Single Greatest Thread Ever

[Quality Start Machine]

If Theo & Hoyer are as smart as we think they are, they're thinking 3-4 years down the road for contention.

I hope not. It shouldn't take 3-4 years for a well-run team with massive financial resources (and only $28 million committed in 2013) to compete in a weak division. It might take 3-4 years until their system is in place and the farm starts producing talent, but it won't take that long to be contenders.

I'm talking contention for the whole enchilada. Maine South could compete in this division.

[Eli]

If Theo & Hoyer are as smart as we think they are, they're thinking 3-4 years down the road for contention.

I hope not. It shouldn't take 3-4 years for a well-run team with massive financial resources (and only $28 million committed in 2013) to compete in a weak division. It might take 3-4 years until their system is in place and the farm starts producing talent, but it won't take that long to be contenders.

I'm talking contention for the whole enchilada. Maine South could compete in this division.

There's not really a difference.

[Quality Start Machine]

If Theo & Hoyer are as smart as we think they are, they're thinking 3-4 years down the road for contention.

I hope not. It shouldn't take 3-4 years for a well-run team with massive financial resources (and only $28 million committed in 2013) to compete in a weak division. It might take 3-4 years until their system is in place and the farm starts producing talent, but it won't take that long to be contenders.

I'm talking contention for the whole enchilada. Maine South could compete in this division.

There's not really a difference.

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

[Gilgamesh]

If Theo & Hoyer are as smart as we think they are, they're thinking 3-4 years down the road for contention.

I hope not. It shouldn't take 3-4 years for a well-run team with massive financial resources (and only $28 million committed in 2013) to compete in a weak division. It might take 3-4 years until their system is in place and the farm starts producing talent, but it won't take that long to be contenders.

Which is why meatball callers to sports talk radio need to understand that the Cubs aren't going to throw huge money this year at free agents.  They'll wait until they feel that they are in position to contend and then attract free agents around the team at that point.

Additionally, this is also the reason why they need a manager who shares and understands that long term vision; rather than someone who simply wants to win as many games as he can (which he won't) in a short amount of time with mediocre talent, i.e. Quade.

[Internet Apex]

If Theo & Hoyer are as smart as we think they are, they're thinking 3-4 years down the road for contention.

I hope not. It shouldn't take 3-4 years for a well-run team with massive financial resources (and only $28 million committed in 2013) to compete in a weak division. It might take 3-4 years until their system is in place and the farm starts producing talent, but it won't take that long to be contenders.

Which is why meatball callers to sports talk radio need to understand that the Cubs aren't going to throw huge money this year at free agents.  They'll wait until they feel that they are in position to contend and then attract free agents around the team at that point.

Additionally, this is also the reason why they need a manager who shares and understands that long term vision; rather than someone who simply wants to win as many games as he can (which he won't) in a short amount of time with mediocre talent, i.e. Quade.

Yeah, I'm sure that was how Quade drew it up all those years in the minors. He'll get another shot somewhere sometime. And he's going to win. And every time he plays the Cubs he's going to come in and STICK IT UP OUR FUCKING ASSES.

Perhaps I should rephrase that.

[Tonker]

If Theo & Hoyer are as smart as we think they are, they're thinking 3-4 years down the road for contention.

I hope not. It shouldn't take 3-4 years for a well-run team with massive financial resources (and only $28 million committed in 2013) to compete in a weak division. It might take 3-4 years until their system is in place and the farm starts producing talent, but it won't take that long to be contenders.

Which is why meatball callers to sports talk radio need to understand that the Cubs aren't going to throw huge money this year at free agents.  They'll wait until they feel that they are in position to contend and then attract free agents around the team at that point.

Additionally, this is also the reason why they need a manager who shares and understands that long term vision; rather than someone who simply wants to win as many games as he can (which he won't) in a short amount of time with mediocre talent, i.e. Quade.

Yeah, I'm sure that was how Quade drew it up all those years in the minors. He'll get another shot somewhere sometime. And he's going to win. And every time he plays the Cubs he's going to come in and STICK IT UP OUR FUCKING ASSES.

Perhaps I should rephrase that.

No, you're good.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

[BH]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

It's easy to make it to the world series, so Fork is spot on. Come on luck!

[Quality Start Machine]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

How so? Building a team to win in a shit division isn't the same as building a team to beat the Phillies in the postseason. Sure, things can break a less talented team's way, but you can't rely on it.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

How so? Building a team to win in a shit division isn't the same as building a team to beat the Phillies in the postseason. Sure, things can break a less talented team's way, but you can't rely on it.

You can never have enough pitching.

Winning wins ballgames, ballgames win championships.

[Saul Goodman]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

How so? Building a team to win in a shit division isn't the same as building a team to beat the Phillies in the postseason. Sure, things can break a less talented team's way, but you can't rely on it.

You can never have enough pitching.

Winning wins ballgames, ballgames win championships.

Losing is for losers. So win, because that's for winners. Win.

[Quality Start Machine]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

How so? Building a team to win in a shit division isn't the same as building a team to beat the Phillies in the postseason. Sure, things can break a less talented team's way, but you can't rely on it.

You can never have enough pitching.

Winning wins ballgames, ballgames win championships.

Losing is for losers. So win, because that's for winners. Win.

You gotta have catching, otherwise the ball rolls to the backstop.

[Brownie]

Granted, you've only got to be in it to win it, but if the Cubs were going to get to the Series on dumb luck, it would have happened by now.

This is a pretty idiotic thing to write in any number of ways.

How so? Building a team to win in a shit division isn't the same as building a team to beat the Phillies in the postseason. Sure, things can break a less talented team's way, but you can't rely on it.

Code Select Expand


Year                      Best Team?            WS Champ
2011                      Phillies                     Cardinals  (12)
2010                      Phillies                     Giants   (5)
2009                      Yankees                  Yankees (--)
2008                      Angels                     Phillies (11)
2007                      CLE/BOS                 Red Sox (--)
2006                      Mets/Yanks              Cardinals (14)
2005                       Cardinals                 White Sox (1)
2004                       Cardinals                  Red Sox (7)
2003                       Braves/Yanks            Marlins (10)
2002                         A's/Yanks               Angels (4)
2001                        Mariners                   Diamondbacks (24)
2000                        Giants                      Yankees (10)
1999                        Braves                     Yankees (5)
1998                        Yankees                   Yankees (--)
1997                         Braves                      Marlins (9)

That's all the World Champions (and the guys with the best record in baseball) dating back 15 seasons, since the advent of Interleague play. The World Series champion finished the regular season an average of 7.47 games worse than the best team in baseball. It looks like once a team secures a playoff berth, dumb luck plays a big part.

Let's put aside 2003. If you gave me the power to change just five plays in the 1998 NLDS, the Cubs are rematching the Padres in the NLCS that year. (The Padres, by the way, were lucky to get by the Astros.) I think I'd need only three plays to change and the Cubs would have hosted Game 1 of the 2007 NLCS against the Rockies.

I'd need more than five plays to change the outcome of 2008, but that was a three-game performance so out of character for the team we saw the rest of the year. You go to 2003 and 1984 and 1989, and you might have only needed the power to change a total of five plays and the Cubs would have had three pennants in our lifetimes.

Dumb luck plays a big part in the Cubs history. But here's the other thing you shouldn't ignore: 11 teams appear in the "best team" column. Six have won World Series during that time (Yankees, Phillies, Giants, Red Sox, Angels, Cardinals). Of the other five, Cleveland won a pennant during that period (going seven games), went to the seventh game of another LCS, and won another pennant just two years prior to the beginning of this period; the Mets won a pennant and went to the seventh game of another LCS; and the Braves won a pennant and had come off a World Series win just two years prior to the start of this period. The A's and the Mariners are the luckless ones, but four A's World Championships aren't that distant a memory. As for the Mariners, well, consider that they won their 116 games in 2001 following the departures of  Randy Johnson (mid-1997), Ken Griffey Jr. (end of 1999) and Alex Rodriguez (end of 2000).

What's my point? I'm not sure now, but maybe it has to be that the more often you roll the dice, the better chance you get an epic postseason choke, but also the better chance you win as there seems to be little short-term correlation of a team's regular-season dominance to its post-season success.

Let's look again what Dallas Green did with the Cubs. They were more rancid and less interesting in 1981 than they were in 2011. True story. Green rebuilt them into a semi-contender in 1983 (they were a half game out of first on the morning of July 4th, as the Cubs evidently did get hotter than shit just so Lee Elia could shove it up the ass of the 5,000 nickel-dime people who showed up every day) and a division champion in 1984. This was a quick rebuild job, and by the end of 1988, only Sandberg, Sanderson and Rick Sutcliffe remained. In 1989, the Cubs reaped the true fruit of Dallas Green's system.

That's what to expect, ideally, with Epstein. Build a competitive team that could mount a run for a division title early, and then quietly build a pipeline of young talent to replace the aging team later. I don't think it's out of the question to sign Aramis, especially if Epstein has the freedom to pursue Fielder and a top-line starting pitcher.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Intrepid Reader:  ChubbyJulie

What have you assholes done to this thread?

[Yeti]

Long story short, just be good enough to get to the playoffs, and anything could happen