The Unresolved Bullpen Angst Thread

[PenFoe]

Look, someone has to play the part of "Guy who doesn't like this trade"...I drew the shortest straw.

Or I guess someone else can take it.

DwightKurtz: am I crazy or is Jim Hendry effing insane for making that deal?
DwightKurtz: maybe we're just over-valueing our own, like typical Cub fans, But Gorzo is a heaping pile of shizz-it
DwightKurtz: that's great, let's go get some more guys who were good in 2007 and injured in 2008. Those are the kind of guys teams win championships with

[JD]

Because Grabow is a lefty who doesn't pitch that well against lefties and Gorzellany can't break the Pirates rotation?
Hart's been reasonably solid lately and Harrison has some nice stats.

Lefties in the last three years against Grabow have a .652 OPS.

Gorzellany's coming back from injury, so the Pirates were basically just playing it safe with him in Triple A.  He's also had major league success before and he's still only 26.  Given that the Cubs will control him for another 3.5 seasons, it's definitely worth a chance to see if he returns to 2007 form.

As for Hart, he still has a 1.48 WHIP this year.  He's been very lucky lately.

I agree with Eli.  He's using numbers, but it's only a few of them.  Also, I'm pretty familiar with 'em, too.  26?  I was just that age a few years ago.  5?  I have five fingers on my toes.  It's a little weird, but it helps me remember.  Remember the time I ate 1.48 chili dogs?  No?  Well, it'd be strange if ya did, goofy.  You weren't even there!  LOL

But, seriously, Eli's right as rain on this one.  I've forgotten what we were talking about, but I bet he backed up his argument pretty well.

[CT III]

Because Grabow is a lefty who doesn't pitch that well against lefties and Gorzellany can't break the Pirates rotation?
Hart's been reasonably solid lately and Harrison has some nice stats.

Lefties in the last three years against Grabow have a .652 OPS.

Gorzellany's coming back from injury, so the Pirates were basically just playing it safe with him in Triple A.  He's also had major league success before and he's still only 26.  Given that the Cubs will control him for another 3.5 seasons, it's definitely worth a chance to see if he returns to 2007 form.

As for Hart, he still has a 1.48 WHIP this year.  He's been very lucky lately.

I agree with Eli.  He's using numbers, but it's only a few of them.  Also, I'm pretty familiar with 'em, too.  26?  I was just that age a few years ago.  5?  I have five fingers on my toes.  It's a little weird, but it helps me remember.  Remember the time I ate 1.48 chili dogs?  No?  Well, it'd be strange if ya did, goofy.  You weren't even there!  LOL

But, seriously, Eli's right as rain on this one.  I've forgotten what we were talking about, but I bet he backed up his argument pretty well.

I can't believe this is all we have to show for Freddy Bynum.

[MAD]

Because Grabow is a lefty who doesn't pitch that well against lefties and Gorzellany can't break the Pirates rotation?
Hart's been reasonably solid lately and Harrison has some nice stats.

Lefties in the last three years against Grabow have a .652 OPS.

Gorzellany's coming back from injury, so the Pirates were basically just playing it safe with him in Triple A.  He's also had major league success before and he's still only 26.  Given that the Cubs will control him for another 3.5 seasons, it's definitely worth a chance to see if he returns to 2007 form.

As for Hart, he still has a 1.48 WHIP this year.  He's been very lucky lately.

I agree with Eli.  He's using numbers, but it's only a few of them.  Also, I'm pretty familiar with 'em, too.  26?  I was just that age a few years ago.  5?  I have five fingers on my toes.  It's a little weird, but it helps me remember.  Remember the time I ate 1.48 chili dogs?  No?  Well, it'd be strange if ya did, goofy.  You weren't even there!  LOL

But, seriously, Eli's right as rain on this one.  I've forgotten what we were talking about, but I bet he backed up his argument pretty well.

I can't believe this is all we have to show for Freddy Bynum.

As part of the deal, wasn't Freddy also ordered to leave his teeth for Gary Pressey?

[Internet Apex]

Because Grabow is a lefty who doesn't pitch that well against lefties and Gorzellany can't break the Pirates rotation?
Hart's been reasonably solid lately and Harrison has some nice stats.

Lefties in the last three years against Grabow have a .652 OPS.

Gorzellany's coming back from injury, so the Pirates were basically just playing it safe with him in Triple A.  He's also had major league success before and he's still only 26.  Given that the Cubs will control him for another 3.5 seasons, it's definitely worth a chance to see if he returns to 2007 form.

As for Hart, he still has a 1.48 WHIP this year.  He's been very lucky lately.

I agree with Eli.  He's using numbers, but it's only a few of them.  Also, I'm pretty familiar with 'em, too.  26?  I was just that age a few years ago.  5?  I have five fingers on my toes.  It's a little weird, but it helps me remember.  Remember the time I ate 1.48 chili dogs?  No?  Well, it'd be strange if ya did, goofy.  You weren't even there!  LOL

But, seriously, Eli's right as rain on this one.  I've forgotten what we were talking about, but I bet he backed up his argument pretty well.

I can't believe this is all we have to show for Freddy Bynum.

As part of the deal, wasn't Freddy also ordered to leave his teeth for Gary Pressey?

Fork? Chuck?

[Shooter]

Crazy Rumor Guy says Grabow and Gorzelanny are on their way to our KUBBEEZ.

?

[Andy]

I'm sure Brenly will remind us that Grabow pitched in the WBC, which he blamed on every player who got off to a slow start.

He was OK in April: 1.74 ERA in 10 appearances (but guys hit .264 against him)
He was bad in May : 6.94 ERA in 13 appearances and batters hit a whopping .347 with power (.941 OPS)
In June?  12 games, 2.57 ERA, .163 average against.
July?  10 games, 2.38 ERA, .205 average against

The scary thing about him is that even now that he's pitching better he's walking too many guys.  9 BB to 15 K's in June, 7 BB to 9 K's in July.

Over the past three year he's been tough on lefties so I wouldn't go all Kaplan over his .275 average against them so far this year.

Grabow's not a stud, but he's pretty good, the best of the four pitchers in the deal, and he'll give the Cubs two lefties in the pen, and free SeanBearPig up to make a spot start.  If BJ Ryan unexpectedly remembers how to pitch, all the better.

[Weebs]

I'm sure Brenly will remind us that Grabow pitched in the WBC, which he blamed on every player who got off to a slow start.

He was OK in April: 1.74 ERA in 10 appearances (but guys hit .264 against him)
He was bad in May : 6.94 ERA in 13 appearances and batters hit a whopping .347 with power (.941 OPS)
In June?  12 games, 2.57 ERA, .163 average against.
July?  10 games, 2.38 ERA, .205 average against

The scary thing about him is that even now that he's pitching better he's walking too many guys.  9 BB to 15 K's in June, 7 BB to 9 K's in July.

Over the past three year he's been tough on lefties so I wouldn't go all Kaplan over his .275 average against them so far this year.

Grabow's not a stud, but he's pretty good, the best of the four pitchers in the deal, and he'll give the Cubs two lefties in the pen, and free SeanBearPig up to make a spot start.  If BJ Ryan unexpectedly remembers how to pitch builds a time machine, all the better.

87 mph'd.

[Lance Dicksons Arm]

Gorzelanny is the most interesting part of this trade for me, by a mile.  He had a really good 2007, wet the bed in Pittsburgh last season...but has been VERY good in AAA this season as a starter (better than Kevin Hart, for whatever that's worth).  So it's possible that he might end up a nice value here, and the best pitcher involved in this trade.   I hope he pulls a Zach Duke and finds it again after taking a short nap.

I wish I had more faith in Rothschild as a technician...there aren't many guys who have come here from somewhere else and become better at pitching.  I can't really think of anyone in the bullpen...but guys like Heilman, Eyre, Howry, Remlinger, Cotts, etc, etc sure do stick out as having regressed.   I hope that doesn't happen with Grabow.  The recent track record of bullpen acquisitions has been pretty bad outside of Kevin Gregg.

His issues with walks have been referenced, but Grabow's WHIP this season is 1.50.  Sean Marshall has been a better relief pitcher than he has, which is why this trade only makes sense to me if Marshall is on his way to getting stretched out.  Grabow has essentially had one really good season in 2008...and that's about it.   So I'm not as confident as some that he's going to be any type of difference maker.

I think the Cubs come out the winners as far as potential upside, but strictly because of Gorzelanny.  I don't have as much Kevin Hart love as some do.   

[Slaky]

Gorzelanny is the most interesting part of this trade for me, by a mile.  He had a really good 2007, wet the bed in Pittsburgh last season...but has been VERY good in AAA this season as a starter (better than Kevin Hart, for whatever that's worth).  So it's possible that he might end up a nice value here, and the best pitcher involved in this trade.   I hope he pulls a Zach Duke and finds it again after taking a short nap.

I wish I had more faith in Rothschild as a technician...there aren't many guys who have come here from somewhere else and become better at pitching.  I can't really think of anyone in the bullpen...but guys like Heilman, Eyre, Howry, Remlinger, Cotts, etc, etc sure do stick out as having regressed.   I hope that doesn't happen with Grabow.  The recent track record of bullpen acquisitions has been pretty bad outside of Kevin Gregg.

His issues with walks have been referenced, but Grabow's WHIP this season is 1.50.  Sean Marshall has been a better relief pitcher than he has, which is why this trade only makes sense to me if Marshall is on his way to getting stretched out.  Grabow has essentially had one really good season in 2008...and that's about it.   So I'm not as confident as some that he's going to be any type of difference maker.

I think the Cubs come out the winners as far as potential upside, but strictly because of Gorzelanny.  I don't have as much Kevin Hart love as some do.   

The trade is pretty meh. I hadn't realized that Gord Zillany was dominated AAA, so that's a plus. I'm not counting on much from BJ so Grabass is a nice pickup. I think we can all agree that Marshall has been a nice surprise and I hope they don't mess with a good thing by throwing him back into he rotation.

So do they get a hitter in the next 8 hours? If only every game was against Russ Ortiz.

[Slaky]

DPD - if you want to find yourself suddenly very strongly in favor of this trade, go read the comments on the Tribune story on this trade.

Some gems:

Horrible deal. Hart is young and was really coming into his own as a starter. He would be sorely needed next year, especially if Harden bolts as a free agent. Ascanio throws hard and Harrison bats .300 and steals bases.

This guy pitches his "Heart" out and gets traded to a last-place team for a guy with a career 4.x era?

Sending Fuld down, trading Hart.

I would have been happier had they sent Dempster, and I am being totally serious.

Thats the way it goes, first your money than your clothes. You saw what we did with players i. e. De Rosa, so why should we treat Hart any different.

I loathe us.

[Quality Start Machine]

DPD - if you want to find yourself suddenly very strongly in favor of this trade, go read the comments on the Tribune story on this trade.

Some gems:

Horrible deal. Hart is young and was really coming into his own as a starter. He would be sorely needed next year, especially if Harden bolts as a free agent. Ascanio throws hard and Harrison bats .300 and steals bases.

This guy pitches his "Heart" out and gets traded to a last-place team for a guy with a career 4.x era?

Sending Fuld down, trading Hart.

I would have been happier had they sent Dempster, and I am being totally serious.

Thats the way it goes, first your money than your clothes. You saw what we did with players i. e. De Rosa, so why should we treat Hart any different.

I loathe us.

Nothing about The Great Adam Dunn?

[Internet Apex]

DPD - if you want to find yourself suddenly very strongly in favor of this trade, go read the comments on the Tribune story on this trade.

Some gems:

Horrible deal. Hart is young and was really coming into his own as a starter. He would be sorely needed next year, especially if Harden bolts as a free agent. Ascanio throws hard and Harrison bats .300 and steals bases.

This guy pitches his "Heart" out and gets traded to a last-place team for a guy with a career 4.x era?

Sending Fuld down, trading Hart.

I would have been happier had they sent Dempster, and I am being totally serious.

Thats the way it goes, first your money than your clothes. You saw what we did with players i. e. De Rosa, so why should we treat Hart any different.

I loathe us.

Nothing about The Great Adam Dunn?

That's an NSBB phenomenon, I'm pretty sure. Trib messageboards are all DeRo all the time.

[Quality Start Machine]

DPD - if you want to find yourself suddenly very strongly in favor of this trade, go read the comments on the Tribune story on this trade.

Some gems:

Horrible deal. Hart is young and was really coming into his own as a starter. He would be sorely needed next year, especially if Harden bolts as a free agent. Ascanio throws hard and Harrison bats .300 and steals bases.

This guy pitches his "Heart" out and gets traded to a last-place team for a guy with a career 4.x era?

Sending Fuld down, trading Hart.

I would have been happier had they sent Dempster, and I am being totally serious.

Thats the way it goes, first your money than your clothes. You saw what we did with players i. e. De Rosa, so why should we treat Hart any different.

I loathe us.

Nothing about The Great Adam Dunn?

That's an NSBB phenomenon, I'm pretty sure. Trib messageboards are all DeRo all the time.

So windowlickers = NSBB, fat chicks = Trib?

[MAD]

Seeing those comments remind me of what life was like before the web 'sploded and we had places like Desipio.  I spent the better part of 2002 bashing my head against the wall at the chicagosports.com Cubs messageboard arguing against people who thought Roosevelt Brown was simply not getting a fair shake.