"Turd Throw" and other stories from the rancid NLC.

[Slaky]

I think this weekend may have temporarily moved Pittsburgh ahead of St. Louis in my schadenfreude rankings. These fake tough guy assholes need can rot.

It's amusing. I guess the Cubs and Cards need to play 10-12 times in a month to see if this becomes a dual theater war. Right now, this Cubs-Pirates thing is getting pretty serious and I am really happy about that.

I remain convinced that these are just meatball Steelers fans who haven't figured out how to adjust to baseball yet because their response to literally fucking everything is just "HIT SOMEBODY, SHOW EM WE'RE TUFF"

I'm convinced it's the players on the Pirates that are driving this bus, and the fans are in line ready to ride with em. If the Pirates weren't so goddamn sore about getting dongwhipped across the midwest so far this year I doubt this becomes what it has. Long time Pirates fans are basically "Oh god the window is closing, ownership is still cheap, this rotation is a joke, etc."

Sucks their new window is "remember that year or two where we thought we could continue to compete with the Cubs before everything fell apart again."

And don't give me this Tallion and Glasnow shit. There's no way BOTH of them come up and immediately become Garrett Cole.

[SKO]

I think this weekend may have temporarily moved Pittsburgh ahead of St. Louis in my schadenfreude rankings. These fake tough guy assholes need can rot.

It's amusing. I guess the Cubs and Cards need to play 10-12 times in a month to see if this becomes a dual theater war. Right now, this Cubs-Pirates thing is getting pretty serious and I am really happy about that.

I remain convinced that these are just meatball Steelers fans who haven't figured out how to adjust to baseball yet because their response to literally fucking everything is just "HIT SOMEBODY, SHOW EM WE'RE TUFF"

I'm convinced it's the players on the Pirates that are driving this bus, and the fans are in line ready to ride with em. If the Pirates weren't so goddamn sore about getting dongwhipped across the midwest so far this year I doubt this becomes what it has. Long time Pirates fans are basically "Oh god the window is closing, ownership is still cheap, this rotation is a joke, etc."

Sucks their new window is "remember that year or two where we thought we could continue to compete with the Cubs before everything fell apart again."

And don't give me this Tallion and Glasnow shit. There's no way BOTH of them come up and immediately become Garrett Cole.

Even if they are (and they are not, Glasnow has averaged over 4 BB/9 at almost every stop in the upper minors, I'd love to see him get through this Cubs lineup without his arm falling off), Cervelli is a FA this year, McCutchen is hitting his 30s, apparently can't really play a solid CF anymore (defensive metrics have their issues but none of them like him in CF anymore) and only has 2 years left on his deal. Kang was a nice find (although I still don't buy that he can keep up the success he's had while striking out 5 times for every walk) but he's also going to be 30 next year and has a bad knee thanks to our man Coghlan. Their window is still shrinking and they can't afford to deal prospects for short term help and can't spend money to upgrade. They're done, and they know it.

[Oleg]

I think this weekend may have temporarily moved Pittsburgh ahead of St. Louis in my schadenfreude rankings. These fake tough guy assholes need can rot.

It's amusing. I guess the Cubs and Cards need to play 10-12 times in a month to see if this becomes a dual theater war. Right now, this Cubs-Pirates thing is getting pretty serious and I am really happy about that.

I remain convinced that these are just meatball Steelers fans who haven't figured out how to adjust to baseball yet because their response to literally fucking everything is just "HIT SOMEBODY, SHOW EM WE'RE TUFF"

I'm convinced it's the players on the Pirates that are driving this bus, and the fans are in line ready to ride with em. If the Pirates weren't so goddamn sore about getting dongwhipped across the midwest so far this year I doubt this becomes what it has. Long time Pirates fans are basically "Oh god the window is closing, ownership is still cheap, this rotation is a joke, etc."

Sucks their new window is "remember that year or two where we thought we could continue to compete with the Cubs before everything fell apart again."

And don't give me this Tallion and Glasnow shit. There's no way BOTH of them come up and immediately become Garrett Cole.

Even if they are (and they are not, Glasnow has averaged over 4 BB/9 at almost every stop in the upper minors, I'd love to see him get through this Cubs lineup without his arm falling off), Cervelli is a FA this year, McCutchen is hitting his 30s, apparently can't really play a solid CF anymore (defensive metrics have their issues but none of them like him in CF anymore) and only has 2 years left on his deal. Kang was a nice find (although I still don't buy that he can keep up the success he's had while striking out 5 times for every walk) but he's also going to be 30 next year and has a bad knee thanks to our man Coghlan. Their window is still shrinking and they can't afford to deal prospects for short term help and can't spend money to upgrade. They're done, and they know it.

They also don't seem to be doing much on the international market (and that market may be pretty well played out with teams realizing it's a nice, easy way to infuse talent into a system).

Counterpoint:
Having said (and read) all of that, I do find that to be a pretty cynical look at The Pirates.  While I agree that The Cubs are just way better at everything baseball now and in the near future, The Pirates aren't quite cooked yet.

McCutchen is still awesome and his bat puts him squarely as one of the better CF in baseball, no matter what the defensive metrics say.  They still have two amazing corner outfielders, either of whom could probably play CF pretty well once Cutch moves to a corner.

Cole is till years away from free agency (as are the aforementioned Marte and Polanco).

For $4MM per year, Kang is still very much a player with a ton of surplus value, no matter how much he strikes out.

Josh Harrison is still good and cheap, too.

This is very much a small market team that has found value everywhere (mostly in their own pitching coach wizard).  The front office is smart and young, too.  They'll never have the resources of The Cubs and I'm not very worried about them being a real rival for the Central this year or in the near future but to just dismiss them kind of misses the point, too.

[SKO]

I think this weekend may have temporarily moved Pittsburgh ahead of St. Louis in my schadenfreude rankings. These fake tough guy assholes need can rot.

It's amusing. I guess the Cubs and Cards need to play 10-12 times in a month to see if this becomes a dual theater war. Right now, this Cubs-Pirates thing is getting pretty serious and I am really happy about that.

I remain convinced that these are just meatball Steelers fans who haven't figured out how to adjust to baseball yet because their response to literally fucking everything is just "HIT SOMEBODY, SHOW EM WE'RE TUFF"

I'm convinced it's the players on the Pirates that are driving this bus, and the fans are in line ready to ride with em. If the Pirates weren't so goddamn sore about getting dongwhipped across the midwest so far this year I doubt this becomes what it has. Long time Pirates fans are basically "Oh god the window is closing, ownership is still cheap, this rotation is a joke, etc."

Sucks their new window is "remember that year or two where we thought we could continue to compete with the Cubs before everything fell apart again."

And don't give me this Tallion and Glasnow shit. There's no way BOTH of them come up and immediately become Garrett Cole.

Even if they are (and they are not, Glasnow has averaged over 4 BB/9 at almost every stop in the upper minors, I'd love to see him get through this Cubs lineup without his arm falling off), Cervelli is a FA this year, McCutchen is hitting his 30s, apparently can't really play a solid CF anymore (defensive metrics have their issues but none of them like him in CF anymore) and only has 2 years left on his deal. Kang was a nice find (although I still don't buy that he can keep up the success he's had while striking out 5 times for every walk) but he's also going to be 30 next year and has a bad knee thanks to our man Coghlan. Their window is still shrinking and they can't afford to deal prospects for short term help and can't spend money to upgrade. They're done, and they know it.

They also don't seem to be doing much on the international market (and that market may be pretty well played out with teams realizing it's a nice, easy way to infuse talent into a system).

Counterpoint:
Having said (and read) all of that, I do find that to be a pretty cynical look at The Pirates.  While I agree that The Cubs are just way better at everything baseball now and in the near future, The Pirates aren't quite cooked yet.

McCutchen is still awesome and his bat puts him squarely as one of the better CF in baseball, no matter what the defensive metrics say.  They still have two amazing corner outfielders, either of whom could probably play CF pretty well once Cutch moves to a corner.

Cole is till years away from free agency (as are the aforementioned Marte and Polanco).

For $4MM per year, Kang is still very much a player with a ton of surplus value, no matter how much he strikes out.

Josh Harrison is still good and cheap, too.

This is very much a small market team that has found value everywhere (mostly in their own pitching coach wizard).  The front office is smart and young, too.  They'll never have the resources of The Cubs and I'm not very worried about them being a real rival for the Central this year or in the near future but to just dismiss them kind of misses the point, too.

Yeah to be clear "they're done" meant "they are not a threat to us". They can probably contend for the wildcard for a few years more, in fact I hope they do it this year. Watching them get shut out by Thor or Strasburg/Scherzer in yet another play in game will be most delicious. This division just belongs to us now. Let them mudfuck the Cardinals for second.

[Saul Goodman]

I think this weekend may have temporarily moved Pittsburgh ahead of St. Louis in my schadenfreude rankings. These fake tough guy assholes need can rot.

It's amusing. I guess the Cubs and Cards need to play 10-12 times in a month to see if this becomes a dual theater war. Right now, this Cubs-Pirates thing is getting pretty serious and I am really happy about that.

I remain convinced that these are just meatball Steelers fans who haven't figured out how to adjust to baseball yet because their response to literally fucking everything is just "HIT SOMEBODY, SHOW EM WE'RE TUFF"

I'm convinced it's the players on the Pirates that are driving this bus, and the fans are in line ready to ride with em. If the Pirates weren't so goddamn sore about getting dongwhipped across the midwest so far this year I doubt this becomes what it has. Long time Pirates fans are basically "Oh god the window is closing, ownership is still cheap, this rotation is a joke, etc."

Sucks their new window is "remember that year or two where we thought we could continue to compete with the Cubs before everything fell apart again."

And don't give me this Tallion and Glasnow shit. There's no way BOTH of them come up and immediately become Garrett Cole.

Even if they are (and they are not, Glasnow has averaged over 4 BB/9 at almost every stop in the upper minors, I'd love to see him get through this Cubs lineup without his arm falling off), Cervelli is a FA this year, McCutchen is hitting his 30s, apparently can't really play a solid CF anymore (defensive metrics have their issues but none of them like him in CF anymore) and only has 2 years left on his deal. Kang was a nice find (although I still don't buy that he can keep up the success he's had while striking out 5 times for every walk) but he's also going to be 30 next year and has a bad knee thanks to our man Coghlan. Their window is still shrinking and they can't afford to deal prospects for short term help and can't spend money to upgrade. They're done, and they know it.

They also don't seem to be doing much on the international market (and that market may be pretty well played out with teams realizing it's a nice, easy way to infuse talent into a system).

Counterpoint:
Having said (and read) all of that, I do find that to be a pretty cynical look at The Pirates.  While I agree that The Cubs are just way better at everything baseball now and in the near future, The Pirates aren't quite cooked yet.

McCutchen is still awesome and his bat puts him squarely as one of the better CF in baseball, no matter what the defensive metrics say.  They still have two amazing corner outfielders, either of whom could probably play CF pretty well once Cutch moves to a corner.

Cole is till years away from free agency (as are the aforementioned Marte and Polanco).

For $4MM per year, Kang is still very much a player with a ton of surplus value, no matter how much he strikes out.

Josh Harrison is still good and cheap, too.

This is very much a small market team that has found value everywhere (mostly in their own pitching coach wizard).  The front office is smart and young, too.  They'll never have the resources of The Cubs and I'm not very worried about them being a real rival for the Central this year or in the near future but to just dismiss them kind of misses the point, too.

Yeah to be clear "they're done" meant "they are not a threat to us". They can probably contend for the wildcard for a few years more, in fact I hope they do it this year. Watching them get shut out by Thor or Strasburg/Scherzer in yet another play in game will be most delicious. This division just belongs to us now. Let them mudfuck the Cardinals for second.

Dagnabit do I love Syndergaard.  Get him in Chicago, stat.  I DON'T CARE HOW IRRATIONAL IT IS

[SKO]

I think this weekend may have temporarily moved Pittsburgh ahead of St. Louis in my schadenfreude rankings. These fake tough guy assholes need can rot.

It's amusing. I guess the Cubs and Cards need to play 10-12 times in a month to see if this becomes a dual theater war. Right now, this Cubs-Pirates thing is getting pretty serious and I am really happy about that.

I remain convinced that these are just meatball Steelers fans who haven't figured out how to adjust to baseball yet because their response to literally fucking everything is just "HIT SOMEBODY, SHOW EM WE'RE TUFF"

I'm convinced it's the players on the Pirates that are driving this bus, and the fans are in line ready to ride with em. If the Pirates weren't so goddamn sore about getting dongwhipped across the midwest so far this year I doubt this becomes what it has. Long time Pirates fans are basically "Oh god the window is closing, ownership is still cheap, this rotation is a joke, etc."

Sucks their new window is "remember that year or two where we thought we could continue to compete with the Cubs before everything fell apart again."

And don't give me this Tallion and Glasnow shit. There's no way BOTH of them come up and immediately become Garrett Cole.

Even if they are (and they are not, Glasnow has averaged over 4 BB/9 at almost every stop in the upper minors, I'd love to see him get through this Cubs lineup without his arm falling off), Cervelli is a FA this year, McCutchen is hitting his 30s, apparently can't really play a solid CF anymore (defensive metrics have their issues but none of them like him in CF anymore) and only has 2 years left on his deal. Kang was a nice find (although I still don't buy that he can keep up the success he's had while striking out 5 times for every walk) but he's also going to be 30 next year and has a bad knee thanks to our man Coghlan. Their window is still shrinking and they can't afford to deal prospects for short term help and can't spend money to upgrade. They're done, and they know it.

They also don't seem to be doing much on the international market (and that market may be pretty well played out with teams realizing it's a nice, easy way to infuse talent into a system).

Counterpoint:
Having said (and read) all of that, I do find that to be a pretty cynical look at The Pirates.  While I agree that The Cubs are just way better at everything baseball now and in the near future, The Pirates aren't quite cooked yet.

McCutchen is still awesome and his bat puts him squarely as one of the better CF in baseball, no matter what the defensive metrics say.  They still have two amazing corner outfielders, either of whom could probably play CF pretty well once Cutch moves to a corner.

Cole is till years away from free agency (as are the aforementioned Marte and Polanco).

For $4MM per year, Kang is still very much a player with a ton of surplus value, no matter how much he strikes out.

Josh Harrison is still good and cheap, too.

This is very much a small market team that has found value everywhere (mostly in their own pitching coach wizard).  The front office is smart and young, too.  They'll never have the resources of The Cubs and I'm not very worried about them being a real rival for the Central this year or in the near future but to just dismiss them kind of misses the point, too.

Yeah to be clear "they're done" meant "they are not a threat to us". They can probably contend for the wildcard for a few years more, in fact I hope they do it this year. Watching them get shut out by Thor or Strasburg/Scherzer in yet another play in game will be most delicious. This division just belongs to us now. Let them mudfuck the Cardinals for second.

Dagnabit do I love Syndergaard.  Get him in Chicago, stat.  I DON'T CARE HOW IRRATIONAL IT IS

I don't care how bad of a person it makes me, he fucking terrifies me and I want his arm to pop off after one of his 95 MPH sliders. DeGrom has lost some velocity, Harvey looks like shit, Matz is already having arm trouble. The only one of them I truly fear in a postseason series now is Thor, and it will be very un-fucking-fair if the Baseball Gods leave that dude's elbow in one piece after depriving me of a satisfying career arc for Kerry Wood.

[Quality Start Machine]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

[SKO]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

[Quality Start Machine]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

[Canadouche]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

[SKO]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

[Quality Start Machine]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

Feliz is basically "better Grimm". He's also the only guy with a WHIP under 1.

They're going to be 15 back by this time next week, and 5-6 behind for the Seligcard. They're going to be sellers pretty quickly.

[SKO]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

Feliz is basically "better Grimm". He's also the only guy with a WHIP under 1.

They're going to be 15 back by this time next week, and 5-6 behind for the Seligcard. They're going to be sellers pretty quickly.

My point is if you're scouring the majors for bullpen help I'd just look elsewhere than the Pirates entirely unless they were willing to move Melancon to a division rival.

My bullpen wishlist at this point is Andrew Miller, Sean Doolittle, or Fernando Abad, in that order. Abad would certainly cost less than the other two (or three if you include Chapman) and he's currently holding lefties to .097/.125/.133

[Quality Start Machine]

Jesus, what the fuck happened to the Pirates?

It turns out going into the season with only one good starting pitcher is a bad idea, especially when that guy gets hurt?

They bought into their own hype about Searage being a miracle worker as a pitching coach and thought they could make guys like Nicaso and Niese work at least in the short term while Taillon and Glasnow got ready in the minors. It didn't work. People have also stopped chasing Francisco Liriano's bullshit outside of the strike zone so he's getting crushed. Their bullpen was unrealistically awesome for most of last year and between losing Bastardo to free agency and regression from guys like Caminero they can no longer make up for their shortcomings in the rotation with shutdown innings from the pen.

Long story short, they no pitch so good.

Cool, let's take Feliz off their hands.

I suspect they aren't out of it yet, although they obviously lack the pitching to go deep.

I'm not sure why Fork even wants Feliz. The guy has a 3.80 FIP and was also complete ass last year. There are a lot better relievers on the market. Assuming Justin Grimm rights the ship like he did last year Feliz would be like the 5th best right hander in the Cubs pen.

Feliz is basically "better Grimm". He's also the only guy with a WHIP under 1.

They're going to be 15 back by this time next week, and 5-6 behind for the Seligcard. They're going to be sellers pretty quickly.

My point is if you're scouring the majors for bullpen help I'd just look elsewhere than the Pirates entirely unless they were willing to move Melancon to a division rival.

My bullpen wishlist at this point is Andrew Miller, Sean Doolittle, or Fernando Abad, in that order. Abad would certainly cost less than the other two (or three if you include Chapman) and he's currently holding lefties to .097/.125/.133

Abad has Jepstink written all over him. I also wouldn't be opposed to the return of Fernando Rodney.

[SKO]

As we were saying: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-pirates-lousy-weekend-might-have-sunk-their-season/