Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy

[Saul Goodman]

I liked it, but make sure you're ready for a lot of slow exposition punctuated by some very brief bursts of action. I hadn't read the book so it was a bit difficult to keep track of the characters and connect the dots. If you've read the book you probably won't have to think as much and just take in the film.

[Tonker]

I saw this a couple of weeks ago and I have read the book, a couple of times.  I'm certainly well enough acquainted with the story to wonder why the fuck they deviated from it so wildly... Istanbul instead of Hong Kong;  Budapest instead of Brno;  Peter Guillam is gay;  Toby Esterhase threatened with deportation;  Jim Prideaux shoots [name of mole redacted] instead of breaking his neck;  Jerry Westerby the duty officer instead of Sam Collins?

I understand that they're trying to fit a very long story into a little over two hours but none of those changes made any difference to the efficiency of the storyline.  Perhaps if they'd spent a little less time showing Smiley swimming, or the Christmas party, they could have spent more time developing the characters.  Bill Haydon's character didn't get nearly the depth it needed, and Roy Bland, Toby Esterhase and Percy Alleline might as well not have been there for all we ever found out about them.

Don't get me wrong, it was a very good-looking film and there were some good performances - not least John Hurt as "Control".  Gary Oldman was no great shakes as Smiley, to be honest, but he didn't badly fuck it up, either.  Kathy Burke badly, badly misplayed Connie Sachs and if you're out-acted in the Rickie Tarr role by Hywel Bennett (I'm looking at you, Tom Hardy) then you need to have a serious think about your life.

If you really want to see a dramatisation of this book, get hold of the original BBC miniseries, which takes its time and has an outstanding cast - not least Alec Guinness as Smiley.  Even Le Carre himself admits that his performance was definitive.

[Tonker]

Oh, yeah - and all the way through the film they pronounced Esterhase ("Esterhazy") as "Esterhouse".  Fuck sake.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

Oh, yeah - and all the way through the film they pronounced Esterhase ("Esterhazy") as "Esterhouse".  Fuck sake.

Joe Eszterhas?

[Gilgamesh]

Oh, yeah - and all the way through the film they pronounced Esterhase ("Esterhazy") as "Esterhouse".  Fuck sake.

Joe Eszterhas?

Joe Eszterzobeanz?

[CBStew]

I saw this a couple of weeks ago and I have read the book, a couple of times.  I'm certainly well enough acquainted with the story to wonder why the fuck they deviated from it so wildly... Istanbul instead of Hong Kong;  Budapest instead of Brno;  Peter Guillam is gay;  Toby Esterhase threatened with deportation;  Jim Prideaux shoots [name of mole redacted] instead of breaking his neck;  Jerry Westerby the duty officer instead of Sam Collins?

I understand that they're trying to fit a very long story into a little over two hours but none of those changes made any difference to the efficiency of the storyline.  Perhaps if they'd spent a little less time showing Smiley swimming, or the Christmas party, they could have spent more time developing the characters.  Bill Haydon's character didn't get nearly the depth it needed, and Roy Bland, Toby Esterhase and Percy Alleline might as well not have been there for all we ever found out about them.

Don't get me wrong, it was a very good-looking film and there were some good performances - not least John Hurt as "Control".  Gary Oldman was no great shakes as Smiley, to be honest, but he didn't badly fuck it up, either.  Kathy Burke badly, badly misplayed Connie Sachs and if you're out-acted in the Rickie Tarr role by Hywel Bennett (I'm looking at you, Tom Hardy) then you need to have a serious think about your life.

If you really want to see a dramatisation of this book, get hold of the original BBC miniseries, which takes its time and has an outstanding cast - not least Alec Guinness as Smiley.  Even Le Carre himself admits that his performance was definitive.

I defer to your thorough review.  I found the movie engrossing.  Not for the plot, which is intentionally very dense, but for the movie making.  For the most part the scenes are very short.  But during them the camera and characters move very slowly.  The combined effect on me was that I was are getting a lot of important information.  There was another very clever detail.  After Smiley is involuntarily retired from the "Circus", he goes to an optometrist and gets a new pair of glasses.  Thereafter, whenever there is a flashback involving Smiley, and there are many, he is wearing his old glasses so you are not confused about when the scene was supposed to have occurred.  As for Guillam's sexuality, I saw no plot reason for inserting that into the movie.  Over all it is one of those movies that you want to talk about with others.  For me that is the sign of a good movie, as long as what you are saying is not something along the line of "what a colossal waste of time and $9.50."

[Tonker]

Have you seen the BBC original, Stew?  If not, you really should.  It's absolutely magnificent, and a real period piece.

I've been thinking about some of the plot deviations and I, too, can find absolutely no reason for Guillam being gay, unless it was just to add a little bit of 21st Century political correctness.  The problem is that, if they're going to go on to make "The Honourable Schoolboy" and "Smiley's People", then Guillam's notorious heterosexuality is important, and I don't know what they do about that.  Perhaps he's bi.

The writers thinking in advance about "The Honourable Schoolboy" is the only possible reason I can come up with for the Jerry Westerby/Sam Collins switch.  I can only imagine that they've got one eye on the next film and they want Steven Graham to star - the only problem with that is that he couldn't be more inappropriately cast.  Westerby is tall, distinguished and very, very Public School.  Graham is short, scruffy and a frigging Scouser.  Additionally, Collins has a major role in THS, and would actually be a better part for Graham.  It just makes no sense at all.

Still, you're right, the film (clearly) did make me want to talk about it, even if not entirely in a positive way.

[Wheezer]

Speaking of Smiley's People, I cannot understand how the BBC titling department let through an accent on a pretend-French display majuscule.

[Wheezer]

DPD. One, I suppose, might complain that Smiley's People is "easier" than TTSP. One might not; I do not care and mention this only for the sake of inviting argument about which I also do not care. Aside from the perfunctory dénouement, the final episode is the best thing I've seen since the epilogue to Berlin Alexanderplatz.

[Tonker]

DPD. One, I suppose, might complain that Smiley's People is "easier" than TTSP. One might not; I do not care and mention this only for the sake of inviting argument about which I also do not care. Aside from the perfunctory dénouement, the final episode is the best thing I've seen since the epilogue to Berlin Alexanderplatz.

I'm a sef-confessed Le Carré fanboy and won't hear a word said against anything that the BBC did with the Smiley stories - they were real period pieces, and yet have aged beautifully.  It's a matter of some sadness to me that the sheer complexity and number of exotic locations involved precluded Auntie Beeb from making "The Honourable Schoolboy" before Sir Alec shuffled off.  Wheez, if you haven't read the books, you really should - especially THS.

[Wheezer]

Next up is the Burton Spy Who Came in from the Cold and, I suppose, the BBC Le Carré documentary on disc 2, which I hope is at least on par with the Australadian documentary that came with Under the Volcano. By the way, Tonk, has anyone ever mentioned that you bear some resemblance to shack-phase Malcolm Lowry?

[Edit.--Tell me I'm wrong.]

[Tonker]

Next up is the Burton Spy Who Came in from the Cold and, I suppose, the BBC Le Carré documentary on disc 2, which I hope is at least on par with the Australadian documentary that came with Under the Volcano. By the way, Tonk, has anyone ever mentioned that you bear some resemblance to shack-phase Malcolm Lowry?

[Edit.--Tell me I'm wrong.]

That was the exact picture I just looked up on GIS.  I can't see it myself, to be honest, and neither can STonk, who's sitting beside me.

I got the Burton "TSWCIFTC" for Christmas, but haven't got round to watching it yet.  I don't suppose it can really be anything but top notch because, well, it's Burton and the book (part of which is set in Den Haag, of course) is fantastic.

[morpheus]

Next up is the Burton Spy Who Came in from the Cold and, I suppose, the BBC Le Carré documentary on disc 2, which I hope is at least on par with the Australadian documentary that came with Under the Volcano. By the way, Tonk, has anyone ever mentioned that you bear some resemblance to shack-phase Malcolm Lowry?

[Edit.--Tell me I'm wrong.]

That was the exact picture I just looked up on GIS.  I can't see it myself, to be honest, and neither can STonk, who's sitting beside me.

I got the Burton "TSWCIFTC" for Christmas, but haven't got round to watching it yet.  I don't suppose it can really be anything but top notch because, well, it's Burton and the book (part of which is set in Den Haag, of course) is fantastic.

I can't be the only one who thought of this when I saw this picture.

[Wheezer]

Anyway, is the BBC's radio dramatization "The Complete Smiley" any good? Seems like an awful lot to get into ten-and-a-half hours of spoken word. And I've sat through Heather Woodbury's "What Ever."

[Wheezer]

I got the Burton "TSWCIFTC" for Christmas, but haven't got round to watching it yet.  I don't suppose it can really be anything but top notch because, well, it's Burton and the book (part of which is set in Den Haag, of course) is fantastic.

It's relentlessly harsh, with the only light moment being that Smiley, who isn't yet Control, is played by a young Avery Schreiber.

[Edit.--OK, that, and the fact that "Chef Sauce" is on the shelves at lower right at 25:17.]