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OK A-holes.  It's fixed.  Enjoy the orange links, because I have no fucking idea how to change them.  I basically learned scripting in four days to fix this damned thing. - Andy

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Messages - CubFaninHydePark

#661
Quote from: Jon on February 17, 2009, 04:07:31 PM
I disagree with your definition of "random." Evolution is heavily directed and constrained by myriad events that are not very predictable, but "random" has a meaning and implication that leads one to logical fallacies if it is used to describe Natural Selection. Random implies that anything can happen and nothing is predictable. But, as is, since the changes in speciation are very, very incremental, there are really only a few places each offspring can go in change at a generational level. Random is just not the right word.

I think that we're having a micro/macro disagreement--if you look at the way any one species has evolved, sure, there is a range of possible adaptations and ways the species can evolve.  It's not perfectly random (e.g. equal probabilities) whether we'll grow a superflous third nipple ala Krusty or sprout wings or develop a better immune system.

But how our immune system may grow stronger is "random" in the sense that we don't have control over to what it's exposed.  Say some weather phenomenon seriously alters an ecosystem...you're going to get a different evolution within that system as a result.

Random and weighted probabilities are consistent--but random is a perfectly good proxy for "influenced by uncontrollable phenomena."  The key element of random is "chance," not "equal chance."  I haven't heard a scientist claim that any evolution was guaranteed and not ultimately subject to some degree of chance (and hence, randomness).
#662
Quote from: Tank on February 17, 2009, 01:24:25 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on February 17, 2009, 12:28:46 PM
Also, evolution and any Christian faith are 100% incompatible.  God could not have "created" a random process.  It ultimately doesn't jive with omnipotence, and it implies absolute predestination.  If "evolution" as it is scientifically understood is really the work of God, then not only did it (thinking of God as having a gender is just retarded--and reveals a lot about the size of the mind of those who think of God as 'He') set the wheels in motion, but it knew what every outcome for every living entity at all points in time would be at the point it set the wheels in motion.  If it didn't know this outcome, then it wouldn't be omnipotent.

I think your understanding of Christian theology and its history is lacking. I gather that you're not a Christian (or religious at all), so you probably don't give a shit, nor should you.

At the same time, it's pretty uncharitable to project what you seem to assume others' beliefs should entail onto their faith only for the sake of calling bullshit on it.

Questions of free will vs. determinism are hardly the sole province of Christian theologians. They also comes into play in decidedly atheistic philosophical debates over physicalism, for example. And some Christian theologians have in fact embraced predestination, notably by Augustine and Calvin.

As for the implications of omnipotence, you're hardly the first to raise this difficulty, among many others.

In short, these very issues have been debated and wrestled with and mulled over by some tremendous thinkers for centuries. You may well find their answers to these questions unconvincing or just plain bullshit.

But don't just flatly assume that they were all ignorant or unthinking because you think you've found some Achilles heel paradox that must have simply never occurred to them.

And honestly, any religion capable of espousing something as bizarre and counter-intuitive as the Trinity (following a heavy dose of old school Greek philosophy) is surely capable of reconciling creation with evolution.

1. I assume that followers of a faith actually embrace the faith's doctrine.  I think that "Catholics" who believe in ordaining women, think transubstantiation is impossible as it violates the law of conservation of matter, etc. aren't really Catholics.  If you don't want to play by the doctrinal rules, find the confidence to call yourself something else.  If you want the label, take on the intellectual/moral baggage.

2. It doesn't matter how many people of varying degrees of intelligence--many far smarter than me--have grappled with the omnipotism/free-will paradox.  It's debilitating.  If you want to embrace the idea of an omnipotent God, then embrace predestination.  Ultimately even "liberal" protestant faiths' official doctrines bite the predestination bullet, like Methodists.

All I really want is for people to be intellectually honest.  That means accepting the necessary logical and moral implications of identifying with a faith.

If you want to be religious, but "free" to agree/disagree with whatever you want to, there's a church for you--it's called 'Universalist.'

3. By evolution being "random," I mean that there are factors that cannot be controlled--e.g. random weather patterns that push animals to environments that require adaptation, plant germination in some direction...because it involves probability, by definition it is random, right?

4. Determinism/freewill obviously plays out across psychology, etc.  But in the religious context, there's nothing persuasive in favor of free will, IMO.
#663
Quote from: Tank on February 16, 2009, 12:14:50 PM
A. This Section shall be known and may be cited as the "Louisiana Science Education Act."

B.(1) The State Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, upon request of a city, parish, or other local public school board, shall allow and assist teachers, principals, and other school administrators to create and foster an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied including, but not limited to, evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning.

(2) Such assistance shall include support and guidance for teachers regarding effective ways to help students understand, analyze, critique, and objectively review scientific theories being studied, including those enumerated in Paragraph (1) of this Subsection.

C. A teacher shall teach the material presented in the standard textbook supplied by the school system and thereafter may use supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner, as permitted by the city, parish, or other local public school board.

D. This Section shall not be construed to promote any religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or nonreligion.

E. The State Board of Elementary and Secondary Education and each city, parish, or other local public school board shall adopt and promulgate the rules and regulations necessary to implement the provisions of this Section prior to the beginning of the 2008-2009 school year.

I don't think this has really been pointed out--but this bill is the epitome of 'Doublespeak.'  George Orwell would have been aghast to read such a thing.

The only 'discourse' that has any room to 'analyze, critique and review scientific theories' is science itself.  There isn't a religious institution on this planet that can credibly claim to offer anything resembling an intelligent or thoughtful analysis, critique or review of anything scientific...Mostly because every religion of consequence predates the scientific method by at least 1000 years.  It's ridiculous to think that anything in the actual content of religions of consequence (meaning not batshit crazy scientologists or cults) can apply to an intellectual advancement made well after content had stopped being added to a religion's doctrine.

To say otherwise is to say that us lowly mortals are capable of adding shit to religious doctrine that isn't actually in the religious texts.  Which would make you a prophet.

Also, evolution and any Christian faith are 100% incompatible.  God could not have "created" a random process.  It ultimately doesn't jive with omnipotence, and it implies absolute predestination.  If "evolution" as it is scientifically understood is really the work of God, then not only did it (thinking of God as having a gender is just retarded--and reveals a lot about the size of the mind of those who think of God as 'He') set the wheels in motion, but it knew what every outcome for every living entity at all points in time would be at the point it set the wheels in motion.  If it didn't know this outcome, then it wouldn't be omnipotent.

Of course, I'm just pointing out that omnipotence and free-will cannot ever be squared--but that insight is particularly relevant here.  Either evolution is truly random, or it's not evolution. Randomness is an essential part of its definition.  It's just a bunch of dominos falling in a manner entirely known by some omnipotent being.  And that's not science.

So fuck Bobby Jindal for passing a doublespeak bill that undermines the most intelligent discourse that humanity has come up with in the last, good long while...a discourse that religion has no answer to and a discourse that has actually done more to improve the human condition than any other discourse.

(/ducks from any incoming postmodern critiques of the scientific method, etc.)
#664
Desipio Lounge / Re: Shitty O'Keas
January 10, 2009, 01:39:20 AM
Sadly, I won't be able to make it to Shitty O'Keas--Pissburgh, 2 Penguins home games and the (hopefully still) #1 Panthers playing Syracuse on Big Monday created the perfect storm to celebrate Dr. King's birthday.
#665
Quote from: Zed on January 06, 2009, 09:10:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2009, 08:37:23 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on January 06, 2009, 07:57:09 AM
Quote from: TDubbs on January 06, 2009, 07:35:35 AM
Quote from: ~Apex on January 06, 2009, 07:33:51 AM
Quote from: TDubbs on January 06, 2009, 07:23:30 AM
Quote from: Oleg on January 05, 2009, 10:27:42 PM
Cool.  Now we can start the real Jake Peavy, a Cub countdown?

I heard they got Peavy this morning.

Who did? The cops? The Jehova's Witnesses?

I need closure to this anecdote.

They?  The government?



Rowdy.

Roddy.

Piper.

Bitches.
I'm here to chew bubblegum and kick ass.  And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp_K8prLfso&feature=related

I have to watch this movie this weekend.
#666
Desipio Lounge / Re: Greg Maddux, the Puppet Master
December 06, 2008, 04:00:44 AM
Quote from: Simmer on December 05, 2008, 06:10:37 PM
Easily my favorite starting pitcher of all-time.

You and me both.  I'm sure it won't be long until Smoltz and Glavine follow suit and the three of them are playing golf together on a course where the cups are 6 inches wider--or at least any putt that ends up within 6 inches of either edge counts...but just for them.
#667
Quote from: Gil Gunderson on November 10, 2008, 11:24:21 PM


Quote from: Gil Gunderson on November 10, 2008, 08:15:41 PM
Moreover, will Obama push for some non-appropriations legislation in the first 100 days?  By this, I mean, will he push for EFCA or ENDA?

Opinion, Gil?

Stew?

(For those of us whose bailiwick isn't labor law.)

QuoteI have no problem with the Employee Non-Discrimination Act.  I long ago came to the conclusion that sexual preference was within the parameters of the definition of "suspect class" to qualify for strict scrutiny.  As it stands, I think it's impact upon the business community would be minimal.

The Employee Free Choice Act is a different bag altogether.  Stew and I have shared some thoughts on this, but I am opposed to EFCA as it is currently written.  I support increasing the penalties and putting some teeth in the NLRA, but forcing arbitration for first-time contracts and converting over to a card-check only system for recognition, rather than an NLRB election is something that requires more study and revision.

Stew and I differ on this though.  As best as I can recall, Stew is ambivalent at best toward the Board (if I may characterize his opinion).  As a former employee (and probable future one), I support modifying the Board's processes and working within the current regulatory framework.

1. As a Dem, I will be at the front of the line saying card check is retarded.  The only bad thing about Obama winning is that UAW won't be getting their medicine in Detroit.  While the corporate elite have done more than their fair share to fuck all this up, UAW, teachers unions and public transit unions (especially like the Port Authority in Pittsburgh) have been more than egregious in harming the economy and bleeding unnecessary billions from taxpayers.

Teachers unions may yet cost this nation its wealth and position in the world.  Their obstinacy to merit pay and teacher accountability, not a Caesar, may lay Rome low.

Unionizing Wal-Mart is a quicker route to depression than progress.  Add in the baseball players union and you'll find me hard, if not impossibly pressed, to find a union that I actually like.  Local Bonghitters 420, perhaps?

2. Non-discrimination?  Sign me up.  Another cause of action for employees means another thing future clients have to defend against, which means more work for...you guessed it...lawyers.
#668
I'm ready to bounce off the walls.  I always knew Z would throw a no-no, and I buy a scorecard every night I'm at a game and he's pitching hoping that'll be the night.

I wish I were there, but I'm glad I got to see the last 3 outs on ESPN.

Also what fiveouts said.
#669
Quote from: ~Apex on August 28, 2008, 01:47:23 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on August 28, 2008, 12:23:33 PM
I was thinking about this on the trip home last night...  The Harden trade has increased Marquis' value - it basically sent away our old #5 starter for a starter that was so ridiculously better than Marquis that it bumped Jason down to the clear #5 starter.

As a #4 starter...it's probably not as clear.  While we're overpaying, the Harden deal gave Marquis a role where he might actually be very good.

That's an odd way of saying that the rotation is quite a bit better with Harden than with Gallagher.

I've found that finding ways to creatively restate the obvious can confuse people into thinking that you know something.
#670
I was thinking about this on the trip home last night...  The Harden trade has increased Marquis' value - it basically sent away our old #5 starter for a starter that was so ridiculously better than Marquis that it bumped Jason down to the clear #5 starter.

As a #4 starter...it's probably not as clear.  While we're overpaying, the Harden deal gave Marquis a role where he might actually be very good.
#671
The best insurance we could get in September would be for Marquis to be caught in a bathroom stall with either Cotts or Howry.
#672
Quote from: Poon on August 20, 2008, 12:06:27 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on August 19, 2008, 11:10:03 PM
Milwaukees other "Ace" gives up a 2-out, 2-on bomb to Geoff Blum to lose the game.  Maybe they should've had Cee Cee pitch the 6th.

Don't let Ned hear this idea or CC will work out of the pen on all four of his off days.

Why not have him toss his "side session" in late innings?  I'm kinda afraid for Cee Cee that it might come down to something ridiculous like this.
#673
Milwaukees other "Ace" gives up a 2-out, 2-on bomb to Geoff Blum to lose the game.  Maybe they should've had Cee Cee pitch the 6th.
#674
Quote from: therick711 on August 17, 2008, 02:54:00 PM
Even Ryan Braun Carlos Villanueva  thinks Luis Gonzalez's Ryan Braun's Left Field heroic homerun sucks.

Up to dated.
#675
Quote from: Jon on August 15, 2008, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: Kerm on August 15, 2008, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Oleg on August 15, 2008, 10:26:57 AM
Quote from: Jon on August 15, 2008, 09:35:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on August 15, 2008, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: Three times a JD on August 15, 2008, 08:31:06 AM
Quote from: BC on August 15, 2008, 12:03:55 AM
Just a little note for you. In the loss column, the Cardinals are now closer to the Astros than they are to the Brewers.

So now you're worried about the Cardinals, Brewers, AND Astros?

He's seen it too many times before.
Well, since this is just 1977 all over again, we've only got 7 more wins left in us...

Better enjoy them.

Intrepid Reader: The Huebiter
You damn well better NOT!

Sorry. Once the car is flipped, it cannot be unflipped...

That's what they told me in Pissburgh...and Morganhole for that matter.