The Atheist Communist Caliphate Made Flesh, Spread the Clusterfuck Around Thread

[Wheezer]

Kristol's interview with Jon Stewart a couple weeks ago, where he said the Gubment was incapable of providing health care, then acknowledged the health care provided to our armed services is the best anyone could have, before being reminded it's run by said Gubment, is steak.

That was one of the longest appositives I've ever read.

It is a light blue moonless summer evening, but late, perhaps ten o'clock, with Venus burning hard in daylight, so we are certainly somewhere far north, and standing on this balcony, when from beyond along the coast comes the gathering thunder of a long many-engineered freight train, thunder because though we are separated by this wide strip of water from it, the train is rolling eastward and the changing wind veers for a moment from an easterly quarter, and we face east, like Swedenborg's angels, under a sky clear save where far to the northeast over distant mountains whose purple has faded lies a mass of almost pure white clouds, suddenly, as by a light in an alabaster lamp, illumined from within by gold lightening, yet you can hear no thunder, only the roar of the great train with its engines and its wide shunting echoes as it advances from the hills into the mountains: and then all at once a fishing boat with tall gear comes running round the point like a white giraffe, very swift and stately, leaving directly behind it a long silver scalloped rim of wake, not visibly moving inshore, but now stealing ponderously beachward toward us, this scrolled silver rim of wash striking the shore first in the distance, then spreading all along the curve of the beach, while the floats, for these are timber driving floats, are swayed together, everything jostled and beautifully ruffled and stirred and tormented in this rolling sleeked silver, then little by little calm again, and you see the reflection of the remote white thunderclouds in the water, and now the lightening within the white clouds in deep water, as the fishing boat itself with a golden scroll of travelling light in its silver wake beside it reflected from the cabin vanishes round the headland, silence, and then again, within the white white distant alabaster thunderclouds beyond the mountains, the thunderless gold lightening in the blue evening, unearthly.

[Gil Gunderson]

So, let me get this straight, the government provides direct health care to Injuns and Veterans, insurance to children, poor people, the elderly, and federal employees, but NOTHING to everyone else?

That is one of the simplest measures of how fucked up health care is in the United States.

[Quality Start Machine]

So, let me get this straight, the government provides direct health care to Injuns and Veterans, insurance to children, poor people, the elderly, and federal employees, but NOTHING to everyone else?

That is one of the simplest measures of how fucked up health care is in the United States.

Let's go downtown and protest.

While we're there, we can all get gubment jobs.

[Ghost of Dave Rosello]

So, let me get this straight, the government provides direct health care to Injuns and Veterans, insurance to children, poor people, the elderly, and federal employees, but NOTHING to everyone else?

That is one of the simplest measures of how fucked up health care is in the United States.

Well hell, everybody's covered then. Problem solved!

[MikeC]

A couple things, Mike.

First of all:

Walter Reed is an army hospital, not a veteran's hospital. The two systems have nothing to do with one another. That's why the problems at Walter Reed led to the resignation of the Secretary of the Army and not the Secretary of Veterans Affairs.

Second, there are anecdotal instances of bad care in any system. It's a lot more useful to look at the system as a whole.

Yet here's a curious fact that few conservatives or liberals know. Who do you think receives higher-quality health care. Medicare patients who are free to pick their own doctors and specialists? Or aging veterans stuck in those presumably filthy VA hospitals with their antiquated equipment, uncaring administrators, and incompetent staff? An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare. On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be "significantly better."

Here's another curious fact. The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients. In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care.

It gets stranger. Pushed by large employers who are eager to know what they are buying when they purchase health care for their employees, an outfit called the National Committee for Quality Assurance today ranks health-care plans on 17 different performance measures. These include how well the plans manage high blood pressure or how precisely they adhere to standard protocols of evidence-based medicine such as prescribing beta blockers for patients recovering from a heart attack. Winning NCQA's seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year's winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope. In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals.

Veterans groups tenaciously defend the VHA and applaud its turnaround. "The quality of care is outstanding," says Peter Gayton, deputy director for veterans affairs and rehabilitation at the American Legion. In the latest independent survey, 81 percent of VHA hospital patients express satisfaction with the care they receive, compared to 77 percent of Medicare and Medicaid patients.

I don't know anything about the Indian Tribal Health system, but on the whole, I don't see how the private healthcare market is markedly better or more efficient than the VA system.

Well the VA has been involved in a scandal about falsify data to make themselves look better than they really are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/with-a-new-va-scandal-we-_b_48818.html

Independent reports also give the VA high marks. Studies by the Joint Commission and these authors have a great deal of credence, given the impartiality and impeccable reputation of their authors. It should be remembered, however, that this kind of research depends on the accuracy of data submitted by the participating organizations themselves. Since there are now suggestions that the VA falsified other data, a research committee should also re-evaluate the accuracy of the raw data used to draw these conclusions.

Where does the truth rest? The only real accountability in the VA system is the VA itself.

[R-V]

Where does the truth rest? The only real accountability in the VA system is the VA itself.

How would that explain this?

In the latest independent survey, 81 percent of VHA hospital patients express satisfaction with the care they receive, compared to 77 percent of Medicare and Medicaid patients.

[Quality Start Machine]

Where does the truth rest? The only real accountability in the VA system is the VA itself.

How would that explain this?

In the latest independent survey, 81 percent of VHA hospital patients express satisfaction with the care they receive, compared to 77 percent of Medicare and Medicaid patients.

Sure, but what happens when the Gubment takes those programs over?

[R-V]

Shocking.

Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was "blindsided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.

I'm not discounting the 'sell books with provocative stuff' angle here, but if the last part is true, wow. And Ridge is a shmuck for keeping that to himself until now.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Shocking.

Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was "blindsided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.

I'm not discounting the 'sell books with provocative stuff' angle here, but if the last part is true, wow. And Ridge is a shmuck for keeping that to himself until now.

Not worth it enough to actually do it.  So much for character vs. power.

[Quality Start Machine]

Shocking.

Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was "blindsided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.

I'm not discounting the 'sell books with provocative stuff' angle here, but if the last part is true, wow. And Ridge is a shmuck for keeping that to himself until now.

He held ambiguous pressers at least twice in 2004, once the day after Kerry announced Edwards was his running mate, and once the day after Kerry's acceptance speech.

He then denied these were politically motivated.

Fuck him with a Mongol's spiked club.

[ChuckD]

Shocking.

Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was "blindsided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.

I'm not discounting the 'sell books with provocative stuff' angle here, but if the last part is true, wow. And Ridge is a shmuck for keeping that to himself until now.

I've always been a little bit fuzzy on the definition of "irony." Ridge's new book includes a provocative claim that criticizes the Bush administration's use of the terror alert for political gains. Said book is to be released on September 1st giving Ridge a solid week and a half to grab some free airtime as a guest on cable news show stories about the upcoming anniversary of September 11th. All the while, ostensibly, he would be promoting his newly-released memoir.

Manipulating the public's fear of future terrorist attacks for political gain? Unacceptable.

Capitalizing on his former position as the Director of Homeland Security to discuss a past terrorist attack for personal gain? Acceptable.

I don't know if that's irony, but either way: Fuck Tom Ridge.

[MikeC]

Have some of you noticed that the Government is taking its sweet ass time reimbursing autodealers for the CARS program?

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/business/business_krqe_albuquerque_dealers_stiffed_as_clunkers_pile_up_200908200033

Dealers across the state are owed more than $3.6 million, according to a dealers' group which says that so far Uncle Sam has only written three checks totaling about $14,000.

Alot of dealerships may even go out of business because of this. And Health Care is going to be run by the Government? They can't even manage a simple 1 or 2 billion dollar program. And word is the program is out of money again.

[Chuck to Chuck]

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/business/business_krqe_albuquerque_dealers_stiffed_as_clunkers_pile_up_200908200033

Really bad reporting.  Case in point:

Dealerships put up the cash for the rebates after being told by the Obama administration they would be paid back within 10 days of the sale.

So, how many days are payments taking to be made?  Article is silent.

Then...

"You simply can't ask businesses to front $200,000, $300,000 for any period of time," Rep. Martin Heinrich, D-N.M., told KRQE News 13.

Wow.  So, my job of providing lines of credit for companies who have sold inventory but are pending collection of accounts receivable doesn't exist?  Unless by "any period of time" he means "up to 90 days from invoice date."

A dumb article that is meaningless.

[R-V]

Have some of you noticed that the Government is taking its sweet ass time reimbursing autodealers for the CARS program?

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/business/business_krqe_albuquerque_dealers_stiffed_as_clunkers_pile_up_200908200033

Dealers across the state are owed more than $3.6 million, according to a dealers' group which says that so far Uncle Sam has only written three checks totaling about $14,000.

Alot of dealerships may even go out of business because of this. And Health Care is going to be run by the Government? They can't even manage a simple 1 or 2 billion dollar program. And word is the program is out of money again.

So now that one of your talking points has been shot down, you just move on to the next one instead of attempting to respond?

[MikeC]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/20/pho.doctor.shortage/index.html

Today, 97 percent of Massachusetts residents have health insurance, the highest in the country. But less publicized are the unintended consequences that the influx of half a million newly insured patients has had on an unprepared primary care system.

The Massachusetts Medical Society reported that the average wait time for a

new patient looking for a primary care doctor ranged from 36 to 50 days

, with almost half of internal medicine physicians closing their doors entirely to new patients. And when you consider that Massachusetts already has the highest concentration of doctors nationwide, wait times will likely be worse in other, less physician-abundant parts of the country, should universal coverage be enacted federally.

When patients are forced to wait weeks to obtain medical care, they inevitably find their way into the emergency department for treatment that ordinarily can be handled in a doctor's office. Indeed, since health reform was passed, according to state data provided to the Boston Globe, Massachusetts emergency rooms have reported a 7 percent increase in volume, which markedly inflates costs when you consider that emergency room treatment can be up to 10 times more expensive than an office visit for the same ailment.

Alwyn Cassil, a spokeswoman for the nonpartisan Center for Studying Health System Change, told HealthDay News that expanding coverage without improving access to care is a "recipe for failure," as well as unsustainable, "because it will just bankrupt us."

Massachusetts is finding out just how difficult it is to fiscally maintain universal coverage. In part due to soaring health costs, the state Legislature has proposed reducing health benefits for 30,000 legal immigrants and cutting funding to inner-city hospitals like Boston Medical Center, which, according to the Boston Globe, may "force it to slash programs and jeopardize care for thousands of poverty-stricken families."

Thats the future of free health care for the entire country. Read about what is going on with the doctors in that state. Not exactly an improvement from our current situation, unless you like our nation bankrupt by the costs, and having to reduce services to just keep it running. Oh wait were already 1.8 trillion in the hole this year under Obama, were already fucked, whats another 1 or 2 trillion. I guess when the nation is already bankrupt its a good time to spend even more money.