The Atheist Communist Caliphate Made Flesh, Spread the Clusterfuck Around Thread

[Chuck to Chuck]

As to Kurt's point, I'd agree that Palin's "death panel" rant leans more toward factually incorrect fearmongering than just "incendiary" language.

So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you quit making things up?

[Canadouche]

As to Kurt's point, I'd agree that Palin's "death panel" rant leans more toward factually incorrect fearmongering than just "incendiary" language.

So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you quit making things up?

The other thing that's bugging me as of late is that people are citing the anti-war protests as clear evidence that it's ok for conservatives to tea-party their way through the health care debate. 

First of all, I could be wrong but didn't those same conservatives tell us we shouldn't be allowed to protest the war?  But ignoring that, I don't remember protestors coming up with lies and blatant falsehoods in order to persuade the rest of America to share their stance against the war.  Why do these nutjobs feel the need to do that now?

[RV]

As to Kurt's point, I'd agree that Palin's "death panel" rant leans more toward factually incorrect fearmongering than just "incendiary" language.

So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you quit making things up?

The other thing that's bugging me as of late is that people are citing the anti-war protests as clear evidence that it's ok for conservatives to tea-party their way through the health care debate. 

First of all, I could be wrong but didn't those same conservatives tell us we shouldn't be allowed to protest the war?  But ignoring that, I don't remember protestors coming up with lies and blatant falsehoods in order to persuade the rest of America to share their stance against the war.  Why do these nutjobs feel the need to do that now?

I don't think the argument is that the health-care protestors are peddling lies or falsehoods - I'm sure countless protestors from both sides of the spectrum are guilty of exaggerating/lying/etc.

The problem is that these protestors are being specifically guided to disrupt town-hall meetings with chants and outbursts, in order to muck up the usual question-answer process. They're not there to engage in discourse with their legislators; they are there to prevent other citizens from doing so. That's where my anger (and from what I've read in the communistosphere, others' anger) is directed.

[Brownie]

One of the bills Congress will consider is screwed! Chuck Norris, great American hero, is against it!

That said, even I find his argument less than convincing, and actually can see a good argument for "parenting classes," even run by the government.

What a discovery.  When you press "quote" that becomes legible.  Not comprehensible.  But legible.

It would have been comprehensible if I linked to the story like I was supposed to.

[CubFaninHydePark]

Health care is no different--that coercive power needs to come down on so many fronts: tort reform, limits on the amount of money that can be spent out of the collective pool on any one person, etc.  It's the only way we can reign in health care costs that have become insane and out of control.

I think it's been liberally estimated in most parts that tort reform would reign in approximately 2% of the total costs of health care.  I'll rustle up some sources for this, but I am pretty sure that the percentage is very small.

I was actually trying to make the point that "probability of contributing much to society" is a hopelessly age-neutral metric.  Tax the production of babies!

I think that there should be an open market for babies/pregnancy, regulated and taxed.  Sign me up.

Of course, as a liberal who actually believes in acting on the rhetoric of "abortion should be safe, legal and rare," I think that giving a woman a financial incentive to carry a baby for nine months and to go through childbirth is the best way to support that belief.

[MikeC]

I don't think the state has any duty to provide health care for its citizens. Just like the state has no duty to feed you, put clothes on your back or give you a house to live in.

The other problem is cost, between 1 trillion and 2 trillion dollars for the first 10 years. In the house bill i believe it will still leaves 36 million people uninsured, but 16 million more people get covered which is a good thing right? Not exactly, with that kind of dough being thrown around the government could just pay for private citizens health insurance to private insurance companies and cover roughly double to triple the amount of people depending on monthly payments. Just like food stamps or any kind of government assistance the more you make the more you pay, the less you make the more the government pays.

Trust is another problem. Obama has pretty much lost any trust he has with the failed Stimulus bill. Now he is running around saying he has never said he was for a single payer system. In fact he said that today in his little town hall. This despite, audio and video of him being for a single payer system. He isn't coming out and saying "Yeah i was for it but i changed my mind." He is just out right lieing and deny he ever said it in the belief you his sucker follows will believe another line of bullshit from him.

People are quoting sections from the house bill with specific page numbers in these town halls and Senators (who don't read bills) are mad about those questions being asked. Pimping a bill you have never read, and then getting upset that your constituents are reading it and asking you questions you can't answer is pretty pathetic. Yelling at them to go home, branding them as Un-American, or angry mobs is equally pathetic, especially when the only violence that occured is when Obama SEIU union supporters beat up a man and 6 of them were arrested.

First of all, I could be wrong but didn't those same conservatives tell us we shouldn't be allowed to protest the war?  But ignoring that, I don't remember protestors coming up with lies and blatant falsehoods in order to persuade the rest of America to share their stance against the war.  Why do these nutjobs feel the need to do that now?

So Democrats who voted to go to war but as soon as things didn't go perfectly jump ship and claim Bush lied to them wasn't a blatant falsehood to persuade the rest of America? Or how about John Murtha who still hasn't apologized to the Haditha Marines ((all exonerated) for accusing them of going on a rampage because they were stressed out with war etc. Or How about John Kerry and Obama saying all we do is air raid villages and kill women and children? Surely those comments were never meant to sway public opinion. And each and every single one was a falsehood. These are comments from Senators, i haven't even touched on the numerous falsehoods put out by all the Liberal support groups and Soros funded attack ads. The most famous 2 are "Bush planned 9/11" and one that is totally away from the Anti-War area, "Bush hates black people" after Katrina. I am guessing the Bush hates black people wasn't peddled by the main stream media to keep black voters voting Democrat huh? It fits nicely into Republicans are racists. Meanwhile 2 blocks from a screaming Mayor of New Orleans sat hundreds of school buses under water that could have been used to evacuate people and instead he attacks Bush and asks where are the Buses? Uhhhh i don't know, 2 blocks from you under water maybe?

So please don't act like you liberals always told the truth and did nothing to sway voters. That is an insult to everyones intelligence. Hell it makes you sounds like Obama saying he has never said he was for a single payer system.

[Eli]

Obama has pretty much lost any trust he has with the failed Stimulus bill. 

Failed?

[RV]

He is just out right lieing and deny he ever said it in the belief you his sucker follows will believe another line of bullshit from him.

This is my favorite failure pile in the sadness bowl that is a MikeC political post.

[ChuckD]

I don't think the state has any duty to provide health care for its citizens. Just like the state has no duty to feed you, put clothes on your back or give you a house to live in.

It has a duty to ensure an efficient market in the event of a failure. You know what? Fuck it. I'm not reading the rest of your post because you're probably already gone. Then, you wouldn't come back for a week even then, you wouldn't bother reading my response so I'd just be wasting my time. Thanks for the line breaks, though.

[BH]

Obama has pretty much lost any trust he has with the failed Stimulus bill. 

Failed?

That's Paul Fucking Krugman to you.

[MikeC]

I can't leave this out. I loved when Democrats supported the surge and voted for the new General in Iraq, Patreus to take command. And then virtually overnight before surge troops had even began arriving, and well into the phase where clear results of progress were coming out, Democrats on the left continued to label it a failure, that we need to pull out, that the war is lost.

Fuck you in your belief that liberals didn't spread falsehoods to sway public opinion. Your own fucking Senators tried to undermine the war effort with flat out lies to the American public and openly rooted for them to fail before the mission even was under way. When it finally could not be ignored and that all their hopes and dreams of a failed Iraq at Bushs feet would not be realized, a great many Democrats switched back into "yeah we supported the surge, in fact it was our idea!"

Troops don't need wishy washy support only when things go good and you abandon them when things are not so good. Republican Senators for the most part never swayed in that belief, they actually had the spine to keep working the problem to find the solution. Giving up wasn't a solution, it never was in the minds of the Reps.

On that one event alone is the massive disconnect between liberals and conservatives. Your representatives openly slandered a sitting US General, his troops, and their mission, their is no forgiveness for that.

[Chuck to Chuck]

It has a duty to ensure an efficient market in the event of a failure. You know what? Fuck it. I'm not reading the rest of your post because you're probably already gone. Then, you wouldn't come back for a week even then, you wouldn't bother reading my response so I'd just be wasting my time. Thanks for the line breaks, though.

Oh, I don't know if the state has a "duty" to ensure an efficient market.  We certainly have, as citizens, asked the state to do so.  I'm not sure the state "must" provide things like consumer protection, GAAP, the SEC, etc.

I'm very glad they do as it helps create an environment of more perfect information.  But I'm not certain it's a duty.

[MAD]

Obama has pretty much lost any trust he has with the failed Stimulus bill.  

Failed?

Oh sure.  Quote The Jew York Times and that liberal pantywaist Paul Krugman, will you?  

Nobel what?

[MAD]

Fuck you in your belief

Where's my belief?  Is it near my ass?

And I don't how Mike gets any sleep at night, what with him being inundated with all of these bogeymen that he's constantly lashing out against.

[Philberto]

Obama has pretty much lost any trust he has with the failed Stimulus bill. 

Failed?

That's an opinion article. That ain't fact, dude. Just some dude and words on a computer screen