The Atheist Communist Caliphate Made Flesh, Spread the Clusterfuck Around Thread

[morpheus]

DPD to add: oops.

Cheney could lodge a Freedom of Information Request (which is hard to imagine a former Veep doing); he could contact CIA officials; or he could submit the request via the White House. Cheney said he'd made the request to the CIA.

The source, however, tells me that the CIA didn't get any such request from Cheney. So barring the unlikely possibility that Cheney submitted his request to the Obama White House, it seems fair to assume for now that the only target of this request was the Fox News television audience.

Deep Goat knows all.

[Quality Start Machine]

Cheney is actually a pretty cool study, in that he's currently showing a higher profile than he did while in his country's service.

He certainly seems worried that some shit is going to bubble to the surface, now that he's no longer in control of the flow of information.

I'm guessing anything regarding torture isn't what he's worried about.

[morpheus]

Seems to me he's worried about some shit floating to the surface but not other shit.

[Quality Start Machine]

Seems to me he's worried about some shit floating to the surface but not other shit.

Yeah, the torture shit is bad, but everyone essentially knew about it anyway.

Either his energy summit or contract steering seem like the sort of thing that would worry him.

[RV]

DPD to add: oops.

Cheney could lodge a Freedom of Information Request (which is hard to imagine a former Veep doing); he could contact CIA officials; or he could submit the request via the White House. Cheney said he'd made the request to the CIA.

The source, however, tells me that the CIA didn't get any such request from Cheney. So barring the unlikely possibility that Cheney submitted his request to the Obama White House, it seems fair to assume for now that the only target of this request was the Fox News television audience.

Deep Goat knows all.

Looks like Deep Goat and I got FACED by Cheney.

That whole question of whether Dick Cheney asked the CIA to declassify and release intelligence supposedly proving that the torture worked? Turns out Cheney made the request through the National Archives, a spokesperson for the archives confirms.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/happy-hour-open-thread-cheney-mystery-solved/

[Tank]

DPD to add: oops.

Cheney could lodge a Freedom of Information Request (which is hard to imagine a former Veep doing); he could contact CIA officials; or he could submit the request via the White House. Cheney said he'd made the request to the CIA.

The source, however, tells me that the CIA didn't get any such request from Cheney. So barring the unlikely possibility that Cheney submitted his request to the Obama White House, it seems fair to assume for now that the only target of this request was the Fox News television audience.

Deep Goat knows all.

Looks like Deep Goat and I got FACED by Cheney.

That whole question of whether Dick Cheney asked the CIA to declassify and release intelligence supposedly proving that the torture worked? Turns out Cheney made the request through the National Archives, a spokesperson for the archives confirms.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/happy-hour-open-thread-cheney-mystery-solved/

I've long found Greg Sargent kind of generally douchey.

[Quality Start Machine]

DPD to add: oops.

Cheney could lodge a Freedom of Information Request (which is hard to imagine a former Veep doing); he could contact CIA officials; or he could submit the request via the White House. Cheney said he'd made the request to the CIA.

The source, however, tells me that the CIA didn't get any such request from Cheney. So barring the unlikely possibility that Cheney submitted his request to the Obama White House, it seems fair to assume for now that the only target of this request was the Fox News television audience.

Deep Goat knows all.

Looks like Deep Goat and I got FACED by Cheney.

That whole question of whether Dick Cheney asked the CIA to declassify and release intelligence supposedly proving that the torture worked? Turns out Cheney made the request through the National Archives, a spokesperson for the archives confirms.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/happy-hour-open-thread-cheney-mystery-solved/

So Cheney filed a request with the CIA, except he didn't. Sounds credible to me.

Wonder if anyone files a FOIA request with both agencies to see if the documents are different.

[morpheus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html

Admiral Blair's assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

[RV]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html

Admiral Blair's assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

From Blair's memo:

"The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means," Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. "The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

[Quality Start Machine]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html

Admiral Blair's assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Morph, you should know better than to resort to the NY Times.

[RV]

Far be it from me to question the assertions of the Bush DOJ, but if Zubaida's statement that Padilla intended to detonate a dirty bomb was confirmed by "multiple independent and corroborating sources" as Ashcroft claimed, why was the dirty bomb plot never mentioned in the government's charges against Padilla? And the fact that Zubaida wasn't used as a witness in the trial against Padilla doesn't exactly speak to his reliability.

Ah.  Padilla's just a regular Joe.  I get it now.

Maybe an answer of the question would be a better response.

Sure, Chuck.  My response is that stopping something from happening and being able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law are two different things.

My next questions would be: Our justice system that has worked pretty well for a few hundred years all of a sudden shouldn't apply to specific situations or people? And shouldn't the burden of proof be on the plaintiff (Cheney and Comey in this case) to prove these "specific attacks" rather than taking their word for it?

The burden of proof in a court is on the plaintiff.  I agree with that.  However, I thought my last statement, that I wasn't talking about trials, was pretty clear.

Look, until we can see the classified stuff that Cheney alluded to, we can go around and around on this forever.  I'd really rather not.

I'll just take Cheney's word. He's good for it.

I'd also submit this report that Zubaida provided Jose Padilla's name before the 'enhanced interrogations' took place - not because of them.

There is little dispute, according to officials from both agencies, that Abu Zubaida provided some valuable intelligence before CIA interrogators began to rough him up, including information that helped identify Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, and al-Qaeda operative Jose Padilla. Footnotes in the 9/11 Commission report attribute information about a variety of al-Qaeda personnel and activities to interrogations of Abu Zubaida beginning in April 2002 and lasting through February 2004.

Vindication, TORTUREFAGGOTS.

It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence.

We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber. This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives.

Defenders of these techniques have claimed that they got Abu Zubaydah to give up information leading to the capture of Ramzi bin al-Shibh, a top aide to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and Mr. Padilla. This is false. The information that led to Mr. Shibh's capture came primarily from a different terrorist operative who was interviewed using traditional methods. As for Mr. Padilla, the dates just don't add up: the harsh techniques were approved in the memo of August 2002, Mr. Padilla had been arrested that May.

One of the worst consequences of the use of these harsh techniques was that it reintroduced the so-called Chinese wall between the C.I.A. and F.B.I., similar to the communications obstacles that prevented us from working together to stop the 9/11 attacks. Because the bureau would not employ these problematic techniques, our agents who knew the most about the terrorists could have no part in the investigation.

[CT III]

I can't remember where we were discussing the downfall of the entire global economy, but this would seem to be pretty significant.

http://www.businessinsider.com/andrew-cuomo-send-angry-letter-to-tarp-regulators-2009-4

[Quality Start Machine]

I can't remember where we were discussing the downfall of the entire global economy, but this would seem to be pretty significant.

http://www.businessinsider.com/andrew-cuomo-send-angry-letter-to-tarp-regulators-2009-4

Cuomo needs to build up some heavy artillery if he wants to beat black AND blind.

[RV]

This article about Ali Soufan (the author of the NY Times piece I linked above), his investigations of the US Cole bombing, the dysfunction of the CIA & FBI leading up to 9/11, and his successes with interrogations, is fascinating and really depressing.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/10/060710fa_fact_wright?currentPage=all

In fact, the C.I.A. knew a lot about Khallad and his ties to Al Qaeda. The F.B.I. and the C.I.A. have long quarrelled over bureaucratic turf, and their mandates place them at odds. The ultimate goal of the bureau in gathering intelligence is to gain convictions for crimes; for the agency, intelligence itself is the object. If the agency had responded candidly to Soufan's requests, it would have revealed its knowledge of an Al Qaeda cell that was already forming inside the United States. But the agency kept this intelligence to itself.

The morning of September 12th, the C.I.A.'s chief of station in Aden went with the agents to the airport in Sanaa. The C.I.A. official was sitting in the lounge with Soufan when he got a call on his cell phone from F.B.I. headquarters.

When Soufan realized that the C.I.A. had known for more than a year and a half that two of the hijackers were in the country he ran into the bathroom and threw up.

[Quality Start Machine]

GM kills the Indian