The Atheist Communist Caliphate Made Flesh, Spread the Clusterfuck Around Thread

[CubFaninHydePark]

I didn't want to figure out how to break down quoting stuff in R-V's post...

But I think that as a matter of constitutional law, if you look at commerce clause cases, all of the regulations that the court has upheld have been about "positive" individual conduct--individuals have to do something.  But there are limits to the commerce clause, and Chemerinsky just ignores those.  I think that the individual mandate explodes the enumerated powers clause.  It's totally different than the race cases--those say that if you want to participate in the market, you have to do so in a way that treats everyone equally, because that has a substantial effect on interstate commerce.  That's fine.

But the individual mandate says "if you want to be alive and over 18, the mere fact of your existence has a substantial effect on interstate commerce."  At the point where Congress can reduce any exercise of power to mere existence, there are no enumerated powers.  Congress can do whatever it wants.

Even his taxation argument is flawed because he ignores the universality clause.  A selective tax on those who purchase health insurance would fail for the same reasons a selective tax on corporate bonuses would fail.

He also ignores that the court leans right, right now, and if Obama loses in 2012, it's going to lean even further right.  Even if Obama wins in 2012, absent some very unlikely circumstances, we aren't going to see a consequential president for court makeup until after the 2016 elections.  I'm generally for a strong Congress, but at the point where Congress can equate living with commerce clause implications, I have serious reservations.  From a matter of pure logic, we can't both be a society with a federal government of enumerated powers and a society with an individual mandate.

And even relatively liberal me think it's still more important to be a society of enumerated powers.

As for the generational stuff--I don't expect there to be any left for me when I'm old.  Which is why I think the battles need to be fought now.  I don't care if there's any left for me when I'm old.

What I'm more concerned about is that a self-entitled baby-boomer generation (the worst generation in American history) is going to destroy this economy and country with their selfishness.  Europe is only postponing the inevitable because we subsidize their defense spending.  The modern European welfare state would not and could not exist if European nations actually had to maintain armies and navies with any sort of real military capability.

At some point, the US is going to have to choose between maintaining its military or funding our insane health-care and retirement entitlements.  If we choose the latter over the former--and given how old people vote, there's a good chance we will--we will end up undermining our ability to project force, which is crucial for our economy...and we'll still ultimately lose the race between economic growth and the welfare state, further weakening our economy and making our obligations even more untenable.

I'm all about the cost-control measures of the bill, because I think they're necessary for the long run.  But the reality that we need to confront is that it's both fair and better for us in the long run if individuals who need top-end care give that up (or have it far more heavily rationed) in exchange for lowering costs and providing basic care to those who don't have it.

That's what needs to happen.  But there's no way the self-entitled, politically feckless and worthless, baby-boomer generation will ever accept that.  So hence, my desire to not ever be forced to subsidize the abysmal political and economic decisions of a generation that only made bad ones.

There will be a giant generational battle in my lifetime.  It's not going to be pretty, but the older crowd has no moral high ground to claim when it happens.

[R-V]

There will be a giant generational battle in my lifetime.  It's not going to be pretty, but the older crowd has no moral high ground to claim when it happens.

Viva la revolución! I recommend you contact Paul to help you subvert the Old People Regime.

[Gil Gunderson]

I didn't want to figure out how to break down quoting stuff in R-V's post...

But I think that as a matter of constitutional law, if you look at commerce clause cases, all of the regulations that the court has upheld have been about "positive" individual conduct--individuals have to do something.  But there are limits to the commerce clause, and Chemerinsky just ignores those.  I think that the individual mandate explodes the enumerated powers clause.  It's totally different than the race cases--those say that if you want to participate in the market, you have to do so in a way that treats everyone equally, because that has a substantial effect on interstate commerce.  That's fine.

But the individual mandate says "if you want to be alive and over 18, the mere fact of your existence has a substantial effect on interstate commerce."  At the point where Congress can reduce any exercise of power to mere existence, there are no enumerated powers.  Congress can do whatever it wants.

Even his taxation argument is flawed because he ignores the universality clause.  A selective tax on those who purchase health insurance would fail for the same reasons a selective tax on corporate bonuses would fail.

He also ignores that the court leans right, right now, and if Obama loses in 2012, it's going to lean even further right.  Even if Obama wins in 2012, absent some very unlikely circumstances, we aren't going to see a consequential president for court makeup until after the 2016 elections.  I'm generally for a strong Congress, but at the point where Congress can equate living with commerce clause implications, I have serious reservations.  From a matter of pure logic, we can't both be a society with a federal government of enumerated powers and a society with an individual mandate.

And even relatively liberal me think it's still more important to be a society of enumerated powers.

As for the generational stuff--I don't expect there to be any left for me when I'm old.  Which is why I think the battles need to be fought now.  I don't care if there's any left for me when I'm old.

What I'm more concerned about is that a self-entitled baby-boomer generation (the worst generation in American history) is going to destroy this economy and country with their selfishness.  Europe is only postponing the inevitable because we subsidize their defense spending.  The modern European welfare state would not and could not exist if European nations actually had to maintain armies and navies with any sort of real military capability.

At some point, the US is going to have to choose between maintaining its military or funding our insane health-care and retirement entitlements.  If we choose the latter over the former--and given how old people vote, there's a good chance we will--we will end up undermining our ability to project force, which is crucial for our economy...and we'll still ultimately lose the race between economic growth and the welfare state, further weakening our economy and making our obligations even more untenable.

I'm all about the cost-control measures of the bill, because I think they're necessary for the long run.  But the reality that we need to confront is that it's both fair and better for us in the long run if individuals who need top-end care give that up (or have it far more heavily rationed) in exchange for lowering costs and providing basic care to those who don't have it.

That's what needs to happen.  But there's no way the self-entitled, politically feckless and worthless, baby-boomer generation will ever accept that.  So hence, my desire to not ever be forced to subsidize the abysmal political and economic decisions of a generation that only made bad ones.

There will be a giant generational battle in my lifetime.  It's not going to be pretty, but the older crowd has no moral high ground to claim when it happens.

You want to know a couple of the things I learned in law school?  One, throw enough shit on the wall and something will stick.  Two, write way too much in response to your audience, and you'll eventually win because they don't want to respond to all of your bullshit.

Case in point.

You know what's worse than MikeC?  A putatively educated MikeC. 

You're better than that...marginally.

[Oleg]

I would have just drank through law school.

[Gil Gunderson]

I would have just drank through law school.

That too.

[Eli]

I didn't want ...

As far as I got.

[CubFaninHydePark]

I would have just drank through law school.

Not saying I didn't...

[Quality Start Machine]

I would have just drank through law school.

You wouldn't be the first...have you seen how many lawyers are around here?

[R-V]

This is most likely a goof and not a real teabagger, but hilarious either way.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=31642

[Slaky]

The Republican revolution is here!

http://chicagoist.com/2009/12/28/gop_senate_race_gets_nasty.php

This strategy can't possibly fail.

[Quality Start Machine]

The Republican revolution is here!

http://chicagoist.com/2009/12/28/gop_senate_race_gets_nasty.php

This strategy can't possibly fail.

Hey, this guy lines up the heavyweights on the relevant issues

[Brownie]

The Republican revolution is here!

http://chicagoist.com/2009/12/28/gop_senate_race_gets_nasty.php

This strategy can't possibly fail.

Hey, this guy lines up the heavyweights on the relevant issues

Andy Martin is insane. This is all.

[Waco Kid]

The Republican revolution is here!

http://chicagoist.com/2009/12/28/gop_senate_race_gets_nasty.php

This strategy can't possibly fail.

Hey, this guy lines up the heavyweights on the relevant issues

The Obama presidency is a vast conspiracy put into motion and continued by the Republican Party homosexual club.

[CBStew]

The Birthers are barking up the wrong tree.  They place their emphasis upon where Obama was born.  They should be focusing upon whether he was born.  How do we know that he is not a hologram?  The Democrats have never formally denied that Obama is not a hologram.  The American people deserve to know whether their President exists or not.

[CT III]

The Republican revolution is here!

http://chicagoist.com/2009/12/28/gop_senate_race_gets_nasty.php

This strategy can't possibly fail.

Hey, this guy lines up the heavyweights on the relevant issues

Andy Martin is insane. This is all.

HUTCHINS/MARTIN IN 2012!