The Unresolved Bullpen Angst Thread

[Kermit, B.]

He's an unbelievably streaky hitter, which is exactly why I said that, given more at-bats in the middle of the order, I think his numbers will look more like his numbers in the leadoff spot.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=soriaal01&year=Career&t=b#lineu

He has 2,197 plate appearances, the equivalent of nearly 3 and a half seasons, that say he bats worse elsewhere in the order compared to leadoff.

I think his non-leadoff numbers will look more like his non-leadoff numbers.  I think Lou thought that as well.

Oh, so we're just lumping the batting order into two categories?  "Leadoff" and "non-leadoff"?  That's...retarded.

I'm going to compile his stats in the odd-numbered spots in the lineup and compare them with his stats in the even-numbered spots and see how THOSE play out.

Guess who started it.

So, expecting his numbers in the 5th or 6th spot in the order to eventually look similar to his leadoff numbers is akin to saying that the 2-9 spots in the lineup are essentially the same thing?  Have you ever made a good argument?

[PenFoe]

He's an unbelievably streaky hitter, which is exactly why I said that, given more at-bats in the middle of the order, I think his numbers will look more like his numbers in the leadoff spot.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=soriaal01&year=Career&t=b#lineu

He has 2,197 plate appearances, the equivalent of nearly 3 and a half seasons, that say he bats worse elsewhere in the order compared to leadoff.

I think his non-leadoff numbers will look more like his non-leadoff numbers.  I think Lou thought that as well.

Oh, so we're just lumping the batting order into two categories?  "Leadoff" and "non-leadoff"?  That's...retarded.

I'm going to compile his stats in the odd-numbered spots in the lineup and compare them with his stats in the even-numbered spots and see how THOSE play out.

Guess who started it.

So, expecting his numbers in the 5th or 6th spot in the order to eventually look similar to his leadoff numbers is akin to saying that the 2-9 spots in the lineup are essentially the same thing?  Have you ever made a good argument?

Just when I thought talking about Kurt was the worst thing this message board had to offer.

[R-V]

Back to the bullpen: it's bad.

The bullpen has averaged 7.98 K/9 IP. That's very good, and is the 7th-best number in the majors. Unfortunately, they are also posting a horrendous 5.07 BB/9 IP. That's beyond horrible. It's the worst number in the league and if they keep this pace up it'll be the worst BB/9 IP posted by a team since 2004, when the Arizona Diamondbacks also posted a 5.07 number in a season in which they went 51-111. Yikes. The high walk rate has essentially eliminated the value the Cubs gain from their high strikeout rate, as they have the 3rd-worst K/BB ratio in the league despite the relatively high K rate. Only the Nationals and Pirates are worse.

I'll add one a few more things about the pen as a whole... they're not missing the zone as often as you'd think: their zone% is 48.6%, which is below average but not abysmal like their walk rate. What's really dragging them down is their 1st-strike%, which is 2nd-worst and their swing%, which is the lowest in the league. Basically, teams know they can just sit with their bats on their shoulders and let Cubs relievers walk them.

This will hammer home how poor the control on this team has been: of pitchers with at least 10 IP that are still on the team (i.e. including Patton but not Ascanio), Jeff Samardzija has the 3rd-lowest BB rate (4.44 BB/9 IP).

[Ghost of Dave Rosello]

Back to the bullpen: it's bad.

The bullpen has averaged 7.98 K/9 IP. That's very good, and is the 7th-best number in the majors. Unfortunately, they are also posting a horrendous 5.07 BB/9 IP. That's beyond horrible. It's the worst number in the league and if they keep this pace up it'll be the worst BB/9 IP posted by a team since 2004, when the Arizona Diamondbacks also posted a 5.07 number in a season in which they went 51-111. Yikes. The high walk rate has essentially eliminated the value the Cubs gain from their high strikeout rate, as they have the 3rd-worst K/BB ratio in the league despite the relatively high K rate. Only the Nationals and Pirates are worse.

I'll add one a few more things about the pen as a whole... they're not missing the zone as often as you'd think: their zone% is 48.6%, which is below average but not abysmal like their walk rate. What's really dragging them down is their 1st-strike%, which is 2nd-worst and their swing%, which is the lowest in the league. Basically, teams know they can just sit with their bats on their shoulders and let Cubs relievers walk them.

This will hammer home how poor the control on this team has been: of pitchers with at least 10 IP that are still on the team (i.e. including Patton but not Ascanio), Jeff Samardzija has the 3rd-lowest BB rate (4.44 BB/9 IP).

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

[PenFoe]

Back to the bullpen: it's bad.

The bullpen has averaged 7.98 K/9 IP. That's very good, and is the 7th-best number in the majors. Unfortunately, they are also posting a horrendous 5.07 BB/9 IP. That's beyond horrible. It's the worst number in the league and if they keep this pace up it'll be the worst BB/9 IP posted by a team since 2004, when the Arizona Diamondbacks also posted a 5.07 number in a season in which they went 51-111. Yikes. The high walk rate has essentially eliminated the value the Cubs gain from their high strikeout rate, as they have the 3rd-worst K/BB ratio in the league despite the relatively high K rate. Only the Nationals and Pirates are worse.

I'll add one a few more things about the pen as a whole... they're not missing the zone as often as you'd think: their zone% is 48.6%, which is below average but not abysmal like their walk rate. What's really dragging them down is their 1st-strike%, which is 2nd-worst and their swing%, which is the lowest in the league. Basically, teams know they can just sit with their bats on their shoulders and let Cubs relievers walk them.

This will hammer home how poor the control on this team has been: of pitchers with at least 10 IP that are still on the team (i.e. including Patton but not Ascanio), Jeff Samardzija has the 3rd-lowest BB rate (4.44 BB/9 IP).

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

[Ghost of Dave Rosello]

Back to the bullpen: it's bad.

The bullpen has averaged 7.98 K/9 IP. That's very good, and is the 7th-best number in the majors. Unfortunately, they are also posting a horrendous 5.07 BB/9 IP. That's beyond horrible. It's the worst number in the league and if they keep this pace up it'll be the worst BB/9 IP posted by a team since 2004, when the Arizona Diamondbacks also posted a 5.07 number in a season in which they went 51-111. Yikes. The high walk rate has essentially eliminated the value the Cubs gain from their high strikeout rate, as they have the 3rd-worst K/BB ratio in the league despite the relatively high K rate. Only the Nationals and Pirates are worse.

I'll add one a few more things about the pen as a whole... they're not missing the zone as often as you'd think: their zone% is 48.6%, which is below average but not abysmal like their walk rate. What's really dragging them down is their 1st-strike%, which is 2nd-worst and their swing%, which is the lowest in the league. Basically, teams know they can just sit with their bats on their shoulders and let Cubs relievers walk them.

This will hammer home how poor the control on this team has been: of pitchers with at least 10 IP that are still on the team (i.e. including Patton but not Ascanio), Jeff Samardzija has the 3rd-lowest BB rate (4.44 BB/9 IP).

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

[PenFoe]

Back to the bullpen: it's bad.

The bullpen has averaged 7.98 K/9 IP. That's very good, and is the 7th-best number in the majors. Unfortunately, they are also posting a horrendous 5.07 BB/9 IP. That's beyond horrible. It's the worst number in the league and if they keep this pace up it'll be the worst BB/9 IP posted by a team since 2004, when the Arizona Diamondbacks also posted a 5.07 number in a season in which they went 51-111. Yikes. The high walk rate has essentially eliminated the value the Cubs gain from their high strikeout rate, as they have the 3rd-worst K/BB ratio in the league despite the relatively high K rate. Only the Nationals and Pirates are worse.

I'll add one a few more things about the pen as a whole... they're not missing the zone as often as you'd think: their zone% is 48.6%, which is below average but not abysmal like their walk rate. What's really dragging them down is their 1st-strike%, which is 2nd-worst and their swing%, which is the lowest in the league. Basically, teams know they can just sit with their bats on their shoulders and let Cubs relievers walk them.

This will hammer home how poor the control on this team has been: of pitchers with at least 10 IP that are still on the team (i.e. including Patton but not Ascanio), Jeff Samardzija has the 3rd-lowest BB rate (4.44 BB/9 IP).

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

Yes, clearly his fault.
If only the pitching had been better.

[Kermit, B.]

Back to the bullpen: it's bad.

The bullpen has averaged 7.98 K/9 IP. That's very good, and is the 7th-best number in the majors. Unfortunately, they are also posting a horrendous 5.07 BB/9 IP. That's beyond horrible. It's the worst number in the league and if they keep this pace up it'll be the worst BB/9 IP posted by a team since 2004, when the Arizona Diamondbacks also posted a 5.07 number in a season in which they went 51-111. Yikes. The high walk rate has essentially eliminated the value the Cubs gain from their high strikeout rate, as they have the 3rd-worst K/BB ratio in the league despite the relatively high K rate. Only the Nationals and Pirates are worse.

I'll add one a few more things about the pen as a whole... they're not missing the zone as often as you'd think: their zone% is 48.6%, which is below average but not abysmal like their walk rate. What's really dragging them down is their 1st-strike%, which is 2nd-worst and their swing%, which is the lowest in the league. Basically, teams know they can just sit with their bats on their shoulders and let Cubs relievers walk them.

This will hammer home how poor the control on this team has been: of pitchers with at least 10 IP that are still on the team (i.e. including Patton but not Ascanio), Jeff Samardzija has the 3rd-lowest BB rate (4.44 BB/9 IP).

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

Yes, clearly his fault.
If only the pitching had been better.

Maybe if he taught them how to pitch IN THE PLAYOFFS!

[Ivy6]

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

This is one of the worst arguments I've in the last two weeks on this board, and that's saying something.

[Ghost of Dave Rosello]

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

This is one of the worst arguments I've in the last two weeks on this board, and that's saying something.

Nobody gives a shit who leads the league in any of those categories. That's an even worse argument for keeping that fucking clown on the staff.

[Saul Goodman]

Speaking of walks, there were quite a few groans about Gregg's walk of Eckstein last night, but it may not be entirely his fault:

[PenFoe]

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

This is one of the worst arguments I've in the last two weeks on this board, and that's saying something.

Nobody gives a shit who leads the league in any of those categories. That's an even worse argument for keeping that fucking clown on the staff.

I can't even tell if you're being serious anymore.

[Ivy6]

Yet Larry Rothschild still has a job. It's not like this is the first year a Cub staff has had a problem throwing strikes under Larry.

Seriously, why can't Larry teach those professional pitchers to just throw more strikes?
Maybe if he could do that, the Cubs would be able to lead the majors in strikeouts for 8 consecutive seasons and be in the top 5 in pitching for 3 years running?

Oh...wait.

And that's led to how many NL titles?

This is one of the worst arguments I've in the last two weeks on this board, and that's saying something.

Nobody gives a shit who leads the league in any of those categories. That's an even worse argument for keeping that fucking clown on the staff.

I can't even tell if you're being serious anymore.

Me either.  Are we saying the way to measure success of a pitching coach is by World Series appearances?  That's that stat we're settling on?  Even before "a staff's ability to get guys out and prevent runs from being scored" which had been discussed earlier?

[Quality Start Machine]

I used to bitch about Rothschild as much as anyone, possibly more.

But, the proof is in the pudding.

Either that, or there's a mystery coach somewhere the Cubs' pitchers are talking to, and Rothschild is just a front.

[MAD]

I used to bitch about Rothschild as much as anyone, possibly more.

But, the proof is in the pudding.

Either that, or there's a mystery coach somewhere the Cubs' pitchers are talking to, and Rothschild is just a front.

I can guarantee you didn't bitch about him as much as I did.

That said, he doesn't raise my ire like he used to.  For every two or three Aaron Heilemans who can't get his shit straight under Rothschild, there's a Randy Wells that provides some sort of validation.