Crazy Uncle Milton's Shot Blasting Sploogefest Emporium

[TDubbs]

All i keep hearing is "Milton Bradley is going to be hitting soon." What are we at the end of June and Milton's stat line sets at .243 BA, .354 OBP, .744 OPS with 5 HR, and 16 RBI, 23 Runs in 164 AB's. Hey its an improvement over .189 right?

Ryan Theriot is hitting .284 with a .339 OBP, with a .757 OPS. With 6 HR, 26 RBI, and 36 runs in 261 AB's.

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's. I am still waiting for him to pass the Juggernaut offensive force Ryan Theriot in HR's, RBI, and Runs. I think any decent offensive player worth his salt could out produce Ryan Theriot by June 23rd. Did we really pay this much money for a guy who performs worse offensively than Ryan Theriot?

While everyone is drooling over his career year in Texas most people miss that Bradley has a career .822 OPS, only once ever got to 20 HR's, and only twice in his career managed to get above 70 RBI. So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer. Milton isn't gifted with great power and he has never been a proven RBI producer. Right now he is on pace 14 HR and 44 RBI, fucking Matt Murton could do better than that. But he is gonna heat up anytime now, start clobbering HR's (which he doesn't do) and start knocking in tons of runs (which he has never done). Keep believing in Milton Bradley, all i see is a average player at best getting paid to act like a better baseball player than he really is. At least he has gone from "sucks ass" to "passable" but if your expecting more than that your gonna be disappointed.

I think the Cubs need to bust out the RBI-O-Meter for Bradley and see if he can hit 20 RBI before the All-Star break. God damn that's just pathetic thinking about it, and people still are on the Bradley band wagon?

You don't know me, and I hate you, but you're mentally retarded. 
I hate Bradley as much as the next racist guy, but seriously?  If you're this stupid in the clusterfuck thread, then maybe I could actually understand portions of it and have an excuse to read it.

[Quality Start Machine]

All i keep hearing is "Milton Bradley is going to be hitting soon." What are we at the end of June and Milton's stat line sets at .243 BA, .354 OBP, .744 OPS with 5 HR, and 16 RBI, 23 Runs in 164 AB's. Hey its an improvement over .189 right?

Ryan Theriot is hitting .284 with a .339 OBP, with a .757 OPS. With 6 HR, 26 RBI, and 36 runs in 261 AB's.

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's. I am still waiting for him to pass the Juggernaut offensive force Ryan Theriot in HR's, RBI, and Runs. I think any decent offensive player worth his salt could out produce Ryan Theriot by June 23rd. Did we really pay this much money for a guy who performs worse offensively than Ryan Theriot?

While everyone is drooling over his career year in Texas most people miss that Bradley has a career .822 OPS, only once ever got to 20 HR's, and only twice in his career managed to get above 70 RBI. So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer. Milton isn't gifted with great power and he has never been a proven RBI producer. Right now he is on pace 14 HR and 44 RBI, fucking Matt Murton could do better than that. But he is gonna heat up anytime now, start clobbering HR's (which he doesn't do) and start knocking in tons of runs (which he has never done). Keep believing in Milton Bradley, all i see is a average player at best getting paid to act like a better baseball player than he really is. At least he has gone from "sucks ass" to "passable" but if your expecting more than that your gonna be disappointed.

I think the Cubs need to bust out the RBI-O-Meter for Bradley and see if he can hit 20 RBI before the All-Star break. God damn that's just pathetic thinking about it, and people still are on the Bradley band wagon?

"We"? You speak French now?

My own issues with Bradley's brain farts notwithstanding, he has a proven record as a damn fine hitter. Save the angst for the Clusterfuck thread.

[*In a Nutsack]

Comparing Milton Bradley's stats to Ryan Theriot's anomolous HR stats is pretty outrageously dumb.

[RV]

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's.

He did? When? I don't remember him telling us that.

So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer.

A 100 OPS+ is actually the definition of league average, and probably the best overall measure of a hitter. Now, Milton has put up a 93 OPS+ so far this season. That's below league average and not good. I don't think anyone is arguing that is good.

The point is that over his last 3 seasons, Milton put up an OPS+ of 143. That's considerably better than league average. For comparison's sake, Bobby Abreu put up a 120 and Raul Ibanez put up a 123.

It's more reasonable to expect that going forward, Milton's production will be more in line with what he did the last 3 years, than what he's done in 164 ABs. And maybe he'll even hit better than that, and get back to his career average production.

As for home runs and RBIs, more home runs would definitely be a welcome sight. But using RBIs to measure a player's worth is dumb. Were you mad at Derrek Lee for only driving in 107 runs in his otherwise awesome 2005?

[Quality Start Machine]

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's.

He did? When? I don't remember him telling us that.

So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer.

A 100 OPS+ is actually the definition of league average, and probably the best overall measure of a hitter. Now, Milton has put up a 93 OPS+ so far this season. That's below league average and not good. I don't think anyone is arguing that is good.

The point is that over his last 3 seasons, Milton put up an OPS+ of 143. That's considerably better than league average. For comparison's sake, Bobby Abreu put up a 120 and Raul Ibanez put up a 123.

It's more reasonable to expect that going forward, Milton's production will be more in line with what he did the last 3 years, than what he's done in 164 ABs. And maybe he'll even hit better than that, and get back to his career average production.

As for home runs and RBIs, more home runs would definitely be a welcome sight. But using RBIs to measure a player's worth is dumb. Were you mad at Derrek Lee for only driving in 107 runs in his otherwise awesome 2005?

Mark Grace drove in 4 runs in June of 1998. Mainly because the guy in front of him in the order juiced 20 over the fence that month.

[Kermit, B.]

Thanks a lot, guys who told MikeC to stick to talking about baseball.  Thanks a fucking LOT.

[Slaky]

All i keep hearing is "Milton Bradley is going to be hitting soon." What are we at the end of June and Milton's stat line sets at .243 BA, .354 OBP, .744 OPS with 5 HR, and 16 RBI, 23 Runs in 164 AB's. Hey its an improvement over .189 right?

Ryan Theriot is hitting .284 with a .339 OBP, with a .757 OPS. With 6 HR, 26 RBI, and 36 runs in 261 AB's.

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's. I am still waiting for him to pass the Juggernaut offensive force Ryan Theriot in HR's, RBI, and Runs. I think any decent offensive player worth his salt could out produce Ryan Theriot by June 23rd. Did we really pay this much money for a guy who performs worse offensively than Ryan Theriot?

While everyone is drooling over his career year in Texas most people miss that Bradley has a career .822 OPS, only once ever got to 20 HR's, and only twice in his career managed to get above 70 RBI. So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer. Milton isn't gifted with great power and he has never been a proven RBI producer. Right now he is on pace 14 HR and 44 RBI, fucking Matt Murton could do better than that. But he is gonna heat up anytime now, start clobbering HR's (which he doesn't do) and start knocking in tons of runs (which he has never done). Keep believing in Milton Bradley, all i see is a average player at best getting paid to act like a better baseball player than he really is. At least he has gone from "sucks ass" to "passable" but if your expecting more than that your gonna be disappointed.

I think the Cubs need to bust out the RBI-O-Meter for Bradley and see if he can hit 20 RBI before the All-Star break. God damn that's just pathetic thinking about it, and people still are on the Bradley band wagon?

Stick to politics.

[morpheus]

All i keep hearing is "Milton Bradley is going to be hitting soon." What are we at the end of June and Milton's stat line sets at .243 BA, .354 OBP, .744 OPS with 5 HR, and 16 RBI, 23 Runs in 164 AB's. Hey its an improvement over .189 right?

Ryan Theriot is hitting .284 with a .339 OBP, with a .757 OPS. With 6 HR, 26 RBI, and 36 runs in 261 AB's.

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's. I am still waiting for him to pass the Juggernaut offensive force Ryan Theriot in HR's, RBI, and Runs. I think any decent offensive player worth his salt could out produce Ryan Theriot by June 23rd. Did we really pay this much money for a guy who performs worse offensively than Ryan Theriot?

While everyone is drooling over his career year in Texas most people miss that Bradley has a career .822 OPS, only once ever got to 20 HR's, and only twice in his career managed to get above 70 RBI. So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer. Milton isn't gifted with great power and he has never been a proven RBI producer. Right now he is on pace 14 HR and 44 RBI, fucking Matt Murton could do better than that. But he is gonna heat up anytime now, start clobbering HR's (which he doesn't do) and start knocking in tons of runs (which he has never done). Keep believing in Milton Bradley, all i see is a average player at best getting paid to act like a better baseball player than he really is. At least he has gone from "sucks ass" to "passable" but if your expecting more than that your gonna be disappointed.

I think the Cubs need to bust out the RBI-O-Meter for Bradley and see if he can hit 20 RBI before the All-Star break. God damn that's just pathetic thinking about it, and people still are on the Bradley band wagon?

RBI's are one of the most flawed counting stats out there.  They are extremely dependent on what people in other parts of the order do.  That's why most baseball analysts tend to ignore them in favor of OPS at a minimum.

Look, we all know that Bradley started the year in a terrible slump, OK?  Howver, he's always been a streaky hitter.  He will end up with significantly better numbers this year than he has now, in terms of rate stats.  His numbers will be better than Theriot's by year end, except maybe for runs scored, which is also a fairly meaningless statistic.  He'll end up with much better numbers than Matt Murton, and I say that as a guy who thought the Cubs mishandled Murton terribly.

This may help:  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=bradlmi01&year=2009&t=b

You may notice that his BABIP in April was .091 (!!!) Since we're relying on such a small sample size (192 PA, 164 AB), if his BABIP simply was at a league average level (.300) he'd have gotten 7 more hits, which would have raised his BA to .287, OBP to .369, and SLG to at least .433.  If his OPS were over .800, given how badly it seems he's played, would you be satisfied then?  I mean, that would be an .800 OPS before he even got hot.

EDIT: I see a few more people responded before I could finish my long-winded post.  RV made some excellent points.

[ChuckD]

Three things, MikeC.

First, what RV said. Second, what Morph said.

Third, Ryan Theriot has had about 100 more PA this year. So, using counting statistics like Runs, RBIs, and HR to draw a comparison between he and Bradley is bad form.

Fourth, what TDubbs said. I know, that's one more than I promised, but I rarely have any reason to agree with him outside of Mom's Basement.

[Oleg]

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's.

He did? When? I don't remember him telling us that.

So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer.

A 100 OPS+ is actually the definition of league average, and probably the best overall measure of a hitter. Now, Milton has put up a 93 OPS+ so far this season. That's below league average and not good. I don't think anyone is arguing that is good.

The point is that over his last 3 seasons, Milton put up an OPS+ of 143. That's considerably better than league average. For comparison's sake, Bobby Abreu put up a 120 and Raul Ibanez put up a 123.

It's more reasonable to expect that going forward, Milton's production will be more in line with what he did the last 3 years, than what he's done in 164 ABs. And maybe he'll even hit better than that, and get back to his career average production.

As for home runs and RBIs, more home runs would definitely be a welcome sight. But using RBIs to measure a player's worth is dumb. Were you mad at Derrek Lee for only driving in 107 runs in his otherwise awesome 2005?

Just for context...

OPS+ is adjusted for park factors and position.  It doesn't compare catchers to 3B.  It doesn't matter if you play your home games at Minute Maid or Citi Field.  Also, a 143 OPS+ means that the player has an OPS (remember, it's "adjusted") that 43% than average.

Another thing...OPS+ is a nice, easy stat.  It is by no means a complete stat, and one could argue that no stat by itself should be used in isolation.  Context.

[Waco Kid]

All i keep hearing is "Milton Bradley is going to be hitting soon." What are we at the end of June and Milton's stat line sets at .243 BA, .354 OBP, .744 OPS with 5 HR, and 16 RBI, 23 Runs in 164 AB's. Hey its an improvement over .189 right?

Ryan Theriot is hitting .284 with a .339 OBP, with a .757 OPS. With 6 HR, 26 RBI, and 36 runs in 261 AB's.

Bradley has told the fans that even though he might not play as many games as other players he will do just as much or more in less AB's. I am still waiting for him to pass the Juggernaut offensive force Ryan Theriot in HR's, RBI, and Runs. I think any decent offensive player worth his salt could out produce Ryan Theriot by June 23rd. Did we really pay this much money for a guy who performs worse offensively than Ryan Theriot?

While everyone is drooling over his career year in Texas most people miss that Bradley has a career .822 OPS, only once ever got to 20 HR's, and only twice in his career managed to get above 70 RBI. So basically we are going to pay 30 million for a league average RFer. Milton isn't gifted with great power and he has never been a proven RBI producer. Right now he is on pace 14 HR and 44 RBI, fucking Matt Murton could do better than that. But he is gonna heat up anytime now, start clobbering HR's (which he doesn't do) and start knocking in tons of runs (which he has never done). Keep believing in Milton Bradley, all i see is a average player at best getting paid to act like a better baseball player than he really is. At least he has gone from "sucks ass" to "passable" but if your expecting more than that your gonna be disappointed.

I think the Cubs need to bust out the RBI-O-Meter for Bradley and see if he can hit 20 RBI before the All-Star break. God damn that's just pathetic thinking about it, and people still are on the Bradley band wagon?

"We"? You speak French now?

My own issues with Bradley's brain farts notwithstanding, he has a proven record as a damn fine hitter. Save the angst for the Clusterfuck thread.

Bradley's posing after his brain fart got me pissed off at him, but now that has worn off. Hitting wise Bradley has come around and one would think he will approach his career norms this season.

[ChuckD]

Just for context...

OPS+ is adjusted for park factors and position.  It doesn't compare catchers to 3B.  It doesn't matter if you play your home games at Minute Maid or Citi Field.  Also, a 143 OPS+ means that the player has an OPS (remember, it's "adjusted") that 43% than average.

Another thing...OPS+ is a nice, easy stat.  It is by no means a complete stat, and one could argue that no stat by itself should be used in isolation.  Context.

Oleg is right, although you can get a little context by comparing the OPS+ to that of other players at the position.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-burdens-of-being-average/

Code Select Expand

2007 OPS+ by position
Pos   Mean   Median
C      86     83
1B    115    108
2B     96    100
3B    109    101
SS     94     94
RF    111    105
CF     97     88
LF    107    101

Edit: I misread Oleg's post to say "OPS+ is adjusted for park factors but not position."

[cml]

I am pretty sure OPS+ is not adjusted for position or the median of each position would be 100.

[Oleg]

Just for context...

OPS+ is adjusted for park factors and position.  It doesn't compare catchers to 3B.  It doesn't matter if you play your home games at Minute Maid or Citi Field.  Also, a 143 OPS+ means that the player has an OPS (remember, it's "adjusted") that 43% than average.

Another thing...OPS+ is a nice, easy stat.  It is by no means a complete stat, and one could argue that no stat by itself should be used in isolation.  Context.

Oleg is right, although you can get a little context by comparing the OPS+ to that of other players at the position.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-burdens-of-being-average/

Code Select Expand

2007 OPS+ by position
Pos   Mean   Median
C      86     83
1B    115    108
2B     96    100
3B    109    101
SS     94     94
RF    111    105
CF     97     88
LF    107    101

I am pretty sure OPS+ is not adjusted for position or the median of each position would be 100.

I thought the same thing.  From the article:

(Aside: For this little study, any player who spends at least half his games as a center fielder had all of his plate appearances count toward this sample, so long as he accrued more than 100 plate appearances. So guys who played multiple positions, like Ryan Freel, had all of their hitting stats counted toward the position at which they played most often. Not a perfect system by any means.)

I think that may take care of the disparity.

[cml]

Just for context...

OPS+ is adjusted for park factors and position.  It doesn't compare catchers to 3B.  It doesn't matter if you play your home games at Minute Maid or Citi Field.  Also, a 143 OPS+ means that the player has an OPS (remember, it's "adjusted") that 43% than average.

Another thing...OPS+ is a nice, easy stat.  It is by no means a complete stat, and one could argue that no stat by itself should be used in isolation.  Context.

Oleg is right, although you can get a little context by comparing the OPS+ to that of other players at the position.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-burdens-of-being-average/

Code Select Expand

2007 OPS+ by position
Pos   Mean   Median
C      86     83
1B    115    108
2B     96    100
3B    109    101
SS     94     94
RF    111    105
CF     97     88
LF    107    101

I am pretty sure OPS+ is not adjusted for position or the median of each position would be 100.

I thought the same thing.  From the article:

(Aside: For this little study, any player who spends at least half his games as a center fielder had all of his plate appearances count toward this sample, so long as he accrued more than 100 plate appearances. So guys who played multiple positions, like Ryan Freel, had all of their hitting stats counted toward the position at which they played most often. Not a perfect system by any means.)

I think that may take care of the disparity.

The OPS+ number for an individual player is not affected by the positon he plays.  That article is attempting to explain how positional averages are calculated and is really meant for the hard-core SABR geeks.  I doubt if most fans care whther Ryan Freel's numbers get lumped in with centerfielders or thirdbasemen.