The Unresolved Bullpen Angst Thread

[Weebs]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

Not to mention, it was Soriano and Theriot's combined .330 OBP at the top of the order that really destroyed any chance Milton had to drive in runs.  The guy should have been looking to take a walk because the only other guy capable of hitting the baseball (Lee) was batting behind him for the first few months.

[fiveouts]

Agreed.  Dunn would still have been a good add, but he would, somehow, have made our outfield defense even worse than it is now.  Ibanez is a decent hitter, but nobody could have expected this from him.  Not to mention, he hasn't done much of anything since coming off the DL.

How many times have people come on here screaming "We'd be in first place if we only had better outfield defense!"?



I'd gladly take Dunn's 30 HRs and live with his shit defense.  

[Kermit, B.]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

Not to mention, it was Soriano and Theriot's combined .330 OBP at the top of the order that really destroyed any chance Milton had to drive in runs.  The guy should have been looking to take a walk because the only other guy capable of hitting the baseball (Lee) was batting behind him for the first few months.

And it is Lou who continues to put Theriot at the top of the lineup.  I know there is a lot of Lou love on the site, but dammit if he hasn't been at least part of the problem this year.

[Weebs]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

Not to mention, it was Soriano and Theriot's combined .330 OBP at the top of the order that really destroyed any chance Milton had to drive in runs.  The guy should have been looking to take a walk because the only other guy capable of hitting the baseball (Lee) was batting behind him for the first few months.

And it is Lou who continues to put Theriot at the top of the lineup.  I know there is a lot of Lou love on the site, but dammit if he hasn't been at least part of the problem this year.

I've hated Lou's in-game managing since he got here.  He might be a great manager when they're not playing, but for those 9 innings, his only jobs are to create a lineup and manage the bench/bullpen.  He has been terrible with the lineups, favors the righty/lefty matchup so much that Matt Murton was always coming in to pinch-hit with the game on the line, and Bob Howry/Aaron Heilman were never cut from the team.  Obviously he's done something right, but there's no reason that Aaron Miles' ability to switch-hit should be enough of a reason for him to ever step foot on a baseball diamond.

[Quality Start Machine]

Agreed.  Dunn would still have been a good add, but he would, somehow, have made our outfield defense even worse than it is now.  Ibanez is a decent hitter, but nobody could have expected this from him.  Not to mention, he hasn't done much of anything since coming off the DL.

How many times have people come on here screaming "We'd be in first place if we only had better outfield defense!"?



I'd gladly take Dunn's 30 HRs and live with his shit defense.  

Adam Dunn can eat the corn kernels out of beef cattle shit.

[Canadouche]

I hear a former ace closer might be available today, having recently been released by the Red Sox.

[Ghost of Dave Rosello]

Agreed.  Dunn would still have been a good add, but he would, somehow, have made our outfield defense even worse than it is now.  Ibanez is a decent hitter, but nobody could have expected this from him.  Not to mention, he hasn't done much of anything since coming off the DL.

How many times have people come on here screaming "We'd be in first place if we only had better outfield defense!"?



I'd gladly take Dunn's 30 HRs and live with his shit defense.  

Agreed.

Plus the hilarity that would ensue watching him try to play right field might lighten the mood around here.

[Ghost of Dave Rosello]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

Not to mention, it was Soriano and Theriot's combined .330 OBP at the top of the order that really destroyed any chance Milton had to drive in runs.  The guy should have been looking to take a walk because the only other guy capable of hitting the baseball (Lee) was batting behind him for the first few months.

And it is Lou who continues to put Theriot at the top of the lineup.  I know there is a lot of Lou love on the site, but dammit if he hasn't been at least part of the problem this year.

In Lou's defense, it's not like he's got a ton of great options for the leadoff spot.

Or second base

Or shortstop

[oog]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

At least Mark DeRosa had the guts to GIDP against Livan Hernandez in a similar situation.

[Dave B]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

Yeah, and a single might mean two RBIs, a double 2-3 RBI, a triple 3 RBI, and a homer would knock in four. In that situation, not only is he gonna get a pretty decent pitch 3-1 (most of the time), but he was supposed to be a good enough hitter (and was placed in a sopt in the line-up) to drive in runs. The pitches that pissed off Bradley to the point of getting dumped were too close to be taking in that situation. Getting dumped and ultimately suspended while looking for a walk was pretty brilliant statistical strategy.

Dusty was stupid to say that walks clog up the bases, but Bradley is a hitter and needs to be driving in runs in that situation, and preferably not by walking.

And say what you want about batting average, but a base-hit will score a guy from second base and a walk won't. Swing the fucking bat in RBI situations. You don't get paid $10 million a year to walk.

[Slaky]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

It's never going to happen Eli. Just let it go.

I don't know how you can hate on a guy for not swinging at a ball just to get his batting average and RBI numbers up. That makes zero sense.

But then again, maybe that's why Ryan Theriot has such a following. He'd happily roll a grounder to short when he's ahead in the count because it's scrappydoolicious.

[Kermit, B.]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

Not to mention, it was Soriano and Theriot's combined .330 OBP at the top of the order that really destroyed any chance Milton had to drive in runs.  The guy should have been looking to take a walk because the only other guy capable of hitting the baseball (Lee) was batting behind him for the first few months.

And it is Lou who continues to put Theriot at the top of the lineup.  I know there is a lot of Lou love on the site, but dammit if he hasn't been at least part of the problem this year.

In Lou's defense, it's not like he's got a ton of great options for the leadoff spot.

Or second base

Or shortstop

He has two far superior options at 1-2 in the lineup than Theriot and Soriano.  I don't fault Lou for sticking with Gregg for so long, because I really don't feel like he has substantially better options in the bullpen.  But he has stuck a 5-6 hitter and a 7-8 hitter (with the two worst OBPs of the guys who have played at least 80 games) at the top of his lineup for the better part of the year, and that's pretty inexcusable, in my opinion.  No matter how much Theriot looks like a top-of-the-order guy, he just isn't.

[Dave B]

Instead of swinging at a close pitch with a 3-1 count and the bases loaded to drive in runs, he'd rather spin in and take a walk. I saw it too many times this year. More concerned about drawing a walk. It did wonders for his batting average and RBI, didn't it?

If you're at the plate with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, you shouldn't be looking at "swing at anything close."  A hitter should look for a ball in a certain spot and if the pitch isn't there, take it.  A walk means an RBI in that spot.  Swinging at "something close" usually results in an out.

And batting average?  Who cares?

It's never going to happen Eli. Just let it go.

I don't know how you can hate on a guy for not swinging at a ball just to get his batting average and RBI numbers up. That makes zero sense.

But then again, maybe that's why Ryan Theriot has such a following. He'd happily roll a grounder to short when he's ahead in the count because it's scrappydoolicious.

Way to twist it all around, and even bring Theriot into it. Good job at generalizing.

If you guys actually think Bradley had a good year, then I'd like to know what games you were watching.

My point was that Bradley's offense came nowhere close to meeting the expectations we or (hopefully) Hendry had when they chose to sign him. They were determined to get more "left-handed" at the plate and this is the option they chose. If you simply looked at his OBP over the years, it was pretty good. But when you actually watch all of the games and see that there are numerous occasions when he's more concerned with taking a walk in RBI situations, it gets frustrating. And how many games did he miss due to injury, or more importantly, for Lou taking him out of the line-up because he wasn't hitting? Top all of that off with being a selfish, brooding prick and you can have your guy who's "pretty good at baseball". I guarantee they got more out of the 500K they paid Theriot than the 10 million they paid Miltie.

[Chuck to Chuck]

He has two far superior options at 1-2 in the lineup than Theriot and Soriano.  I don't fault Lou for sticking with Gregg for so long, because I really don't feel like he has substantially better options in the bullpen.  But he has stuck a 5-6 hitter and a 7-8 hitter (with the two worst OBPs of the guys who have played at least 80 games) at the top of his lineup for the better part of the year, and that's pretty inexcusable, in my opinion.  No matter how much Theriot looks like a top-of-the-order guy, he just isn't.

In defense of his Soriano-at-leadoff play, Lou clearly believed that Soriano would be worse out of the leadoff spot than in it (for whatever reason).  He did have a career OPS of .877 leading off which was his best OPS by batting slot.  His career OPS is .837 and his next best OPS by batting slot was .819 batting 5th.

Do you risk giving up 50 points of OPS to move a guy down in the order?  On a guy making as much money for as long as you are going to have him?  Do you risk Soriano getting pissy?  For 8 years?

[Slaky]

Agreed.  Dunn would still have been a good add, but he would, somehow, have made our outfield defense even worse than it is now.  Ibanez is a decent hitter, but nobody could have expected this from him.  Not to mention, he hasn't done much of anything since coming off the DL.

How many times have people come on here screaming "We'd be in first place if we only had better outfield defense!"?



I'd gladly take Dunn's 30 HRs and live with his shit defense.  

Agreed.

Plus the hilarity that would ensue watching him try to play right field might lighten the mood around here.

Nah, you're doing a hell of a job lightening the mood all by yourself.