Who's a Hall of Famer?

[J. Walter Weatherman]

Bump. This is pretty awesome.

This comment is great.

"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "

Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.

Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.

While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.

You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.

A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.

That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.

What?  Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?

The pipsqueak circa 1987...



His teammates at Auburn probably called him "Slim".

[Slaky]

Bump. This is pretty awesome.

This comment is great.

"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "

Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.

Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.

While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.

You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.

A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.

That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.

What?  Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?

The pipsqueak circa 1987...



His teammates at Auburn probably called him "Slim".

His dick at birth was bigger than Gary Coleman's entire adult body

[Internet Apex]

Bump. This is pretty awesome.

This comment is great.

"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "

Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.

Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.

While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.

You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.

A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.

That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.

What?  Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?

The pipsqueak circa 1987...



His teammates at Auburn probably called him "Slim".

His dick at birth was bigger than Gary Coleman's entire adult body

After all those years of juicin' though, Emmanual Lewis would OWN "Big" Frank in a sword fight.

[Slaky]

Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.

Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.

[Internet Apex]

Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.

Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.

Self-righteousness is a helluva drug.

[Quality Start Machine]

Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.

Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.

Don't give Joe Torre a free ride on this bus.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.

Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.

Don't give Joe Torre a free ride on this bus.

You keep saying that and other than "Joe Torre won the most titles during the "Steroid Era"  I'm wondering what the hell you're referring to.

Pettite and Clemens, yes, but Jeter, Bernie Williams and the Fruit Bat?  On the teams from '96-'00 when they won 4 WS in 5 years (and Clemens was only o the last 2 of those), who are we talking about?  They had bench guys like Strawberry and Fielder in '96, who I'm pretty sure were just ingesting blow and cheeseburgers, respectively...Paul O'Neill?  Shane Spencer?  Who?

[Tonker]

Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.

Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.

Don't give Joe Torre a free ride on this bus.

You keep saying that and other than "Joe Torre won the most titles during the "Steroid Era"  I'm wondering what the hell you're referring to.

Pettite and Clemens, yes, but Jeter, Bernie Williams and the Fruit Bat?  On the teams from '96-'00 when they won 4 WS in 5 years (and Clemens was only o the last 2 of those), who are we talking about?  They had bench guys like Strawberry and Fielder in '96, who I'm pretty sure were just ingesting blow and cheeseburgers, respectively...Paul O'Neill?  Shane Spencer?  Who?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Tino Martinez was juicing at the end of the nineties, there, but by and large, I agree - the Torre Yanks were hardly the fucking Bash Brothers.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

[Slaky]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.

These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.

Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.

[Internet Apex]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.

These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.

Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.

And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.

[BH]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.

These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.

Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.

And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.

Every team had guys on the stuff during this time, so it's not like these managers had some sort of advantage. They just had better players on PEDs. The whole morality, sanctity of the game crap is ridiculous. You could argue that greenies helped players more, and everyone took those for decades. Who cares.

[Internet Apex]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.

These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.

Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.

And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.

Every team had has guys on the stuff during this time, so it's not like these managers had some sort of advantage. They just had better players on PEDs. The whole morality, sanctity of the game crap is ridiculous. You could argue that greenies helped players more, and everyone took those for decades. Who cares.

The game has no sanctity. People who try to project that on it are really sad in the way that they delude themselves and try to impose their beliefs on others. Players took what was available to them before steroids were available. Greenies were a fine example. They kept non-whites out of the game until Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby so take that sanctity, shove it in your pie hole and choke on it.  

[Gilgamesh]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.

These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.

Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.

And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.

Every team had has guys on the stuff during this time, so it's not like these managers had some sort of advantage. They just had better players on PEDs. The whole morality, sanctity of the game crap is ridiculous. You could argue that greenies helped players more, and everyone took those for decades. Who cares.

The game has no sanctity. People who try to project that on it are really sad in the way that they delude themselves and try to impose their beliefs on others. Players took what was available to them before steroids were available. Greenies were a fine example. They kept non-whites out of the game until Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby so take that sanctity, shove it in your pie hole and choke on it.  

The BBHOF also has as members some people who even by their contemporary standards were unconscionable assholes, e.g. Ty Cobb.

I used to be of the belief that the Hall of Fame should keep the PEDers out, but I'm more convinced now that they should be allowed in with the caveat that their suspected PED use be conspicuously referenced on their plaques (or at least somewhere in very close proximity to their wing of the hall)

I think to do otherwise simply enables baseball to continue to sweep the whole issue under the rug, forget its past, and pretend it's no longer an issue.  All history making people and events should have the complete stories told to the widest audience.  To not do so only perpetuates this idea that history's sole value is to glorify the past rather than address everything.

[Quality Start Machine]

Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.

don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.

These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.

Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.

I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.

Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.

Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.