"Turd Throw" and other stories from the rancid NLC.

[Saul Goodman]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

Feliz is basically "better Grimm". He's also the only guy with a WHIP under 1.

They're going to be 15 back by this time next week, and 5-6 behind for the Seligcard. They're going to be sellers pretty quickly.

My point is if you're scouring the majors for bullpen help I'd just look elsewhere than the Pirates entirely unless they were willing to move Melancon to a division rival.

My bullpen wishlist at this point is Andrew Miller, Sean Doolittle, or Fernando Abad, in that order. Abad would certainly cost less than the other two (or three if you include Chapman) and he's currently holding lefties to .097/.125/.133

This list is the shit. With Betances somewhere on it too.

[ChuckD]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

Feliz is basically "better Grimm". He's also the only guy with a WHIP under 1.

They're going to be 15 back by this time next week, and 5-6 behind for the Seligcard. They're going to be sellers pretty quickly.

My point is if you're scouring the majors for bullpen help I'd just look elsewhere than the Pirates entirely unless they were willing to move Melancon to a division rival.

My bullpen wishlist at this point is Andrew Miller, Sean Doolittle, or Fernando Abad, in that order. Abad would certainly cost less than the other two (or three if you include Chapman) and he's currently holding lefties to .097/.125/.133

This list is the shit. With Betances somewhere on it too.

Preferably at the top.

[Saul Goodman]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

Feliz is basically "better Grimm". He's also the only guy with a WHIP under 1.

They're going to be 15 back by this time next week, and 5-6 behind for the Seligcard. They're going to be sellers pretty quickly.

My point is if you're scouring the majors for bullpen help I'd just look elsewhere than the Pirates entirely unless they were willing to move Melancon to a division rival.

My bullpen wishlist at this point is Andrew Miller, Sean Doolittle, or Fernando Abad, in that order. Abad would certainly cost less than the other two (or three if you include Chapman) and he's currently holding lefties to .097/.125/.133

This list is the shit. With Betances somewhere on it too.

Preferably at the top.

I'll allow it.

[SKO]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

[PenFoe]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

The Reds announcers just said that Hoover was sent down right after last night's game.  

"He packed up all his stuff, didn't look like he'd be back anytime soon."

Granted, I didn't know that leaving some stuff behind was an option, but I think we've seen the last of Hoover for a while.  

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

[SKO]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

He is the Pujols to Hoover's Brad Lidge.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

He is the Pujols to Hoover's Brad Lidge.

Didn't Lidge go on to be the closer for the 2008 world champion Phillies?

[Brownie]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

The Reds announcers just said that Hoover was sent down right after last night's game.  

"He packed up all his stuff, didn't look like he'd be back anytime soon."

Granted, I didn't know that leaving some stuff behind was an option, but I think we've seen the last of Hoover for a while.  

[SKO]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

He is the Pujols to Hoover's Brad Lidge.

Didn't Lidge go on to be the closer for the 2008 world champion Phillies?

He did, but he had a 4.37 ERA in 2006-2007 right after Pujols shot vs a 2.07 ERA in the 2 years before. I don't actually know that I think Pujols really broke him or if he had unrelated issues, he's just definitely the example I think of as far as "guy who gave up a massive homer to lose a game and seemed broken afterwards".

Well him and that Angels dude from the 80s who shot himself.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

He is the Pujols to Hoover's Brad Lidge.

Didn't Lidge go on to be the closer for the 2008 world champion Phillies?

He did, but he had a 4.37 ERA in 2006-2007 right after Pujols shot vs a 2.07 ERA in the 2 years before. I don't actually know that I think Pujols really broke him or if he had unrelated issues, he's just definitely the example I think of as far as "guy who gave up a massive homer to lose a game and seemed broken afterwards".

Well him and that Angels dude from the 80s who shot himself.

That'd be ex-Cub Donnie Moore to you.

There's also Tom Niedenfuer (sp.) vis-a-vis Jack Clark, '85 NLCS.

[Brownie]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

He is the Pujols to Hoover's Brad Lidge.

Didn't Lidge go on to be the closer for the 2008 world champion Phillies?

He did, but he had a 4.37 ERA in 2006-2007 right after Pujols shot vs a 2.07 ERA in the 2 years before. I don't actually know that I think Pujols really broke him or if he had unrelated issues, he's just definitely the example I think of as far as "guy who gave up a massive homer to lose a game and seemed broken afterwards".

Well him and that Angels dude from the 80s who shot himself.

That'd be ex-Cub Donnie Moore to you.

There's also Tom Niedenfuer (sp.) vis-a-vis Jack Clark, '85 NLCS.

How about ex-Cub Joe Carter wrecking ex-Cub Mitch Williams?

Some others:
Atlee Hamaker post-Freddie Lynn All-Star Game grand slam at Comiskey, 1983
Mike Torrez post-Bucky Dent
Joaquin Andujar post-1985 World Series

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

As I watched Hoover struggling for the Reds last night I remembered that he was actually having a career year last year before Schwarber wrecked him, and was considered the heir apparent to Chapman as the closer, and now he's the Reds terrible mop up guy.

So I looked it up and before the Schwarber Game last year Hoover had a 3.05 career ERA and a 1.30 ERA in 2015 and averaged just under 1 HR/9 innings. Since Schwarber wrecked his very soul he's got a 9.29 ERA, an 8.35 FIP, and has allowed nearly 3.5 dingers per 9 innings.

I, too, had similar thoughts.  IIRC, Hoover had only allowed 1 HR all year before Schwarber went yard to tie that game on him and it had seemed to me that every time Hoover's pitched since that moment he's been brutal.

Kyle Schwarber:  Destroyer of Careers

He is the Pujols to Hoover's Brad Lidge.

Didn't Lidge go on to be the closer for the 2008 world champion Phillies?

He did, but he had a 4.37 ERA in 2006-2007 right after Pujols shot vs a 2.07 ERA in the 2 years before. I don't actually know that I think Pujols really broke him or if he had unrelated issues, he's just definitely the example I think of as far as "guy who gave up a massive homer to lose a game and seemed broken afterwards".

Well him and that Angels dude from the 80s who shot himself.

That'd be ex-Cub Donnie Moore to you.

There's also Tom Niedenfuer (sp.) vis-a-vis Jack Clark, '85 NLCS.

How about ex-Cub Joe Carter wrecking ex-Cub Mitch Williams?

Some others:
Atlee Hamaker post-Freddie Lynn All-Star Game grand slam at Comiskey, 1983
Mike Torrez post-Bucky Dent
Joaquin Andujar post-1985 World Series

That Hammaker was one we were all over.  It seemed he just fell off a cliff after that--although it could be said that Hammaker's ascension was so rapid that his very appearance in the ASG was a fluke....however I remember Hammaker as one of the 3 players featured on the 1981 or 1982 Topps Prospect Cards so he was definitely well-regarded coming up, and maybe he put it together and was well on his way and suddenly the humiliation of serving up the first (and still, only, I believe) grand slam in an All-Star game, while leading the National League to their first lose in nearly a decade was too much for him to overcome.

These were all good selections though....I'll only add that my main memory of Mike Torrez post-Bucky Dent was when he drilled Dickie Thon in the face early in 1983 or 1984 right after Thon's breakout season the year before, thus basically destroying Thon's burgeoning career but for real.

[Grandmaster Wang]

Eric Show. And Andre didn't even need a bat.

[Slaky]

Eric Show. And Andre didn't even need a bat.

/discussion