Score some fucking runs thread

[Tank]

Intrepid Reader: Bonk

Stats can't tell you that Ronny Cedeno sucks. I'd like to see them even try.

[Bonk]

I guess that was an attempt at humor? When you're that un-funny it's hard to tell.

Also, I wasn't trying to be ironic before, assmaster, I was taking a shot at those overreliant on sabermetrics. Because, you know, Bill James always has to turn down managerial and GM jobs.

[ChuckD]

Also, I wasn't trying to be ironic before, assmaster, I was taking a shot at those overreliant on sabermetrics. Because, you know, Bill James always has to turn down managerial and GM jobs.

It's GM, manager, or bust. Senior Advisor of Baseball Operations for the Boston Red Sox? Not to mention, the same Red Sox who've seen four ALCS appearances and two championships in his six years. That old statfaggot may as well be flippin' Whoppers.

[morpheus]

First of all, what ChuckD said.  At least TRY to have your facts straight before you start making silly arguments.

If 'willing to consider mountains of evidence that indicate that Alfonso Soriano is a good baseball player' = 'overreliance on sabermetrics' then I agree wholeheartedly.  Also let's throw in that awesome argument that 'has been a general manager' = 'qualified to analyze baseball.'  Why didn't you follow that with 'shit, I bet you can't even play professional baseball!'?  That would really bolster your case.

Or, you could just admit that Alfonso Soriano is a really good baseball player, and you're just trying to look "intelligent" by posing a counter-consensus argument.  Does the fact that he's nursing a sore knee factor into your scintillating analysis of his "hustle?"  Besides, my whole argument (which you epically failed to address) was that his well-above-average offensive abilities are NOT subsumed by his fielding abilities, which was ChucktoChuck's unsupported and incorrect assertion.

We can agree he's had a bad year in LF this year, but these things tend to revert to the mean over time. And the mean is 'above league average' by a wide margin. 

[Tank]

Also, I wasn't trying to be ironic before, assmaster...

Hence your failure.

[Jon]

Considering the vast proportional gulf between Real World Chuck and Internet Chuck, I can only assume Real World Bonk posts here in-between hosting symposia on the effect of gravity on the higher mathematics of space-time.

[Bonk]

First of all, what ChuckD said.  At least TRY to have your facts straight before you start making silly arguments.

If 'willing to consider mountains of evidence that indicate that Alfonso Soriano is a good baseball player' = 'overreliance on sabermetrics' then I agree wholeheartedly.  Also let's throw in that awesome argument that 'has been a general manager' = 'qualified to analyze baseball.'  Why didn't you follow that with 'shit, I bet you can't even play professional baseball!'?  That would really bolster your case.

Or, you could just admit that Alfonso Soriano is a really good baseball player, and you're just trying to look "intelligent" by posing a counter-consensus argument.  Does the fact that he's nursing a sore knee factor into your scintillating analysis of his "hustle?"  Besides, my whole argument (which you epically failed to address) was that his well-above-average offensive abilities are NOT subsumed by his fielding abilities, which was ChucktoChuck's unsupported and incorrect assertion.

We can agree he's had a bad year in LF this year, but these things tend to revert to the mean over time. And the mean is 'above league average' by a wide margin. 

Yes, I totally agree he's a really good baseball player and his defensive shortcomings do not supercede his contributions on offense. From everything I've heard and read about the guy he works his ass off.

He's maddening on offense at times, but at the end of the season the numbers are always good. However, he drives me nuts with his inability to hit with runners on and he's been abyssmal in the playoffs, mainly because IMO there aren't any Phil Dumatraits or Tom Gorzelannys to fatten up on. He also has to have some kind of record for being picked off. And we've been over the defensive argument, and while I agree he probably won't be at .951 all season, he's getting older and his defensive "skills" are actually going to deteriorate. Even more.

Overall, I'm happy the Cubs have him. I just wish it wasn't for $17M a year until 2046. Him hitting fifth for about $9M would've been just swell. Maybe I'm harder on him because of the ridiculous salary.

Even though you took a couple of shots at me which I probably deserved, thanks for at least giving a cogent response. I'm done talking about this -- I'm not going to change anyone's mind and vice versa.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off along the way. Like I said, getting talked down to brings out the worst in me, but I still could've handled the situation better.

You're (mostly) all smart folks and I love the humor and analysis. 

[Bonk]

Considering the vast proportional gulf between Real World Chuck and Internet Chuck, I can only assume Real World Bonk posts here in-between hosting symposia on the effect of gravity on the higher mathematics of space-time.

Real Life Bonk actually has a degree in math from Wright State but didn't want to become a full-time student so he took a newspaper job in Cincinnati in 1997.

He had a kick-ass job there until the paper shut down at the end of 2007, and hasn't been able to find anything but freelance work since.

Math has always been my strength, but at 19 I didn't realize the math majors a) have limited employment opportunities with just a B.A., and b) didn't take classes that necessarily dealt with numbers. I actually struggled the most in the courses in my major.

[Philberto]

First of all, what ChuckD said.  At least TRY to have your facts straight before you start making silly arguments.

If 'willing to consider mountains of evidence that indicate that Alfonso Soriano is a good baseball player' = 'overreliance on sabermetrics' then I agree wholeheartedly.  Also let's throw in that awesome argument that 'has been a general manager' = 'qualified to analyze baseball.'  Why didn't you follow that with 'shit, I bet you can't even play professional baseball!'?  That would really bolster your case.

Or, you could just admit that Alfonso Soriano is a really good baseball player, and you're just trying to look "intelligent" by posing a counter-consensus argument.  Does the fact that he's nursing a sore knee factor into your scintillating analysis of his "hustle?"  Besides, my whole argument (which you epically failed to address) was that his well-above-average offensive abilities are NOT subsumed by his fielding abilities, which was ChucktoChuck's unsupported and incorrect assertion.

We can agree he's had a bad year in LF this year, but these things tend to revert to the mean over time. And the mean is 'above league average' by a wide margin. 

Yes, I totally agree he's a really good baseball player and his defensive shortcomings do not supercede his contributions on offense. From everything I've heard and read about the guy he works his ass off.

He's maddening on offense at times, but at the end of the season the numbers are always good. However, he drives me nuts with his inability to hit with runners on and he's been abyssmal in the playoffs, mainly because IMO there aren't any Phil Dumatraits or Tom Gorzelannys to fatten up on. He also has to have some kind of record for being picked off. And we've been over the defensive argument, and while I agree he probably won't be at .951 all season, he's getting older and his defensive "skills" are actually going to deteriorate. Even more.

Overall, I'm happy the Cubs have him. I just wish it wasn't for $17M a year until 2046. Him hitting fifth for about $9M would've been just swell. Maybe I'm harder on him because of the ridiculous salary.

Even though you took a couple of shots at me which I probably deserved, thanks for at least giving a cogent response. I'm done talking about this -- I'm not going to change anyone's mind and vice versa.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off along the way. Like I said, getting talked down to brings out the worst in me, but I still could've handled the situation better.

You're (mostly) all smart folks and I love the humor and analysis. 

I'm just here for the possible HJE

Edit: Fixed because I'm an idiot

[MidgetSellingWater]

did someone say HJE?  When does that start?

[Saul Goodman]

Obvious bump, after that inning.

[PenFoe]

I like how some people on this board give me shit all the time, but when I give it right back, people make me out to be unethical and/or stupid for disagreeing. I guess getting condescending attitude when I'm just trying to discuss something brings out the worst in me.

And RV, so fucking what if I don't like Obama? I didn't like GW either. I don't really care for any politicians. Plenty of you guys were drooling over his genitalia during and after the election.

But back to the topic:

I realize no stat is perfect, but I'm not a big fan of the all of the new stats to try to re-invent the game. Maybe if I'd stated that first you guys wouldn't have attacked me. Who am I kidding -- yeah, you would've.

So I'm immediately skeptical of any stat that tells me Soriano, who I believe suffers from mild mental retardation, is actually an above-average fielder. If there's a stat that measures things like when he didn't get an error for his stupid throw to third after not charging the ball on Thursday, or letting a ball hit three steps away from him drop for a ground-rule double, in addition to the countless other mental fuck-ups he makes during the course of a season, maybe I'll pay attention. Until then, fielding percentage and errors are still a decent of way of telling who's awesome and who sucks.

There's always intangibles, which by definition can't be measured by stats. They're why Reed Johnson can play on my team any day, and why Ronny Cedeno can go suck a horse cock.

Can we at least agree Soriano's been shitty in left this year? He's the only outfielder in baseball with four errors, and he easily has the worst fielding percentage at NINE-FIFTY-FUCKING-ONE. I agree those two stats don't tell the whole story, but they can't be dismissed, either.

I acknowledge the 19 assists in 2007 were pretty sweet, but .975 in both 2007 and 2008 is not good, no matter how you guys try to spin it. Maybe those assists in '07 canceled out the bad percentage, but not last year and certainly not this year.

So, I'm not exactly sure how these stats work, but it's apparently Runs Above Replacement, which calculates how many runs someone was worth both offensively and defensively compared to a replacement-level player at the same position.

Prior to this year, Soriano was way ahead in his Cubs tenure in the field (22.2), though he's in the red this year.

Not sure how many fag shares he creates over a replacement, but I guess if that replacement was say...Jim Edmonds, he probably creates less.

Also, should be noted that, of all Cubs, Kosuke is the highest ranked in this category for '09, yielding 18.8 RAR.

[Kermit, B.]

Jesus, Chuck, even BONK knows that Soriano is a good baseball player.

Can I be in the "cool guys needlessly piling on Bonk" club now?

[PenFoe]

needlessly piling on

Are you new here?

[Kermit, B.]

needlessly piling on

Are you new here?

I plow through the needless piling on to get to the oneupsmanship.