Crazy Uncle Milton's Shot Blasting Sploogefest Emporium

[Gil Gunderson]

Specifics matter because he's painting with such a tremendously big brush, uniformly castigating nearly every Cubs fan who comes to Wrigley.  If he has specifics, call them out to security and get them out of there.  If not, then simply play through it.  

Citing the article you mentioned, let's parse out his exact words.  Where is he mitigating or qualifying his comments?

"I'm talking about hatred, period," he said. "I'm talking about when I go to eat at a restaurant, I have to listen to the waiters bad-mouthing me at another table, sitting in a restaurant, that's what I'm talking about -- everything."

"What can you do?" he said. "You can't do nothing. You listen to them yell at you."

"I don't regret anything," he replied. "I regret there are idiots in the world. That's what I regret."

After making his remarks, Bradley suggested this kind of behavior is commonplace, and that the Chicago media is well aware of it.

"It's not an issue," he said. "It's nothing brand-new. It's nothing that just started when Milton Bradley came here. It's the same stuff [the media] wrote about at the beginning of the year. It's not like it's a surprise or a shock or brand-new to me or anyone else. That's the way it has been. It's not a brand-new story. There's nothing new to write about."

So, put succinctly, Milton said, "Oh, you know, it's everything, it's they, them, the other guy, the idiots.  It commonplace, though.  It's not new.  You know what's going on, wink wink, nudge nudge."

That's a pretty general and sweeping statement.  Come up with some concrete, Milt.

Second, you make an absurd dialectic here in re: the media's treatment of Milt.  Either he acts like his normal self and the media writes about that, or he doesn't and they say he's quiet.  No, how about Milt saying, at the beginning of the year, "I'm going to reform my image, etc. etc."  What does the media report then, "Bradley wants to reshape image."

If he then fails, he fails, and is an asshole.  If he succeeds, then he wins some humanitarian award or whatever.  However, it is not the media's fault that Milton Bradley is an asshole.

[PenFoe]

The Trib threw race in there?  A black man throws the word hatred out and there is a good chance that he isn't referring to just getting booed.  Jacque did the same shit, ditto Latroy, ditto Dusty.  It's a cop out for the boos.  Also, why can't he substantiate the claim.  Why can't he give us an example?

Or maybe...just maybe, Cubs fans are actually racist.

[*In a Nutsack]

The Trib threw race in there?  A black man throws the word hatred out and there is a good chance that he isn't referring to just getting booed.  Jacque did the same shit, ditto Latroy, ditto Dusty.  It's a cop out for the boos.  Also, why can't he substantiate the claim.  Why can't he give us an example?

Or maybe...just maybe, Cubs fans are actually racist.

Or, maybe it's a legitimate question as to why he can't substantiate the claim.  Though, I'd guess it's a mix of both.

[Oleg]

Just as a point of reference, Ted Williams, Reggie Jackson and Ty Cobb were all assholes as well.  I'm not saying Bradley's production is on their level.  Would Gil (or anyone else who hates Bradley's attitude) take any of these guys on the team?  Is that the cutoff for when you'd deal with a "clubhouse cancer" (whetever the fuck that means), a Hall of Famer?  Where is that cutoff?  What kind of production would make one forget that player A is an asshole?

Is any of this a story if his OPS is .999?

[Eli]

Citing the article you mentioned, let's parse out his exact words.  

I don't think parsing out Milton Bradley's exact words is going to shed light on anything.  I don't think he's the kind of guy who calculates his sentences all that carefully.

[PenFoe]

The Trib threw race in there?  A black man throws the word hatred out and there is a good chance that he isn't referring to just getting booed.  Jacque did the same shit, ditto Latroy, ditto Dusty.  It's a cop out for the boos.  Also, why can't he substantiate the claim.  Why can't he give us an example?

Or maybe...just maybe, Cubs fans are actually racist.

Or, maybe it's a legitimate question as to why he can't substantiate the claim.  Though, I'd guess it's a mix of both.

Or maybe he realized that once he went down the race card road there was no turning back and he knew it wasn't the Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion so he decided it wasn't worth it.

[Gil Gunderson]

The Trib threw race in there?  A black man throws the word hatred out and there is a good chance that he isn't referring to just getting booed.  Jacque did the same shit, ditto Latroy, ditto Dusty.  It's a cop out for the boos.  Also, why can't he substantiate the claim.  Why can't he give us an example?

Or maybe...just maybe, Cubs fans are actually racist.

Some probably are, but white guys have been booed before and run out of town.  Todd Hundley, Jeff Blauser, (I hope) Aaron Miles just to name a few.

But can't the same be said for any major American city?  Philly?  Dallas?  I mean, I find it hard to believe that this is a uniquely Chicago phenomenon.

And to answer Oleg's question, first all, Ty Cobb is not simply an asshole.  Didn't he actually kill a man in the stands?  But beyond that point, I think we need to separate Bradley's assholishness from these racial accusations.  If Bradley's hitting like Ibanez, then I don't care about him being an asshole.  However, if he is hitting like Ibanez and cries racism, then I still apply the same analysis, probably even more so, because it's pure racism, as opposed to mixed motive racism.

[Kermit, B.]

What end does it serve to give specifics? Would it make you feel better to know that Bradley came out and said someone called him a "nigger" instead of simply implying it? Why does he need to get specific? You really think he hasn't been subjected to "hatred" at the hands of some Cubs fans. Please note the emphasis as you claim he painted you with a broad brush -- he didn't. It was certainly news to you that Milton has managed to make good on his contract. I'm willing to assume that some of the many unintelligent Cubs fans are still oblivious to the fact. Dave Kaplan certainly refuses to believe it, pointing out his HR/RBI numbers and Bradley's refusal to go tanning with him or something.

Why is he an asshole? He's been baited all year long because he has a reputation as a cancer and the Chicago media love to stir up controversy and sell papers. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Bradley takes the bait and lashes out, then he's a clubhouse cancer. If he doesn't and keeps his mouth shut, then he's an aloof quiet type who keeps to himself (read: not a "team player"). He can't win, yet you (who's a smart enough guy to "consider the source") buy into this bullshit. Milton and the Chicago press can't get along, so it's Milton's fault. Unbelievable.

Fuck it. Let's follow the mouthbreathing faithful's advice. Release Bradley, and go get Brian Giles or the like.  That'll be awesome.

Look, I agree with you that Milton's production has been fine.  Not $10M worth of fine, but better than Dave Kaplan is pretending it's been.  But to argue that he's anything other than a total sociopath is ludicrous at this point.  Milton's attitude problems are not some Chicago media invention, unless you're suggesting the media in LA, Texas, Oakland, Cleveland, and everywhere else is in on it, too.  Milton is a dick, and I can't fathom why you're arguing otherwise.  Now, I'm just speaking for myself here, but calling him an asshole doesn't mean I want to get rid of him.  I think he can exist in Chicago, and I would love to see him hitting second next year.  But he's a fucking dick.  So was Sammy.  So was Santo.  Why are you so intent on arguing that he's some misunderstood lamb?

All this being said, everyone knew he was a shithead coming into Chicago.  Some people hated him right off the bat, because he "replaced" DeRosa.  People like you, me, and I'm sure a lot of people on this board tried their best to accept him.  Some of the people in that latter category gave up on driving his bandwagon, because he has given us every reason to think he's a temperamental asshole.  That doesn't mean I don't want him on the team.  It just means I'm not going to buy a Milton Bradley jersey any time soon.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Just as a point of reference, Ted Williams, Reggie Jackson and Ty Cobb were all assholes as well.

Maybe Bradley's being heckled by the ghost of Cap Anson.

[ChuckD]

Why is he an asshole? He's been baited all year long because he has a reputation as a cancer and the Chicago media love to stir up controversy and sell papers. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Bradley takes the bait and lashes out, then he's a clubhouse cancer. If he doesn't and keeps his mouth shut, then he's an aloof quiet type who keeps to himself (read: not a "team player"). He can't win, yet you (who's a smart enough guy to "consider the source") buy into this bullshit. Milton and the Chicago press can't get along, so it's Milton's fault. Unbelievable.

THE DAMN LIBRUL MEDIA!

I think this is a bit of a cop out.  

Many members of the Chicago media have actually sat on Milton stories that the Cubs asked them to sit on (such as the story in May that, when asked how he felt after hitting .200 for the first month of the season, he responded "I feel like 30 million bucks.").  Its way too easy to blame a nebulous media for all that has gone wrong with this guy.

I didn't say he was faultless. I don't mean to place the blame entirely on the media, but it certainly seems that his reputation caused some different treatment. They want a story and they know if they stickpoke Milton, he'll give them something because the narrative is already established.

1.  Has said he doesn't have friends in the Cubs' clubhouse.

First, you're misquoting. And although the meaning is technically correct, you're attributing a sentiment to him that sounds completely antagonistic since you've removed the context.

Bradley said the Cubs are a "good group of guys," but he hasn't formed any real relationships yet.

"The teammates, they're there and they say all the right things," he said. "But it's just [small talk]."

"People are always watching and looking at everything I'm doing," he said. "My personality is more of a guy [who likes to] go unnoticed — to show up, do my job and go home, and really not have a whole lot of hoopla about it.

"I'm really not a guy who's seeking any attention. I'm not seeking to be noted, like 'Milton Bradley and the Chicago Cubs.' I don't want that. I just want to be part of a group and fit in and just love and be loved. That's the basis of what I am.

2.  Got called a "piece of shit" by his manager.  The manager also has said about him: "We pay this guy $30 million and its never his fault."

Again, you're taking something (said in the heat of the moment, no less) completely out of context.

Said after the confrontation:

Bradley: "I got a ton of respect for Lou," Bradley said. "When he says something, I really take heed and listen to it, not just the tone or the exact words but the sentiment behind it. I really think he had a heartfelt talk with me in his office, and I think we are both better for it."

Oh, hey. Context. Novel idea.

Lou: "I think this young man has put a lot of pressure on himself. I think he needs to relax and let his ability flow," Piniella said. "He's trying too hard and he's fighting it and that just compounds the problem over and over. Yesterday I had had enough, what can I say?"

Lou again: "I apologized for the last comment I made, told him he knows in the context I meant it. But I also told him that just can't continue, to have shenanigans that we've put up with. I told him he's going to hurt somebody, he's going to hurt himself."

3.  Battled with fans.

Not really sure what you're referencing here.

Edited for green font.

[PenFoe]

What end does it serve to give specifics? Would it make you feel better to know that Bradley came out and said someone called him a "nigger" instead of simply implying it? Why does he need to get specific? You really think he hasn't been subjected to "hatred" at the hands of some Cubs fans. Please note the emphasis as you claim he painted you with a broad brush -- he didn't. It was certainly news to you that Milton has managed to make good on his contract. I'm willing to assume that some of the many unintelligent Cubs fans are still oblivious to the fact. Dave Kaplan certainly refuses to believe it, pointing out his HR/RBI numbers and Bradley's refusal to go tanning with him or something.

Why is he an asshole? He's been baited all year long because he has a reputation as a cancer and the Chicago media love to stir up controversy and sell papers. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Bradley takes the bait and lashes out, then he's a clubhouse cancer. If he doesn't and keeps his mouth shut, then he's an aloof quiet type who keeps to himself (read: not a "team player"). He can't win, yet you (who's a smart enough guy to "consider the source") buy into this bullshit. Milton and the Chicago press can't get along, so it's Milton's fault. Unbelievable.

Fuck it. Let's follow the mouthbreathing faithful's advice. Release Bradley, and go get Brian Giles or the like.  That'll be awesome.

Look, I agree with you that Milton's production has been fine.  Not $10M worth of fine, but better than Dave Kaplan is pretending it's been.  But to argue that he's anything other than a total sociopath is ludicrous at this point.  Milton's attitude problems are not some Chicago media invention, unless you're suggesting the media in LA, Texas, Oakland, Cleveland, and everywhere else is in on it, too.  Milton is a dick, and I can't fathom why you're arguing otherwise.  Now, I'm just speaking for myself here, but calling him an asshole doesn't mean I want to get rid of him.  I think he can exist in Chicago, and I would love to see him hitting second next year.  But he's a fucking dick.  So was Sammy.  So was Santo.  Why are you so intent on arguing that he's some misunderstood lamb?

All this being said, everyone knew he was a shithead coming into Chicago.  Some people hated him right off the bat, because he "replaced" DeRosa.  People like you, me, and I'm sure a lot of people on this board tried their best to accept him.  Some of the people in that latter category gave up on driving his bandwagon, because he has given us every reason to think he's a temperamental asshole.  That doesn't mean I don't want him on the team.  It just means I'm not going to buy a Milton Bradley jersey any time soon.

THIS.
You should have your own blog with articles on it.

[ChuckD]

Look, I agree with you that Milton's production has been fine.  Not $10M worth of fine, but better than Dave Kaplan is pretending it's been.

Correct. His production has been better than the $6.3 million he's being paid for this year.  But not better than the $10 million he's hypothetically being paid this year.

But to argue that he's anything other than a total sociopath is ludicrous at this point. Milton's attitude problems are not some Chicago media invention, unless you're suggesting the media in LA, Texas, Oakland, Cleveland, and everywhere else is in on it, too.  Milton is a dick, and I can't fathom why you're arguing otherwise.  Now, I'm just speaking for myself here, but calling him an asshole doesn't mean I want to get rid of him. I think he can exist in Chicago, and I would love to see him hitting second next year.  But he's a fucking dick.  So was Sammy.  So was Santo.  Why are you so intent on arguing that he's some misunderstood lamb?

All this being said, everyone knew he was a shithead coming into Chicago.  Some people hated him right off the bat, because he "replaced" DeRosa.  People like you, me, and I'm sure a lot of people on this board tried their best to accept him.  Some of the people in that latter category gave up on driving his bandwagon, because he has given us every reason to think he's a temperamental asshole.  That doesn't mean I don't want him on the team.  It just means I'm not going to buy a Milton Bradley jersey any time soon.

"Sociopath" is a strong word. Milton's no saint -- few ballplayers are -- but I certainly don't think he's a sociopath. The fact that he's consistently shown remorse should be a strong indicator to the contrary. He's got some anger issues, sure. Temperamental? Absolutely. He also probably had a pretty shitty upbringing from what I hear, so that's to be expected. He's been alienated for the better part of his life and so he's isolated himself. I seem to recall that even he acknowledged as much. But from the interviews I've seen, no, he doesn't appear to be an asshole.

He comes off as a guy who doesn't want attention, but happens to excel at an occupation that comes with a big amount of public interaction. That being said, I try to not watch the Cubs. Maybe he is an asshole and I've just missed it. Maybe he's an asshole because he doesn't like to participate in homoerotic shenanigans. Maybe he's a huge jerk and he took a dump on Studs Terkel's grave or something. Whatever he is, I guess I don't particularly care all that much. So long as he earns his check, he's fine in my book.

[MAD]

Ty Cobb is not simply an asshole.  Didn't he actually kill a man in the stands?

Wha wha wha what?

I'm pretty sure that even in the old-timey days, murder, as witnessed by hundreds of fans, would likely have ended Cobb's career, no matter how great he was.

I would like to subscribe to Gil's baseball history.  Sounds much more colorful than the one I was brought up on, wherein Cobb merely beat fans up.

[Jon]

Ty Cobb is not simply an asshole.  Didn't he actually kill a man in the stands?

Wha wha wha what?

I'm pretty sure that even in the old-timey days, murder, as witnessed by hundreds of fans, would likely have ended Cobb's career, no matter how great he was.

I would like to subscribe to Gil's baseball history.  Sounds much more colorful than the one I was brought up on, wherein Cobb merely beat fans up.

In Gil's history, Cobb's worst crime was allowing any of a number of animals to defecate in outhouses that were clearly meant for human bodily waste only.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Ty Cobb is not simply an asshole.  Didn't he actually kill a man in the stands?

Wha wha wha what?

I'm pretty sure that even in the old-timey days, murder, as witnessed by hundreds of fans, would likely have ended Cobb's career, no matter how great he was.

I would like to subscribe to Gil's baseball history.  Sounds much more colorful than the one I was brought up on, wherein Cobb merely beat fans up.

http://boards.history.com/topic/Baseball/Did-Ty-Cobb/600016730

Did Ty Cobb get away with murder?

On another topic someone said Ty Cobb murdered someone and was never prosicuted. Is this true? TRAVIS

This story is not completely correct, and it continues to circulate and tarnish Cobb's image. Al Stump first reported it and he never bothered to investigate the claim. Here's what we know: in 1912, after Cobb's infamous run-in with heckler Claude Lucker in New York, which resulted in the Tigers going on strike, Cobb and his wife were ambushed by three men in Detroit. They were not going to the ballpark in Detroit, but were driving to the train station so Cobb could travel to Syracuse to play an exhibition game. The men acted as if their automobile was broken down, and waved down Cobb. When Cobb got out of his car, the men attacked him. Cobb brandished a gun and chased one of the men who was fleeing. According to Stump, Cobb claimed in 1961, that he killed that man in an alley. This is highly unlikely, since no bodies were found in Detroit during this period that match that story. Most likely, though we'll never know, Cobb fought the three men, chased one down and may have pistol-whipped him. But he almost certainly didn't kill a man. The attack was reported in the papers and the Tiger trainer stitched Cobb up on the train, so it would have been news if a body had been found in an alley or a street in Detroit

On the other hand, another poster does offer a compelling counterargument...

i heard he stabbed a african american man before, but i dont know if its true, but in my opinion yes, i think he did.