Pollyellon banned me

[J. Walter Weatherman]

Bonk can't help it if everyone around here has Adam Dunn's dong hanging out of their mouths.

[Gilgamesh]

Is this the thread where we speculate about how absolutely fucking terrible the Cubs are going to be for the foreseeable future?

[Yeti]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

[Bort]

Is this the thread where we speculate about how absolutely fucking terrible the Cubs are going to be for the foreseeable future?

I believe that's pretty the whole messageboard.

[Gilgamesh]

Is this the thread where we speculate about how absolutely fucking terrible the Cubs are going to be for the foreseeable future?

I believe that's pretty the whole messageboard.

Go Twins??!?!?!?

[Saul Goodman]

So his prospect rating is still pretty high eh? Either way it doesn't sound like he's a 2011 arrival.

Nope, 2012 at the earliest. More likely in 2013.

Vitters, Castro, Lee and Soriano L-to-R in 2012.

And Murton-Jackson-Colvin in the OF.  It's gonna be awesome.

And a rotation of Simpson-Cashner-Wells-Samardzija-Jackson.

Castillo behind the plate

Prior closing out of the pen.

With Sandberg in the dugout and Maddux running the front office.

This all sounds good for about 73 or maybe even 74 wins.

Top 15 pick!

RYNO's Opening Day Line-Up:
Jackson cf
Castro ss
Ramirez 1b
Colvin rf
Vitters 3b
Murton lf
Castillo c
Lee 2b
Simpson p

Announcers:
Kurt Evans, Al Yellon - TV

Brian Crosier solo on radio.

Scouting Department: Jim Tocco, Bonk, and Yeti.

[Yeti]

So his prospect rating is still pretty high eh? Either way it doesn't sound like he's a 2011 arrival.

Nope, 2012 at the earliest. More likely in 2013.

Vitters, Castro, Lee and Soriano L-to-R in 2012.

And Murton-Jackson-Colvin in the OF.  It's gonna be awesome.

And a rotation of Simpson-Cashner-Wells-Samardzija-Jackson.

Castillo behind the plate

Prior closing out of the pen.

With Sandberg in the dugout and Maddux running the front office.

This all sounds good for about 73 or maybe even 74 wins.

Top 15 pick!

RYNO's Opening Day Line-Up:
Jackson cf
Castro ss
Ramirez 1b
Colvin rf
Vitters 3b
Murton lf
Castillo c
Lee 2b
Simpson p

Announcers:
Kurt Evans, Al Yellon - TV

Brian Crosier solo on radio.

Scouting Department: Jim Tocco, Bonk, and Yeti.

How many guns with how many bullets?

[Bonk]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

Dunn didn't play in 1990.

I never said it negatively affects his value, but the guy played in a shit lineup for years in Cincinnati, and pitchers were more than happy to walk him to face Rich Aurilia or Austin Kearns or whatever shitbum was behind him in the lineup.

He gets paid to drive in runs, and he's good at it but not great enough to justify another huge salary on this team.

I like how he went something like 900 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly.

[Yeti]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

Dunn didn't play in 1990.

I never said it negatively affects his value, but the guy played in a shit lineup for years in Cincinnati, and pitchers were more than happy to walk him to face Rich Aurilia or Austin Kearns or whatever shitbum was behind him in the lineup.

He gets paid to drive in runs, and he's good at it but not great enough to justify another huge salary on this team.

I like how he went something like 900 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly.

Selfish? Chuck, is that you?

[Internet Apex]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

Dunn didn't play in 1990.

I never said it negatively affects his value, but the guy played in a shit lineup for years in Cincinnati, and pitchers were more than happy to walk him to face Rich Aurilia or Austin Kearns or whatever shitbum was behind him in the lineup.

He gets paid to drive in runs, and he's good at it but not great enough to justify another huge salary on this team.

I like how he went something like 900 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly.

Selfish? Chuck, is that you?

It is actually proof that his lack of contact negatively affects the team. It's also a rebuke of the odd statement by some that K is no worse than any other out. Just how much does it matter when you consider the fact that he is powerful enough to hit home runs on days when the wind is blowing in, I don't know exactly. Nor do I give a shit.

[Gilgamesh]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

Dunn didn't play in 1990.

I never said it negatively affects his value, but the guy played in a shit lineup for years in Cincinnati, and pitchers were more than happy to walk him to face Rich Aurilia or Austin Kearns or whatever shitbum was behind him in the lineup.

He gets paid to drive in runs, and he's good at it but not great enough to justify another huge salary on this team.

I like how he went something like 900 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly.

Selfish? Chuck, is that you?

It is actually proof that his lack of contact negatively affects the team. It's also a rebuke of the odd statement by some that K is no worse than any other out. Just how much does it matter when you consider the fact that he is powerful enough to hit home runs on days when the wind is blowing in, I don't know exactly. Nor do I give a shit.

Neither do I.  Why would Dunn join this group of gutless slapdicks?

[Internet Apex]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

Dunn didn't play in 1990.

I never said it negatively affects his value, but the guy played in a shit lineup for years in Cincinnati, and pitchers were more than happy to walk him to face Rich Aurilia or Austin Kearns or whatever shitbum was behind him in the lineup.

He gets paid to drive in runs, and he's good at it but not great enough to justify another huge salary on this team.

I like how he went something like 900 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly.

Selfish? Chuck, is that you?

It is actually proof that his lack of contact negatively affects the team. It's also a rebuke of the odd statement by some that K is no worse than any other out. Just how much does it matter when you consider the fact that he is powerful enough to hit home runs on days when the wind is blowing in, I don't know exactly. Nor do I give a shit.

Neither do I.  Why would Dunn join this group of gutless slapdicks?

For the money and for the glory. Mostly for the money.

[Yeti]

When pitchers have to bear down and get him out to get out of a jam, they can usually do it.

Do you have any evidence at all that proves this?

Well, I watched him play for the Reds just about every night while he was here in Cinci, and also how about a shitty career batting average with RISP?

Surely, if you're trying to establish how often he gets out when the pitcher is in a jam, you should be looking at OBP with RISP?  Even if you maintain (and I expect you do) that you should be swinging, not walking in those circumstances, then the more interesting number would be SLG with RISP.  Batting average with RISP is only as helpful as batting average in any other circumstances : not very.

His career OBP with RISP is .413, by the way, and his SLG is .482 for an OPS with RISP of .895.

I still wouldn't sign him, but for the reasons that JD has given, and not because you've seen him a couple of times in Cincy and have a hunch that he's not very good.

So, in conclusion :  your Mum.

EDIT : I hadn't seen Yeti's previous post when I wrote this.  I don't know what's more embarrassing - that I've repeated what he said, or that I actually appear to agree with him.  Maybe it's that Bonk is still flogging this dead horse.  Yes, that's it.

If you mean by watching him a couple of times that I saw him play 600 or 700 games, then yes, that's what a couple means. The main difference between OBP and AVG is walks, which I agree is helpful in determining overall player impact, but how much does it help to determine how often a guy is pitched around with a runner on second, a runner on third or runners on second and third?

Wait a minute here. If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you're asking what Dunn's impact is when pitchers are so scared of his big bat dong (and trust me, it's large. I got some Favre-style pics from him. Crocs and all.) that they elect to pitch around him because he hits the holy fuck out of the ball? And then somehow that negatively affects Dunn's value? Methinks that speaks to his value, but I may be mistaken.

You're right. Scouts should just read stats books instead of going to games. You would've been Marge Schott's best friend.

I'm not going to get in a knockdown dragout with you over stats v. visual scouting, but they are very useful. You should use them sometimes, and not just the ones that are on the back of the 1990 Fleer cards you have. Hint: Batting average kind of sucks as a stat. Oh yea, also, I figured I'd look at Dunn's "Clutch" stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lever
High Leverage: .922 OPS.

Dunn didn't play in 1990.

I never said it negatively affects his value, but the guy played in a shit lineup for years in Cincinnati, and pitchers were more than happy to walk him to face Rich Aurilia or Austin Kearns or whatever shitbum was behind him in the lineup.

He gets paid to drive in runs, and he's good at it but not great enough to justify another huge salary on this team.

I like how he went something like 900 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly.

Selfish? Chuck, is that you?

Actually, I would like to address this. Why? Well, I do like being an incessant prick who argues things with people who I perceive as dumber than myself. Where did you get that number? Is that some streak he had that Cincinnati reported on? And was this "900 Plate Appearances with a runner on third and less than 2 outs"? Because that's about the only time you can get a Sac Fly (minus the rare second to third ones). How can you judge a guy on a situational stat (much like RBIs, but that's for a different day, maybe tomorrow when you start using those to argue points) and use a span of "900 plate appearances" to indicate that HE did something wrong?

Now, I assume this stretch must have occurred in 2004 (and surrounding seasons) because he had no Sac Flies. However, he only had 44 PAs in that situation (Runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs). So, you're butthurt over that?

/reinserts Adam's huge fucking donkey dong

[Internet Apex]

How many of those 44 resulted in K's? And how many RBIs? Thanks.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Actually, I would like to address this. Why? Well, I do like being an incessant prick who argues things with people who I perceive as dumber than myself. Where did you get that number? Is that some streak he had that Cincinnati reported on? And was this "900 Plate Appearances with a runner on third and less than 2 outs"? Because that's about the only time you can get a Sac Fly (minus the rare second to third ones). How can you judge a guy on a situational stat (much like RBIs, but that's for a different day, maybe tomorrow when you start using those to argue points) and use a span of "900 plate appearances" to indicate that HE did something wrong?

Now, I assume this stretch must have occurred in 2004 (and surrounding seasons) because he had no Sac Flies. However, he only had 44 PAs in that situation (Runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs). So, you're butthurt over that?

/reinserts Adam's huge fucking donkey dong

I'm pretty sure a batter is not credited with a SAC Fly (and is charged with an AB) on any flyout wherein the runner tags from any other base other than third and advances to the next base.

And yes, Dunn had some ridonkulous streak where he hadn't had a SAC fly in ages.  Why Bonk thinks that this sort of statistical aberration fairly signifies a blight on Dunn's career is beyond me, but here we are.