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Author Topic: Ted Lilly. A Cub.  ( 47,454 )

EG

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM »
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003?  And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

Corn-fed

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2007, 03:40:14 PM »
Quote from: EG on September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003?  And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

... And what was the best of his starts in the '03 playoffs? When he started Game 2 of the NLDS. A no decision, gave up 3 runs.

Kwyjibo

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2007, 03:43:16 PM »
Quote from: EG on September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003?  And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

He was gassed in 2003. He was carrying a good 25 pounds of extra lard, and he was shot by Labor Day.
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DwightKurtz

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2007, 03:46:59 PM »
Quote from: EG on September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003?  And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

Quote from: EG on September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003?  And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

Now that you mention it, Randall Simon was a huge contributor to the 2003 team.  Maybe the Cubs should pick him up for a post season drive.  Same with Eric Karros.  After all, based on their 2003 performances ...

My point is, how he did in 2003 means jack.  Just ask Mark Grace, who came alive in 1989 but stayed asleep in 1998.  Based on his performances in big games this year (the only season that matters), I'd trust the Moose as my #1 playoff guy.
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Internet Apex

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2007, 03:58:21 PM »
2003 was his first full year as a starter in the bigs. He'd hit that rookie wall with an oath but had nothing left.

He seems to lose focus at times. That's when his pitch selection gets dicey, his armslot drops and his velocity dips. That didn't happen in StL the other night or really the other night against Cincy. But against the Dodgers he was all fucked up.

Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't lose focus in these playoffs. I can hope.
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2007, 04:03:01 PM »
Quote from: ~Apex on September 20, 2007, 03:58:21 PM
2003 was his first full year as a starter in the bigs. He'd hit that rookie wall with an oath but had nothing left.

He seems to lose focus at times. That's when his pitch selection gets dicey, his armslot drops and his velocity dips. That didn't happen in StL the other night or really the other night against Cincy. But against the Dodgers he was all fucked up.

Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't lose focus in these playoffs. I can hope.

The exact same thing can be said for Marquis. I'm convinced his giving back runs is nothing more than a lack of concentration. If these two guys can get as locked in as Lilly usually is, any one of us can hold the #4 spot in a playoff rotation.

But, let's fucking get there first.
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Corn-fed

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2007, 04:51:43 PM »
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: EG on September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003? And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

Now that you mention it, Randall Simon was a huge contributor to the 2003 team.  Maybe the Cubs should pick him up for a post season drive.  Same with Eric Karros.  After all, based on their 2003 performances ...

My point is, how he did in 2003 means jack.  Just ask Mark Grace, who came alive in 1989 but stayed asleep in 1998. Based on his performances in big games this year (the only season that matters), I'd trust the Moose as my #1 playoff guy.

Fair enough re: his playoff experience.

What are your thoughts, then, on Opening Day 2005, 2006 and 2007?

bozos72

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2007, 05:01:30 PM »
Opening Day is nothing more than the first of a 162 game season.  To put extra weight on it seems a bit silly.  I would imagine that pitching in the playoffs is nothing like pitching on Opening Day.  Sure, we get all excited about the new season and the players go out there wanting to impress, etc.  But come on.

You can just as easily point to his June/July and how it correlates with a Cubs resurgence.

Zambrano is your number 1 starter because he's the best pitcher.  Period.
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DwightKurtz

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2007, 05:52:30 PM »
Quote from: Corn-fed on September 20, 2007, 04:51:43 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: EG on September 20, 2007, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 02:43:30 PM
I believe that Carlos will be able to control himself in the post season.

Just like he did in 2003? And just like he does on his big Opening Day starts?

Now that you mention it, Randall Simon was a huge contributor to the 2003 team.  Maybe the Cubs should pick him up for a post season drive.  Same with Eric Karros.  After all, based on their 2003 performances ...

My point is, how he did in 2003 means jack.  Just ask Mark Grace, who came alive in 1989 but stayed asleep in 1998. Based on his performances in big games this year (the only season that matters), I'd trust the Moose as my #1 playoff guy.

Fair enough re: his playoff experience.

What are your thoughts, then, on Opening Day 2005, 2006 and 2007?

Seems to me that he's a slow starter.  It's the same criticism with Ramirez.  A-Ram has almost always started slowly, which doesn't mean he isn't a clutch player.  Looking back at the D-Lee injury of last year, people wanted to dog Aramis because he didn't step up, and his heart, commitment, and clutch abilities were definitely called into question.

Was anybody questioning his clutch abilities when he set a Cubs record for most post-season homeruns in 2003?  Has anybody questioned his clutch abilities based on how he's hit this year?  I'm just saying, a slow start doesn't make a guy anti-clutch.  It just makes him a (duh) slow starter.

But don't get me wrong.  If they make it in, I'll definitely be nervous every time Zambrano takes the ball, based on how he did in '03.  I'll be worried that his head will be likely to explode.  Yet, also, I'd still want him pitching the first game, and I'd absolutely want Lilly to be the #2 guy both because Lilly could either clean up his mess, or deliver that nearly fatal one-two blow to our opponent's kidneys.
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butthead

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2007, 06:44:48 PM »
If Z is going to meltdown in the playoffs, we're screwed. It doesn't matter if it is game one or two. He's the most talented. He's the ace. He gets the ball game one.

If we get there.

DwightKurtz

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2007, 07:00:16 PM »
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 06:44:48 PM
If Z is going to meltdown in the playoffs, we're screwed.

Not necessarily, unless Lou is planning on starting him every game.

In a further moment of candor, if opening day was tomorrow, Lilly would be my ace.
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butthead

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2007, 07:36:11 PM »
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 07:00:16 PM
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 06:44:48 PM
If Z is going to meltdown in the playoffs, we're screwed.

Not necessarily, unless Lou is planning on starting him every game.

In a further moment of candor, if opening day was tomorrow, Lilly would be my ace.

Obviously it would still be possible to win the other games even if he loses all his starts. Our best chance to win is when Z is pitching well. If we can't trust him to pitch the first game of a playoff series, I guess that contract was a mistake.

butthead

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2007, 10:13:53 PM »
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 09:35:08 PM
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 07:00:16 PM
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 06:44:48 PM
If Z is going to meltdown in the playoffs, we're screwed.

Not necessarily, unless Lou is planning on starting him every game.

In a further moment of candor, if opening day was tomorrow, Lilly would be my ace.

Obviously it would still be possible to win the other games even if he loses all his starts. Our best chance to win is when Z is pitching well. If we can't trust him to pitch the first game of a playoff series, I guess that contract was a mistake.

Well, I for one think he's the best choice to pitch the first game of the playoffs for reasons previously stated.

As far as everything else goes... we would have to be retarded donkeys to judge the success or failure of the Z contract based on how he performs this post season, should the Cubs make it.

I'm not saying the contract will or won't end up being worth it in the long run if Z sucks this post season. I'm saying that Z needs to live up to the contract now for the post season to be successful. Or something like that.

DwightKurtz

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2007, 10:24:37 PM »
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 09:35:08 PM
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: KurtEvans on September 20, 2007, 07:00:16 PM
Quote from: butthead on September 20, 2007, 06:44:48 PM
If Z is going to meltdown in the playoffs, we're screwed.

Not necessarily, unless Lou is planning on starting him every game.

In a further moment of candor, if opening day was tomorrow, Lilly would be my ace.

Obviously it would still be possible to win the other games even if he loses all his starts. Our best chance to win is when Z is pitching well. If we can't trust him to pitch the first game of a playoff series, I guess that contract was a mistake.

Well, I for one think he's the best choice to pitch the first game of the playoffs for reasons previously stated.

As far as everything else goes... we would have to be retarded donkeys to judge the success or failure of the Z contract based on how he performs this post season, should the Cubs make it.

I'm not saying the contract will or won't end up being worth it in the long run if Z sucks this post season. I'm saying that Z needs to live up to the contract now for the post season to be successful. Or something like that.


Fair enough, and sensible enough from my perspective.  Hopefully he'll only need to start once more this season, but it would go a long way to post season if the Big Moose wins his remaining game(s), if only for the momentum factor.
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The Ghost of Desipio Past

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Re: Ted Lilly. A Cub.
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2007, 09:47:40 AM »
Quote from: bozos72 on September 20, 2007, 05:01:30 PM
Opening Day is nothing more than the first of a 162 game season.  To put extra weight on it seems a bit silly.  I would imagine that pitching in the playoffs is nothing like pitching on Opening Day.  Sure, we get all excited about the new season and the players go out there wanting to impress, etc.  But come on.

You can just as easily point to his June/July and how it correlates with a Cubs resurgence.

Zambrano is your number 1 starter because he's the best pitcher. Period.

You're confusing most talented and/or best stuff with best results.