Crazy Uncle Milton's Shot Blasting Sploogefest Emporium

[Quality Start Machine]

You're discussing Great Assholes in Baseball History and no Rogers Hornsby?

Also, Tris Speaker was a Klansman.

So, there's that.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Adding...

http://www.sabr.org/cmsfiles/Ty_Cobb_Memorial_Collection-Text.htm

In 1996, writing for the SABR publication, The National Pastime, on pp. 25-28, "Ty Cobb Did Not Commit Murder",  Doug Roberts tells of his own personal research into this issue.  Doug was a lawyer, who specialized in forensics, was into criminal law, and had started his career as a prosecutor. So to satisfy his own curiosity, he plunged into his research.

To make a long article shorter, Doug went to Detroit, to the Detroit Medical Examiner's office, and sat and reviewed all the autopsy records on microfilm for August and September, 1912. They also visited the archives where the coroner's files for that year were stored. The records included name, location, age, cause.  They contained no victim even remotely resembling a man dying of blunt trauma to the skull. The examination of the Medical Examiner's records occurred in Jan. 1994.  He also reviewed all the Detroit newspapers for the weeks following the mugging, specially looking for that press report.

After two days of painstaking microfilm viewing, he could find no mention in any of the Detroit papers of such a discovery.  So Doug Roberts concludes that in the absence of a body, no homicide can be just assumed, even if an incensed man brags, in a state of intoxication, that he killed someone. Drunk men are known to blow steam & smoke.

...

In his 1996 National Pastime article, Doug Roberts goes on to provide us with the following further information as to motive.  "Although Ty had told the Syracuse Journal reporter that the attack was anonymous and unexpected, it appears to have been anything but."  Evidence he uncovered in the Cooperstown's Ty Cobb file and from the Detroit newspaper accounts of the incident strongly suggested that Ty was attacked for specific reason.  Also that he knew why it happened, and that he knew who had  arranged it.

Several days before the stabbing incident, Ty had gotten into an argument with a newsboy named "Scabby" over a craps game in the Detroit clubhouse.  Ty gave the youth a beating, and his attack several days later was in retaliation by Scabby's gang friends for the beating which he had administered on the youth.  Apparently, after the mugging, Ty met the newsboy alone again and gave him a beating.

[Kermit, B.]

Look, I agree with you that Milton's production has been fine.  Not $10M worth of fine, but better than Dave Kaplan is pretending it's been.

Correct. His production has been better than the $6.3 million he's being paid for this year.  But not better than the $10 million he's hypothetically being paid this year.

But to argue that he's anything other than a total sociopath is ludicrous at this point. Milton's attitude problems are not some Chicago media invention, unless you're suggesting the media in LA, Texas, Oakland, Cleveland, and everywhere else is in on it, too.  Milton is a dick, and I can't fathom why you're arguing otherwise.  Now, I'm just speaking for myself here, but calling him an asshole doesn't mean I want to get rid of him. I think he can exist in Chicago, and I would love to see him hitting second next year.  But he's a fucking dick.  So was Sammy.  So was Santo.  Why are you so intent on arguing that he's some misunderstood lamb?

All this being said, everyone knew he was a shithead coming into Chicago.  Some people hated him right off the bat, because he "replaced" DeRosa.  People like you, me, and I'm sure a lot of people on this board tried their best to accept him.  Some of the people in that latter category gave up on driving his bandwagon, because he has given us every reason to think he's a temperamental asshole.  That doesn't mean I don't want him on the team.  It just means I'm not going to buy a Milton Bradley jersey any time soon.

"Sociopath" is a strong word. Milton's no saint -- few ballplayers are -- but I certainly don't think he's a sociopath. The fact that he's consistently shown remorse should be a strong indicator to the contrary. He's got some anger issues, sure. Temperamental? Absolutely. He also probably had a pretty shitty upbringing from what I hear, so that's to be expected. He's been alienated for the better part of his life and so he's isolated himself. I seem to recall that even he acknowledged as much. But from the interviews I've seen, no, he doesn't appear to be an asshole.

He comes off as a guy who doesn't want attention, but happens to excel at an occupation that comes with a big amount of public interaction. That being said, I try to not watch the Cubs. Maybe he is an asshole and I've just missed it. Maybe he's an asshole because he doesn't like to participate in homoerotic shenanigans. Maybe he's a huge jerk and he took a dump on Studs Terkel's grave or something. Whatever he is, I guess I don't particularly care all that much. So long as he earns his check, he's fine in my book.

I thought he got a $4M signing bonus and $5M for the 2009 season according to Cot's.  I don't know where you got your number.

I'll stand behind my "sociopath" comment.  Since you're intent on mincing words, the WHO describes the symptoms of dissocial personality disorder as:

(1) Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
(2) Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
(3) Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty to establish them.
(4) Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
(5) Incapacity to experience guilt, or to profit from adverse experience, particularly punishment.
(6) Marked proneness to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behaviour bringing the subject into conflict with society.

I think definitely a few of those are dead on in describing Milton's behavior.  But if you want to just nitpick at words, I guess I'm done with this argument, because that's annoying.

[fiveouts]

Again, you're taking something (said in the heat of the moment, no less) completely out of context.

Said after the confrontation:

Bradley: "I got a ton of respect for Lou," Bradley said. "When he says something, I really take heed and listen to it, not just the tone or the exact words but the sentiment behind it. I really think he had a heartfelt talk with me in his office, and I think we are both better for it."

Oh, hey. Context. Novel idea.

Lou: "I think this young man has put a lot of pressure on himself. I think he needs to relax and let his ability flow," Piniella said. "He's trying too hard and he's fighting it and that just compounds the problem over and over. Yesterday I had had enough, what can I say?"

Lou again: "I apologized for the last comment I made, told him he knows in the context I meant it. But I also told him that just can't continue, to have shenanigans that we've put up with. I told him he's going to hurt somebody, he's going to hurt himself."

I guess I'm a little more skeptical of statements made after the PR people get involved.  You call it "context," I call it "damage control".

[*In a Nutsack]

The Cubs suck.

[Jon]

The Cubs suck.

I hate them so very much.

[ChuckD]

I think definitely a few of those are dead on in describing Milton's behavior.  But if you want to just nitpick at words, I guess I'm done with this argument, because that's annoying.

I'm not nitpicking. "Sociopath" is a specific diagnosis, not a blanket descriptor for every jerk with an attitude problem. Even you genuinelly consider Milton to be a "sociopath", then I guess I'm at a loss for why he would also be an asshole. The behavior would be largely out of his control. Wouldn't that be a reason to be more empathetic toward his plight?

In any event, I didn't intend to be confrontational toward you as we seem to be of the same basic opinion. We both think he's earned his contract. You want him to shut up. I don't really care one way or the other if he shuts up.

My main problem with the Milton issue is the perception that he hasn't earned his contract. It's flawed and been proven untrue, yet it continues to be publicized because people who don't understand player valuation are throwing around HR and RBI totals.

I can certainly agree with you that this argument is stupid. Here's a scantily-clad lass:

[Slaky]

I think definitely a few of those are dead on in describing Milton's behavior.  But if you want to just nitpick at words, I guess I'm done with this argument, because that's annoying.

I'm not nitpicking. "Sociopath" is a specific diagnosis, not a blanket descriptor for every jerk with an attitude problem. Even you genuinelly consider Milton to be a "sociopath", then I guess I'm at a loss for why he would also be an asshole. The behavior would be largely out of his control. Wouldn't that be a reason to be more empathetic toward his plight?

In any event, I didn't intend to be confrontational toward you as we seem to be of the same basic opinion. We both think he's earned his contract. You want him to shut up. I don't really care one way or the other if he shuts up.

My main problem with the Milton issue is the perception that he hasn't earned his contract. It's flawed and been proven untrue, yet it continues to be publicized because people who don't understand player valuation are throwing around HR and RBI totals.

I can certainly agree with you that this argument is stupid. Here's a scantily-clad lass:

Nitpicking.

[ChuckD]

Nitpicking.

God damn you, Slaky. Don't make me post more tits.

[Gil Gunderson]

[sarcasm]Oh, I'm sure many a ballplayer has had someone knock off another for him.  I can't prove it, but I feel that it is true.[/sarcasm]

I guess the story I always remembered was that the heckler later died from his injuries.  Good research, though.

I do have a crazy interpretation of baseball history.  And keep your damn cats away from my damn toilet.  My foaeces only!!!

[Waco Kid]

Ahh, the continuing Milton Bradley saga. In other words, Go Bears.

[Slaky]

Nitpicking.

God damn you, Slaky. Don't make me post more tits.

Hey, I can't make you do anything.

[ChuckD]

Nitpicking.

God damn you, Slaky. Don't make me post more tits.

Hey, I can't make you do anything.

Do you see what happens, Slaky? Do you see what happens when you find a misspelling in that post?

This is what happens, Slaky.



This is what happens.



This is what happens when you find a misspelling in that post.

[Gil Gunderson]

I think definitely a few of those are dead on in describing Milton's behavior.  But if you want to just nitpick at words, I guess I'm done with this argument, because that's annoying.

I'm not nitpicking. "Sociopath" is a specific diagnosis, not a blanket descriptor for every jerk with an attitude problem. Even you genuinelly consider Milton to be a "sociopath", then I guess I'm at a loss for why he would also be an asshole. The behavior would be largely out of his control. Wouldn't that be a reason to be more empathetic toward his plight?

In any event, I didn't intend to be confrontational toward you as we seem to be of the same basic opinion. We both think he's earned his contract. You want him to shut up. I don't really care one way or the other if he shuts up.

My main problem with the Milton issue is the perception that he hasn't earned his contract. It's flawed and been proven untrue, yet it continues to be publicized because people who don't understand player valuation are throwing around HR and RBI totals.

I can certainly agree with you that this argument is stupid. Here's a scantily-clad lass:




I disagree with everything, even though we seem to have come to a consensus.  Photo please?

[Jon]

Um...I too, think Chuck D is nitpicking....