The 2010 Cubs Free Agent and Roster Moves Thread: SAVEENG OUR KUBBEEZ!!11

[Eli]

I'm not a statfag

I can tell.

[Pre]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

[Richard Chuggar]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

WAR?  What is it good for?  [/fork]

[CT III]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Pre, do you have a non-FAGGOT stat that can tell me which of these guys got hit in the nuts with more flyballs during the playoffs in their careers?

[Kermit IV]

How come no one pointed out that PA just posted about both the Phillies and the Pirates?

[Internet Apex]

I didn't mention it because I haven't read more than a couple lines of any post of his outside teh Hockee thread in a little over a year.

[Pre]

Pre, do you have a non-FAGGOT stat that can tell me which of these guys got hit
in the nuts with more flyballs during the playoffs in their careers?

No, hetro-stats do not look at male's junk.

I do have some stats about how hot chicks showed their
tits to Kenny Lofton in 2003.

[CubFaninHydePark]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

[PenFoe]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

For a self-professed non-stat fag, you sure sound a lot like a stat fag, even if you might have no idea what you're talking about.

"Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."

[Eli]

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

That's not how it works.

[ChuckD]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

For a self-professed non-stat fag, you sure sound a lot like a stat fag, even if you might have no idea what you're talking about.

"Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."

He doesn't know what he's talking about. WAR does not depend upon the team's win totals.

Edit: Removed and posted below.

[PenFoe]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

For a self-professed non-stat fag, you sure sound a lot like a stat fag, even if you might have no idea what you're talking about.

"Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."

He doesn't know what he's talking about. WAR does not depend upon the team's win totals.

So then he's just acting gay?

I'm so confused.

[ChuckD]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

For a self-professed non-stat fag, you sure sound a lot like a stat fag, even if you might have no idea what you're talking about.

"Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."

He doesn't know what he's talking about. WAR does not depend upon the team's win totals.

So then he's just acting gay?

I'm so confused.

Eli kind of beat me to it, but to elaborate, you convert from OBP and SLG to some form of an offensive "runs created" vaue and compare it against lg average. Same for defensive contribution. Sum to calculate runs above replacement (RAR). 10 runs per win. Divide by 10. The result is WAR.

There's a bit of leeway. I know FanGraphs uses UZR. Other people use other defensive metrics. The main idea is the same, though, and it doesn't consider the team's run or win environment.

[Yeti]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

For a self-professed non-stat fag, you sure sound a lot like a stat fag, even if you might have no idea what you're talking about.

"Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."

He doesn't know what he's talking about. WAR does not depend upon the team's win totals.

Edit: Eli kind of beat me to it, but to elaborate, you convert from OBP and SLG to some form of an offensive "runs created" vaue and compare it against lg average. Same for defensive contribution. Sum them up to calculate runs above replacement (RAR). Divide by 10. 10 runs per win. The result is WAR.

I think somehow he wanted to say that his shitty team affected his OBP and SLG. Apparently the fact that Nyjer's just a dumb morgan affected the way Bay could hit the fuck out of the ball and get on base. CFiHP, seriously. You can't win this Holliday > Bay on many levels. He's a better hitter, fielder, teammate, cocksucker, and player. Just because they got similar dollar amounts (Bay around $16mil/yr and Holliday $17mil/yr) doesn't mean their equal. Holliday is probably worth that and Bay is overpaid. Good for him, but fuck stop pulling these "SABR" stats of yours out of your lady friend's vagoda.

If you want to look at OPS, look at OPS+ which adjusts for (GASP!) park factors (And the COORS INFLATION). I don't even feel like looking up the differences they have in that, or any other stats. The point remains that Holliday is still better than Bay.

As far as your article about Bay's UZR, it is possible, and it has happened before (Teixera) that UZR misses, but it's still a very good indicator of a player's defensive prowess. That article mentions that Bay was a top player in RF last year. Would we agree that Adam Dunn is a horrible outfielder? Well, take a look at this. Even the shitty Adam Dunn had a good RF year.

Oh yea... Sydney Crosby's a fucking diving nifkin.

[R-V]

Holliday is two years younger though, and he might be better than Bay, but by "a lot?"  I don't see the wide margin in the numbers.  I'd say that Holliday is a marginal upgrade, if anything.

You would make a great GM.

For the Mets.

WAR for the last 3 years
Bay -      0.0 (not on vacation, just crappy)/2.9/3.5
Holliday - 8.0/6.3/5.7

Quality of teams has to factor in here--when Bay was with the Pirates, they were so shitty that a replacement LF wasn't going to cost the Pirates games they were already losing.  When he was with the Red Sox, there was enough surrounding talent that Bay's contributions probably didn't influence their winning percentage that strongly.

Holliday played for teams that were good enough that his contributions could matter.

And adjust for Coors inflation.

I think that the OPS splits--especially the away ones--are still the most relevant, as they measure individual performance, instead of linking value to the quality of the team for which the player played.

For a self-professed non-stat fag, you sure sound a lot like a stat fag, even if you might have no idea what you're talking about.

"Like my boy tells me: If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."

He doesn't know what he's talking about. WAR does not depend upon the team's win totals.

Edit: Eli kind of beat me to it, but to elaborate, you convert from OBP and SLG to some form of an offensive "runs created" vaue and compare it against lg average. Same for defensive contribution. Sum them up to calculate runs above replacement (RAR). Divide by 10. 10 runs per win. The result is WAR.

I think somehow he wanted to say that his shitty team affected his OBP and SLG. Apparently the fact that Nyjer's just a dumb morgan affected the way Bay could hit the fuck out of the ball and get on base. CFiHP, seriously. You can't win this Holliday > Bay on many levels. He's a better hitter, fielder, teammate, cocksucker, and player. Just because they got similar dollar amounts (Bay around $16mil/yr and Holliday $17mil/yr) doesn't mean their equal. Holliday is probably worth that and Bay is overpaid. Good for him, but fuck stop pulling these "SABR" stats of yours out of your lady friend's vagoda.

If you want to look at OPS, look at OPS+ which adjusts for (GASP!) park factors (And the COORS INFLATION). I don't even feel like looking up the differences they have in that, or any other stats. The point remains that Holliday is still better than Bay.

As far as your article about Bay's UZR, it is possible, and it has happened before (Teixera) that UZR misses, but it's still a very good indicator of a player's defensive prowess. That article mentions that Bay was a top player in RF last year. Would we agree that Adam Dunn is a horrible outfielder? Well, take a look at this. Even the shitty Adam Dunn had a good RF year.

Oh yea... Sydney Crosby's a fucking diving nifkin.

To add a BBQ glaze on top of Yeti's roast:

Bay last 3 years: 121 OPS+
Holliday last 3 years: 143 OPS+

It's really not close.