The Book Thief

[CBStew]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

[InternetApex]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

[CBStew]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

[Tonker]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

As you may know, my wife is German.  She had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and her parents had nothing to do with it, either.  For what it's worth, although it's actually not even really relevant, her grandparents sheltered Jews during the War.  STonk is completely and utterly blameless and yet, she has spent her life apologising for the actions of people she doesn't even know.  She's now got to the point where doesn't feel like she should have to do that any more.  I agree with her.  Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

[Chuck to Chuck]

Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

Hell, you're their dad. They had nothing to do with that and they'll feel guilt and shame for that for their entire lives.

[Tony]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

As you may know, my wife is German.  She had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and her parents had nothing to do with it, either.  For what it's worth, although it's actually not even really relevant, her grandparents sheltered Jews during the War.  STonk is completely and utterly blameless and yet, she has spent her life apologising for the actions of people she doesn't even know.  She's now got to the point where doesn't feel like she should have to do that any more.  I agree with her.  Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

Mrs. Butthead has a German last name, but her grandpa was adopted and we think he may have been Jewish. So am I supposed to apologize or not?

[Bort]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

As you may know, my wife is German.  She had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and her parents had nothing to do with it, either.  For what it's worth, although it's actually not even really relevant, her grandparents sheltered Jews during the War.  STonk is completely and utterly blameless and yet, she has spent her life apologising for the actions of people she doesn't even know.  She's now got to the point where doesn't feel like she should have to do that any more.  I agree with her.  Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

Mrs. Butthead has a German last name, but her grandpa was adopted and we think he may have been Jewish. So am I supposed to apologize or not?

I think you apologize, but you don't really mean it.

[Tony]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

As you may know, my wife is German.  She had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and her parents had nothing to do with it, either.  For what it's worth, although it's actually not even really relevant, her grandparents sheltered Jews during the War.  STonk is completely and utterly blameless and yet, she has spent her life apologising for the actions of people she doesn't even know.  She's now got to the point where doesn't feel like she should have to do that any more.  I agree with her.  Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

Mrs. Butthead has a German last name, but her grandpa was adopted and we think he may have been Jewish. So am I supposed to apologize or not?

I think you apologize, but you don't really mean it.

So like a normal apology.

[Bort]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

As you may know, my wife is German.  She had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and her parents had nothing to do with it, either.  For what it's worth, although it's actually not even really relevant, her grandparents sheltered Jews during the War.  STonk is completely and utterly blameless and yet, she has spent her life apologising for the actions of people she doesn't even know.  She's now got to the point where doesn't feel like she should have to do that any more.  I agree with her.  Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

Mrs. Butthead has a German last name, but her grandpa was adopted and we think he may have been Jewish. So am I supposed to apologize or not?

I think you apologize, but you don't really mean it.

So like a normal apology.

Pretty much.

[Saul Goodman]

The U.S. and Japan are pretty cool to each other despite the whole Pearl Harbor/atomic bomb thing.  I apologize for my Braun Series 7 electric razor.  At least I bought a Swedish Volvo.

[CBStew]

What a wonderful title.  Who could not love a movie with a title like that?  Or a story line about a young, illiterate little girl who is being raised by strangers, who teaches herself to read and steals (or surreptitiously borrows) books to feed her passion for education?   Me.  Especially when the story takes place in Nazi Germany and the sub text is about how bad Germans had it during World War II.  Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time working up any sympathy for the people who ELECTED Adolph Hitler and enthusiastically supported his reign of terror.  Oh, I guess the movie was well made, in spite of the use of stereotypes instead of real people.  There are also some glaring historical mistakes.  You would think that it was the English who were reigning Blitzkreig down on the Germans in 1941 and 1942, instead of the other way around.  I found it odd that there didn't seem to by any adult Germans who liked Hitler in this movie.  This movie, like others released this year (Mud to name one) features remarkable child actors.  But all the great child actors on the planet couldn't get me to sympathize with this story.  SPOILER ALERT BELOW.





They have a Jewish character who is hidden on the cellar of a family.  One wonders why since there didn't seem to be anyone looking for him.  But when they worry that he may be discovered and endanger the family they send him away with blanket and a pair of wool socks.  Of all the poor Germans who didn't survive the war, guess which one did?

I understand your anger and concede this idea would be a tough sell for me too. But I've read enough about the Reich to know a little bit about the way it destroyed everyone's lives, including those it swore to protect and exalt. I don't want to compare what happened to poor non-Jews in Europe to what happened to the Jews and Slavs in any way. But I'm kind of interested in learning what life was like for those people.

Buyer's remorse for an electorate is not uncommon in any way. But these dolts willfully ushered in an era of death and destruction. Seems hard to believe that conditions could be so bad that such an outcome looks appealing. But then I lived in Buttpuddle and voted for George Bush twice. That can't be all that different from being a Nazi.

There is no denying that modern Germany seems to have performed a complete 180.  I come from a family that won't buy a German car or electric razor, yet the State of Israel seems to have no problem with Germany as an ally and trading partner.  It could well be that the experience of the German people during the war as opposed to their subsequent occupation made the difference in them today.  When I was in law school during the 1950's there was a German exchange student who complained "How long must we continue to apologize?"  The overwhelming response was "For the rest of your life and your children's and their children's lives."  I don't think that is long enough.

As you may know, my wife is German.  She had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and her parents had nothing to do with it, either.  For what it's worth, although it's actually not even really relevant, her grandparents sheltered Jews during the War.  STonk is completely and utterly blameless and yet, she has spent her life apologising for the actions of people she doesn't even know.  She's now got to the point where doesn't feel like she should have to do that any more.  I agree with her.  Do you really want my children to grow up feeling guilt and shame for something that had absolutely fuck all to do with them, too?

Look at what the United States did to its own citizens in WWII because their ancestors were from Japan.  We share a collective guilt and hopefully we will never do anything like that again.  Though the outrage that was widely expressed toward all Muslims after 9/11 makes me fear that we haven't absorbed the lesson yet.  The Japanese acknowledged their responsibility for WWII by adopting and adhering to a constitution designed to combat militarism.  Yet we see nationalistic right wing parties attempting to undo that today.  Even though my ancestors were living in shtetls in Russia at the time of slavery in the United States, I share our collective responsibility and I support programs designed to undo the effects.  We must acknowledge the wrongs committed by our predecessors made and learn from those mistakes, or we will end up repeating them.  

[Tonker]

Look at what the United States did to its own citizens in WWII because their ancestors were from Japan.  We share a collective guilt and hopefully we will never do anything like that again.  Though the outrage that was widely expressed toward all Muslims after 9/11 makes me fear that we haven't absorbed the lesson yet.  The Japanese acknowledged their responsibility for WWII by adopting and adhering to a constitution designed to combat militarism.  Yet we see nationalistic right wing parties attempting to undo that today.  Even though my ancestors were living in shtetls in Russia at the time of slavery in the United States, I share our collective responsibility and I support programs designed to undo the effects.  We must acknowledge the wrongs committed by our predecessors made and learn from those mistakes, or we will end up repeating them.  

I couldn't agree more: we have a duty to remember, in order to make sure that we don't make the same mistakes again.  What you were talking about, though, was apologising, and that's not the same thing.

[CBStew]

Tonk.  I would link it but for some reason I can't open the New York Times on line today.  Check out an article in today's Sunday Review section titled "German, Jewish, and Neither."