The Chicago Shite Sox

[Quality Start Machine]

Is this a good place to revisit in more depth the boondoggle that is New Comiskey? They turned down a ballpark design that would eventually become Camden Yards because it was "too much like Wrigley", then opened their brand-spanking-new ballpark with every possible inch decked out in royal blue...Cubs blue.

Then there was the upper deck debacle, where they had to remove part of the upper deck after determining that nobody would sit in the cheap seats without a Sherpa there to guide them. What a beautiful clusterfuck.

Comiskey is considered the last of the "big bowl" cookie-cutter ballparks that were all the rage in the 1970's.  The next one built after it was Camden, then Jacobs (now Progressive) Field, the Ballpark in Arlington etc.  Way to be cutting edge, dipshits.

See that's the thing, Comiskey ISN'T one of the big bowl parks.  The cookie cutters were almost all baseball/football multi-use parks built during the 70s and 80s.  It's more an oddity than anything else.  The first of the wave of baseball-only parks to be built since Kauffman Stadium, but the only one that didn't embrace the retro-classic design.  It's just kind of an architectural freak, a weird one of a kind orphan of a baseball stadium.

To be fair, it's a hybrid. They took elements of Dodger Stadium and Kauffamn Stadium, but wanted to keep the stands' distance from the action a la the pre-Mt. Davis Oakland Coliseum.

During the Bears seemingly interminable stadium negotiations in the 90s (aside: I give it another 10 years before the Bears agitate for new digs), Mayor Daley suggested the Bears move into Sox Park.  I can't find the article but I recall reading just prior to the Soldier Field rehab passing in Springfield, that the Sox and city were entertaining a do-over baseball park in the South Loop with the Bears taking over Comiskular.

Would that have passed the NFL's minimum capacity guidelines? I don't think they greenlight any stadium that seats under 50K.

[Tony]

Is this a good place to revisit in more depth the boondoggle that is New Comiskey? They turned down a ballpark design that would eventually become Camden Yards because it was "too much like Wrigley", then opened their brand-spanking-new ballpark with every possible inch decked out in royal blue...Cubs blue.

Then there was the upper deck debacle, where they had to remove part of the upper deck after determining that nobody would sit in the cheap seats without a Sherpa there to guide them. What a beautiful clusterfuck.

Comiskey is considered the last of the "big bowl" cookie-cutter ballparks that were all the rage in the 1970's.  The next one built after it was Camden, then Jacobs (now Progressive) Field, the Ballpark in Arlington etc.  Way to be cutting edge, dipshits.

See that's the thing, Comiskey ISN'T one of the big bowl parks.  The cookie cutters were almost all baseball/football multi-use parks built during the 70s and 80s.  It's more an oddity than anything else.  The first of the wave of baseball-only parks to be built since Kauffman Stadium, but the only one that didn't embrace the retro-classic design.  It's just kind of an architectural freak, a weird one of a kind orphan of a baseball stadium.

To be fair, it's a hybrid. They took elements of Dodger Stadium and Kauffamn Stadium, but wanted to keep the stands' distance from the action a la the pre-Mt. Davis Oakland Coliseum.

During the Bears seemingly interminable stadium negotiations in the 90s (aside: I give it another 10 years before the Bears agitate for new digs), Mayor Daley suggested the Bears move into Sox Park.  I can't find the article but I recall reading just prior to the Soldier Field rehab passing in Springfield, that the Sox and city were entertaining a do-over baseball park in the South Loop with the Bears taking over Comiskular.

Would that have passed the NFL's minimum capacity guidelines? I don't think they greenlight any stadium that seats under 50K.

They would probably extend the upper deck all the way around, which would have got them there.

[Tony]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

[CBStew]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

[Brownie]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

This. I went to exactly one game at Old Comiskey, a Sunday afternoon game with Boston in Sept. 1990. They played just six more games there. I liked it more than I ever imagined I would. Again, it was because they had a horrible organization focused on the wrong things. They've improved the caliber of their organization and their marketing arm, but they lost a generation or two along the way.

[Quality Start Machine]

I used to go to Sox Park at least twice a year, courtesy of Chicago Public Schools. Plus, I always saved my dough to take my dad to a game on Fathers Day, and the Sox got that game every other year.

I never thought that much about the ballpark, other than the food was better than Wrigley Field. But it was a good time when Veeck owned the team.

[Brownie]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that had a pretty good Ken Hill as well as 22-year-old Pedro in 1994...)

You went to this game, a 1:30 matinee at Sox Park, followed by this game, a Ken Howell depantsing of the Cubs offense at Wrigley Field. Ryne Sandberg had the night off, so you saw three Hall of Famers play (Randy Johnson, Carlton Fisk and Andre Dawson), plus certain Hall of Famers Ken Griffey Jr and Edgar Martinez., plus a young, trim Sammy Sosa, not to mention future TV sages John Kruk, Mark Grace  and Harold Reynolds, and future legal system victim Lenny Dykstra. (Obviously, Ryne Sandberg and Greg Maddux were in uniform, but for whatever reason Zimmer gave Sandberg the night off).

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

[Quality Start Machine]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

dick.

[SKO]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

The whole choice quite?

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

dick.

Your opinions tends to be similar, if you need any validation from a REAL CANADIAN.

[Brownie]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

The 1990s Expos would have been interesting with Randy Johnson. 1994 was the lost season, but the 1996 club finished two out of the Wild Card behind LA, who wound up getting swept by the Braves (the Cardinals swept the Padres and then had the Braves down 3-1 before losing in 7).

Let's play a little "What If.."

The Expos keep Johnson, he and Pedro form a nice 1-2 combo in 1996, they easily win the Wild Card, and they'd face San Diego in the first round (can't face division rivals in the Divisional Series). Suppose they win that, and maybe the Cards win the Divisional Series 3-1 over Atlanta. Maybe the Expos win their NL Pennant over the Genius' first Cardinal team and then forestall the Yankee$ dynasty by beating them in the 1996 World Series?

Aw, forget it. Johnson spent most of 1996 on the DL with back problems.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

dick.

Your opinions tends to be similar, if you need any validation from a REAL CANADIAN.

Come to think of it, he's a regular Hockeenight reader.  There have been conversations at get togethers  in which he'll ask if I "read what Hockeenight wrote".

Oh how humiliating.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

DPD... I really regret nto going to old Comiskey more before they tore it down. It was my first game, and I only went there as a really little kid. By the time I was old enough to go to games on my own I was only interested in going to Wrigley and didn't appreciate having two old stadiums in town. I made two trips to Tiger Stadium before they got rid of it, and it was awesome. It was a dump, but it was an awesome dump. I imagine Comiskey was similar. But one was gone before I studied architecture, and the other was gone after. My appreciation for old buildings wasn't there as a bratty teen that only wanted to watch the Cubs.

I was taught that Comiskey was a dump and a disgrace.  So when I lived in Chicago as a kid I never went there.  It was not until I came to Chicago in 1988 to see my son get his MBA from UC that I finally went to a game at Comiskey.  It was a dump and run down, but it was cozy and charming.  The food put Wrigley's food to shame.  Plus I saw Randy Johnson pitching for Seattle.  Then I got back on the El and went to Wrigley for a night game.

I have to beat Huey to this, but your son must have gotten his MBA in 1989 or 1990, because Randy Johnson was the bait the landed the Montreal Expos the formidable left-hander Mark Langston in June 1989. This almost assured the Expos of winning the NL East, but there Langston sat in the Montreal dugout in September 1989, watching the Cubs dogpile in the middle of Stade Olympique.  (Now just imagine the Expos not making the trade and inserting Johnson into a rotation that

I have a Canadian brother-in-law who, besides being my go-to hockey expert grew up a big Expos fan and he had no use for Mark Langston, who bolted Montreal as soon as the '89 season ended and he had failed to lead the Expos to the postseason.  My BIL always likes to point out Langston's choice quite which was that "pitching in Montreal was like pitching in another country".

The whole choice quite?

These are good posts. Good discussion happening here on the baseball board.

[Brownie]

I think the bottom line is, if there was no strike, Montreal would have won the 1994 World Series.