The only site I'll ever need...

[R-V]

What's so wrong about buying a regular car that runs off dinosaur fossils?

Nothing so long as you realize that the people you are paying for the dinosaur fuels give the money to other people who want to kill you.

Until somebody figures out how to turn fairy dust into automobile fuel and the vehicle it runs on doesn't cost me all three of my nuts, I'll stick with the dinosaurs.

The initial question was whether or not the car would be a BETTER VALUE than a normal car. No one is going to take away your right to own a Canyonero, you reactionary hilljack.

You're looking at a car that's going to cost you about $33,000 out the door. I have no idea what recharging this thing would cost -- either in gasoline or in electricity.

But, figure you can go out and buy a car that get 18-22 MPG in city. Let's say 18. And suppose gas hovers around $3.00.

Construct a math problem.

Let a=cost of 18 MPG car you'd buy instead (or, 0, if you already own such a beast)
Let b=number of miles per year you're planning on driving where your car would be electric only
Let c=cost of recharging the Volt per mile (Chevrolet/Edmond's/Consumer Reports should have this data)

((b/18)*3-(c*b))=d

Let d=annual savings of Volt

Then figure out the number of years you plan on keeping the Volt, factor in if you're financing it, the return you'd get putting what your car payment or the cash you're using to buy the car if you had instead given the money to Lenny Dykstra or some other reputable investor, and try to figure out where gas is going. We all can guess. I'd suggest that we'll see $4.00/gallon gas regularly here in 3 years. In 5 years, $5.00/gallon.

My guess is right now it doesn't justify the cost, unless plan B is a German car or you spend all of your workday driving city streets. However, give it a few years. A hybrid is more financially justifiable now than it was just 5 years ago.

Thanks, Teej. I should clarify - the only reason we'd even consider this car is because

a) both of us use public transportation to get to work, so for us, the majority of our car usage consists of trips less than 40 miles (which means the fuel savings could be significant) and

b) the lease terms look like they could be attractive. Purchase price still too high.

For anyone who has a round-trip commute or daily usage over 40 miles, I agree that an electric doesn't make sense yet.

How many miles would you do a year? 3000? 5000? At 5400 miles in an 18 MPG car, that's 300 gallons. If gas averages $5.00/gallon, you have $1500 in fuel costs. I am too lazy to look up what it costs to recharge the Volt, but if the savings is only $1500/year, the car needs to come down in cost. The lease is $350/mth, no? So you're looking at $4200/year and I don't know if there's a government rebate or tax credit for leasing the car.

As I understand it, the tax credit is already embedded in the lease price. So instead of you getting a check from the gubmint, your monthly lease payment is based on the after-credit price (that's why the lease payment is reasonable even though it's a $40k car).

I've been running some numbers and it looks like the total cost of a $40k Volt is about equal to the total cost of a $25k 25 MPG car. Assuming you drive about 8,000 13,000 electric (local) miles and 2,000 gas (road trip) miles a year.

Math fixed.

[Brownie]

What's the MPG of a Volt Hwy?

[R-V]

What's the MPG of a Volt Hwy?

Can't find it now, but I saw 38 highway MPG earlier.

[PenPho]

What's the MPG of a Volt Hwy?

Can't find it now, but I saw 38 highway MPG earlier.

The Volt's MPG is as of yet unknown, though expected to be somewhat less than the 230 MPG G.M. originally announced.

Vague enough for you?

Link.

[Powdered Toast Man]

What's so wrong about buying a regular car that runs off dinosaur fossils?

Nothing so long as you realize that the people you are paying for the dinosaur fuels give the money to other people who want to kill you.

Until somebody figures out how to turn fairy dust into automobile fuel and the vehicle it runs on doesn't cost me all three of my nuts, I'll stick with the dinosaurs.

The initial question was whether or not the car would be a BETTER VALUE than a normal car. No one is going to take away your right to own a Canyonero, you reactionary hilljack.

You're looking at a car that's going to cost you about $33,000 out the door. I have no idea what recharging this thing would cost -- either in gasoline or in electricity.

But, figure you can go out and buy a car that get 18-22 MPG in city. Let's say 18. And suppose gas hovers around $3.00.

Construct a math problem.

Let a=cost of 18 MPG car you'd buy instead (or, 0, if you already own such a beast)
Let b=number of miles per year you're planning on driving where your car would be electric only
Let c=cost of recharging the Volt per mile (Chevrolet/Edmond's/Consumer Reports should have this data)

((b/18)*3-(c*b))=d

Let d=annual savings of Volt

Then figure out the number of years you plan on keeping the Volt, factor in if you're financing it, the return you'd get putting what your car payment or the cash you're using to buy the car if you had instead given the money to Lenny Dykstra or some other reputable investor, and try to figure out where gas is going. We all can guess. I'd suggest that we'll see $4.00/gallon gas regularly here in 3 years. In 5 years, $5.00/gallon.

My guess is right now it doesn't justify the cost, unless plan B is a German car or you spend all of your workday driving city streets. However, give it a few years. A hybrid is more financially justifiable now than it was just 5 years ago.

Thanks, Teej. I should clarify - the only reason we'd even consider this car is because

a) both of us use public transportation to get to work, so for us, the majority of our car usage consists of trips less than 40 miles (which means the fuel savings could be significant) and

b) the lease terms look like they could be attractive. Purchase price still too high.

For anyone who has a round-trip commute or daily usage over 40 miles, I agree that an electric doesn't make sense yet.

How many miles would you do a year? 3000? 5000? At 5400 miles in an 18 MPG car, that's 300 gallons. If gas averages $5.00/gallon, you have $1500 in fuel costs. I am too lazy to look up what it costs to recharge the Volt, but if the savings is only $1500/year, the car needs to come down in cost. The lease is $350/mth, no? So you're looking at $4200/year and I don't know if there's a government rebate or tax credit for leasing the car.

As I understand it, the tax credit is already embedded in the lease price. So instead of you getting a check from the gubmint, your monthly lease payment is based on the after-credit price (that's why the lease payment is reasonable even though it's a $40k car).

I've been running some numbers and it looks like the total cost of a $40k Volt is about equal to the total cost of a $25k 25 MPG car. Assuming you drive about 8,000 electric (local) miles and 2,000 gas (road trip) miles a year.

Wait, it's a lease?

[R-V]

What's so wrong about buying a regular car that runs off dinosaur fossils?

Nothing so long as you realize that the people you are paying for the dinosaur fuels give the money to other people who want to kill you.

Until somebody figures out how to turn fairy dust into automobile fuel and the vehicle it runs on doesn't cost me all three of my nuts, I'll stick with the dinosaurs.

The initial question was whether or not the car would be a BETTER VALUE than a normal car. No one is going to take away your right to own a Canyonero, you reactionary hilljack.

You're looking at a car that's going to cost you about $33,000 out the door. I have no idea what recharging this thing would cost -- either in gasoline or in electricity.

But, figure you can go out and buy a car that get 18-22 MPG in city. Let's say 18. And suppose gas hovers around $3.00.

Construct a math problem.

Let a=cost of 18 MPG car you'd buy instead (or, 0, if you already own such a beast)
Let b=number of miles per year you're planning on driving where your car would be electric only
Let c=cost of recharging the Volt per mile (Chevrolet/Edmond's/Consumer Reports should have this data)

((b/18)*3-(c*b))=d

Let d=annual savings of Volt

Then figure out the number of years you plan on keeping the Volt, factor in if you're financing it, the return you'd get putting what your car payment or the cash you're using to buy the car if you had instead given the money to Lenny Dykstra or some other reputable investor, and try to figure out where gas is going. We all can guess. I'd suggest that we'll see $4.00/gallon gas regularly here in 3 years. In 5 years, $5.00/gallon.

My guess is right now it doesn't justify the cost, unless plan B is a German car or you spend all of your workday driving city streets. However, give it a few years. A hybrid is more financially justifiable now than it was just 5 years ago.

Thanks, Teej. I should clarify - the only reason we'd even consider this car is because

a) both of us use public transportation to get to work, so for us, the majority of our car usage consists of trips less than 40 miles (which means the fuel savings could be significant) and

b) the lease terms look like they could be attractive. Purchase price still too high.

For anyone who has a round-trip commute or daily usage over 40 miles, I agree that an electric doesn't make sense yet.

How many miles would you do a year? 3000? 5000? At 5400 miles in an 18 MPG car, that's 300 gallons. If gas averages $5.00/gallon, you have $1500 in fuel costs. I am too lazy to look up what it costs to recharge the Volt, but if the savings is only $1500/year, the car needs to come down in cost. The lease is $350/mth, no? So you're looking at $4200/year and I don't know if there's a government rebate or tax credit for leasing the car.

As I understand it, the tax credit is already embedded in the lease price. So instead of you getting a check from the gubmint, your monthly lease payment is based on the after-credit price (that's why the lease payment is reasonable even though it's a $40k car).

I've been running some numbers and it looks like the total cost of a $40k Volt is about equal to the total cost of a $25k 25 MPG car. Assuming you drive about 8,000 electric (local) miles and 2,000 gas (road trip) miles a year.

Wait, it's a lease?

You can buy it for $40k, or lease it for 3 years for $2500 down and $350/month.

[Gilgamesh]

It might be worth looking into the Nissan Leaf, if you are looking at just intracity/intraregional commuting.  100 miles per charge, no gas engine.  It'll run about 33k before rebates.

[PenPho]

It might be worth looking into the Nissan Leaf, if you are looking at just intracity/intraregional commuting.  100 miles per charge, no gas engine.  It'll run about 33k before rebates.

The Nissan is a fantastic choice if you don't give a shit about customer service.

/Bitter Nissan driver

[Powdered Toast Man]

Look, I gave y'all shit about the hippie cars before and I apologize.  It's not a bad thing to try to do things a little cleaner and save some cash money in the process.  My one MAJOR complaint about these vehicles is why do the manufacturers feel the need to make then look like buttcruising fagmobile queercycles?

[Gilgamesh]

Look, I gave y'all shit about the hippie cars before and I apologize.  It's not a bad thing to try to do things a little cleaner and save some cash money in the process.  My one MAJOR complaint about these vehicles is why do the manufacturers feel the need to make then look like buttcruising fagmobile queercycles?

My Prius looks pretty cool. I think the redesigned 2010 version was a significant improvement over previous models. They lowered the drag coefficient to .25 so it helps with the overall profile of the car. The Fusion hybrid, Escape hybrid, Malibu hybrid and now the Volt all look pretty standard. The Smart cars are the ones that look godawful.

[Quality Start Machine]

Look, I gave y'all shit about the hippie cars before and I apologize.  It's not a bad thing to try to do things a little cleaner and save some cash money in the process.  My one MAJOR complaint about these vehicles is why do the manufacturers feel the need to make then look like buttcruising fagmobile queercycles?

My Prius looks pretty cool. I think the redesigned 2010 version was a significant improvement over previous models. They lowered the drag coefficient to .25 so it helps with the overall profile of the car. The Fusion hybrid, Escape hybrid, Malibu hybrid and now the Volt all look pretty standard. The Smart cars are the ones that look godawful.

The Camry Hybrid looks the same as the standard one. Same thing with the Lexus ones.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Look, I gave y'all shit about the hippie cars before and I apologize.  It's not a bad thing to try to do things a little cleaner and save some cash money in the process.  My one MAJOR complaint about these vehicles is why do the manufacturers feel the need to make then look like buttcruising fagmobile queercycles?

My Prius looks pretty cool. I think the redesigned 2010 version was a significant improvement over previous models. They lowered the drag coefficient to .25 so it helps with the overall profile of the car. The Fusion hybrid, Escape hybrid, Malibu hybrid and now the Volt all look pretty standard. The Smart cars are the ones that look godawful.

I GISed the Leaf from Nissan and that thing looks terrible.  After looking at the Volt, I'd say it ain't half bad.  You're right about the Smart cars.  How are those things safe?  It's like riding in a birdcage or something.

Fork's right about the hybrids.  Most of those models and "flex fuel" model vehicles are starting to finally look like their more standard counterparts.  Thank God.

[morpheus]

Sorry I missed all the Volt discussion.  My opinion is that if you're going to keep the driving short-range, it's not a bad deal for you.  I wonder about the environmental impact, since much of the electric power in this country is still produced by burning coal, but I don't know enough about the relative emissions per unit of energy produced.  It's still a shitty deal in an economic sense, since the actual cost Government Motors incurred for making the car didn't change, all that changed was that effectively the government decided to bestow some money upon you for buying the car, thus lowering the price you paid for it.  They got that money from the taxpayer, or they borrowed it from taxpayers' future tax payments, since governments don't have their own wealth or resources but are simply transfer agents.

[Gilgamesh]

Sorry I missed all the Volt discussion.  My opinion is that if you're going to keep the driving short-range, it's not a bad deal for you.  I wonder about the environmental impact, since much of the electric power in this country is still produced by burning coal, but I don't know enough about the relative emissions per unit of energy produced.  It's still a shitty deal in an economic sense, since the actual cost Government Motors incurred for making the car didn't change, all that changed was that effectively the government decided to bestow some money upon you for buying the car, thus lowering the price you paid for it.  They got that money from the taxpayer, or they borrowed it from taxpayers' future tax payments, since governments don't have their own wealth or resources but are simply transfer agents.

There's a whole lot of stick poking in this post.  Well done.

Though I'd agree with a shift away from coal plants towards more nuke plants.

[Bort]

Sorry I missed all the Volt discussion.  My opinion is that if you're going to keep the driving short-range, it's not a bad deal for you.  I wonder about the environmental impact, since much of the electric power in this country is still produced by burning coal, but I don't know enough about the relative emissions per unit of energy produced.  It's still a shitty deal in an economic sense, since the actual cost Government Motors incurred for making the car didn't change, all that changed was that effectively the government decided to bestow some money upon you for buying the car, thus lowering the price you paid for it.  They got that money from the taxpayer, or they borrowed it from taxpayers' future tax payments, since governments don't have their own wealth or resources but are simply transfer agents.

There's a whole lot of stick poking in this post.  Well done.

Though I'd agree with a shift away from coal plants towards more nuke plants.

Oddly, so would I. And I'm apparently some sort of bomb-throwing radical.