer to our leadoff problem. He is having a Neifi!esqe run right now, but he is still just an average, utility type player at best.
I hope Hendry is talking to the Red Sox, but not about Manny, about Johnny of Nazareth. That guy would fit several needs, be a better clubhouse guy than ManRam and once he was out of Boston, we would finally get to hear him unload about what a self-centered, attention whore Curt Schilling is.
That alone would be worth the trade.
How cool would it be if Hendry, Dusty, and the rest of the Cubs organization took an approach of trying to acquire smart players who know how to get on base, hit-and-run, play good defense, and have something in their pitching repertoire other than a 95 mph fastball instead of trying to build a Rotisserie team?
Chuck that’s not what they need to do.
They need to make a good, smart move.
A risky move is trading Lee for Beltran and bringing up Dopirak. That hardly makes the team better.
Every logical argument for anything tells me that I’d still be wearing a Mariners uniform on August 1, and trading me might be the worst PR move in Mariners history, but is there a snowball’s chance in hell that I’m moving anywhere, namely to Chicago’s north side?
TW… a risky move like that COULD very well make the team better. Dopirak could hit .290 the rest of the way with decent power, and the Carlos Beltran, circa Oct. 2004, could re-emerge, play center field, grease the skids for Corey’s departure, make Felix Pie or Matt Murton expendable, etc.
Brave!
I see Brian Dopriak’s name come up in these trade rumors here and there.
…..
Has anyone seen what he’s done this year!?
In case the answer to #74 is “no”.
.243 .298 .370 for your Daytona Cubs.
But TJ…. Why would you make that move on the chance Beltran still sucks and Dopirak isn’t ready and hits .220 when you could easily pull off another deal that includes prospects for an established LF, CF, RP?
It could work out and is risky….but the other, smarter play is a better option. One that a good GM makes.
TW, you’re probably right, and I don’t think I’d make the deal. But it depends what risk tolerance you have. I actually mistook Dopirak for Brandon Sing (tearing it up in Jackson, TN), so I’m a dope, and the risk of Dopirak is even bigger.
Name drop.
Yeah bring in the Black Farns with the bases juiced instead of at the beginning of the inning when nobody’s on base.
Dusty manages out of spite. He’s telling Hendry to get him a bullpen. If Hendry had any balls, he’d can his before the end of the inning for sacrificing games to make a point.
Say what you want about the bullpen, but Bob Novoa starting the 8th was the ONLY decision to make.
If I’m traded, and Wood goes to the pen, are you going to regress to streaking Mitre. Or maybe Rusch will be the third playoff starter. That would look wonderful.
If Krusty got The Babe, The Mick, and The Bronx Bomber, he would still screw this team up. If I were Hendry, I would get Krusty a one way plane ticket.