I admit it...

[Saul Goodman]

...I randomly think about these 2016 Cubs, even with the massive success they've had, and think "I really wish I could have seen Kyle Schwarber contribute to this".

He's ripped some epic farts in the clubhouse, man. Don't ever let 'em tell you Theo doesn't lean in hard for team chemistry.

[CBStew]

...I randomly think about these 2016 Cubs, even with the massive success they've had, and think "I really wish I could have seen Kyle Schwarber contribute to this".

He's ripped some epic farts in the clubhouse, man. Don't ever let 'em tell you Theo doesn't lean in hard for team chemistry.

Please repost this in the "Fuck It's Silent In Here" thread where it rightfully belongs.  Thank you in advance. 

[PenFoe]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series. 

[Quality Start Machine]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series. 

[Yeti]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series. 

PenFoe, in gif form:

[SKO]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but I am curious(and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

[Yeti]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series. 

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

[SKO]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

That, too. I don't mean anyone here is a hypocrite (I for one wasn't even really paying attention to the Cubs when the Starlin accusations happened and forgot by the time I was even watching them full time again), and if your stance on DV/rape has evolved over time and you draw a hardline stance now that you didn't 5-6 years ago or whatever, that's absolutely respectable. To me I just don't see much difference between rooting for a guy like Roethlisberger (accused, never convicted, still served a suspension) and rooting for Chapman (never even charged or convicted, served suspension). Would make sense to me to hate both equally, or I guess you're just saying it's bad to acquire DV guys after the DV rather than just tolerate it if you already have them on the roster?

[Yeti]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

That, too. I don't mean anyone here is a hypocrite (I for one wasn't even really paying attention to the Cubs when the Starlin accusations happened and forgot by the time I was even watching them full time again), and if your stance on DV/rape has evolved over time and you draw a hardline stance now that you didn't 5-6 years ago or whatever, that's absolutely respectable. To me I just don't see much difference between rooting for a guy like Roethlisberger (accused, never convicted, still served a suspension) and rooting for Chapman (never even charged or convicted, served suspension). Would make sense to me to hate both equally, or I guess you're just saying it's bad to acquire DV guys after the DV rather than just tolerate it if you already have them on the roster?

Yea, I hate banging that drum, because I know it makes me look like an apologist for Chapman, but it's interesting to see people so angry on twitter about Chapman having tweets from last season talking about how much they loved Starlin

[SKO]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

That, too. I don't mean anyone here is a hypocrite (I for one wasn't even really paying attention to the Cubs when the Starlin accusations happened and forgot by the time I was even watching them full time again), and if your stance on DV/rape has evolved over time and you draw a hardline stance now that you didn't 5-6 years ago or whatever, that's absolutely respectable. To me I just don't see much difference between rooting for a guy like Roethlisberger (accused, never convicted, still served a suspension) and rooting for Chapman (never even charged or convicted, served suspension). Would make sense to me to hate both equally, or I guess you're just saying it's bad to acquire DV guys after the DV rather than just tolerate it if you already have them on the roster?

Yea, I hate banging that drum, because I know it makes me look like an apologist for Chapman, but it's interesting to see people so angry on twitter about Chapman having tweets from last season talking about how much they loved Starlin

No I think it makes sense to point out when people might allow bias to interfere with their morality. Easy to take a more objective stance on Chapman when he wasn't on your team when it happened and it was easy to say "fuck him", as opposed to when it happens to a player already on your team and say "man I hope that isn't what happened"

[PenFoe]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

That, too. I don't mean anyone here is a hypocrite (I for one wasn't even really paying attention to the Cubs when the Starlin accusations happened and forgot by the time I was even watching them full time again), and if your stance on DV/rape has evolved over time and you draw a hardline stance now that you didn't 5-6 years ago or whatever, that's absolutely respectable. To me I just don't see much difference between rooting for a guy like Roethlisberger (accused, never convicted, still served a suspension) and rooting for Chapman (never even charged or convicted, served suspension). Would make sense to me to hate both equally, or I guess you're just saying it's bad to acquire DV guys after the DV rather than just tolerate it if you already have them on the roster?

Yea, I hate banging that drum, because I know it makes me look like an apologist for Chapman, but it's interesting to see people so angry on twitter about Chapman having tweets from last season talking about how much they loved Starlin

No I think it makes sense to point out when people might allow bias to interfere with their morality. Easy to take a more objective stance on Chapman when he wasn't on your team when it happened and it was easy to say "fuck him", as opposed to when it happens to a player already on your team and say "man I hope that isn't what happened"

Totally fair question, and it's certainly in part because the Steelers already had Roesthlisberger.  I would have supported them getting rid of him at the time (especially after the second incident since the first one is awfully fishy) but once they didn't, I just do my best to root for the team while wistfully eying other QBs (or any players) that aren't obvious scumbags.  And I'm certainly not buying my kids anything with Ben's name or number on it.

But actively going out and trading for a guy like this is an absolute no-go for me.  There's got to be a least of handful of other dominant relievers the Cubs could have gotten for this package. Surely less dominant that Chapman, but guys who would vastly improve this bullpen without Theo & Co basically announcing to the world "We just want a ring, no matter who we have to bring in to do it."

[SKO]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

That, too. I don't mean anyone here is a hypocrite (I for one wasn't even really paying attention to the Cubs when the Starlin accusations happened and forgot by the time I was even watching them full time again), and if your stance on DV/rape has evolved over time and you draw a hardline stance now that you didn't 5-6 years ago or whatever, that's absolutely respectable. To me I just don't see much difference between rooting for a guy like Roethlisberger (accused, never convicted, still served a suspension) and rooting for Chapman (never even charged or convicted, served suspension). Would make sense to me to hate both equally, or I guess you're just saying it's bad to acquire DV guys after the DV rather than just tolerate it if you already have them on the roster?

Yea, I hate banging that drum, because I know it makes me look like an apologist for Chapman, but it's interesting to see people so angry on twitter about Chapman having tweets from last season talking about how much they loved Starlin

No I think it makes sense to point out when people might allow bias to interfere with their morality. Easy to take a more objective stance on Chapman when he wasn't on your team when it happened and it was easy to say "fuck him", as opposed to when it happens to a player already on your team and say "man I hope that isn't what happened"

Totally fair question, and it's certainly in part because the Steelers already had Roesthlisberger.  I would have supported them getting rid of him at the time (especially after the second incident since the first one is awfully fishy) but once they didn't, I just do my best to root for the team while wistfully eying other QBs (or any players) that aren't obvious scumbags.  And I'm certainly not buying my kids anything with Ben's name or number on it.

But actively going out and trading for a guy like this is an absolute no-go for me.  There's got to be a least of handful of other dominant relievers the Cubs could have gotten for this package. Surely less dominant that Chapman, but guys who would vastly improve this bullpen without Theo & Co basically announcing to the world "We just want a ring, no matter who we have to bring in to do it."

Fair enough. To me that's splitting hairs. Either way a shitbag is on your team, you either suck it up and hope the team wins while actively avoiding praising or supporting him specifically, or you write the team off entirely. Whether they traded for him or simply didn't cut him makes no difference to me, if you make the stance that having an abuser on the roster is fine, you might as well get any other abusers you need to win.

[PenFoe]

I hate this trade and I hate the front office for making it.
This is not how I want the Cubs to win the World Series.  

I get having this reaction, but on the other hand (and I'm not saying this to act like you are some kind of hypocrite, I just really want to know the difference in your eyes if there is one) why do you have this reaction to Chapman and not an aversion to rooting for the Steelers and guys like Roethlisberger?

And Starlin

That, too. I don't mean anyone here is a hypocrite (I for one wasn't even really paying attention to the Cubs when the Starlin accusations happened and forgot by the time I was even watching them full time again), and if your stance on DV/rape has evolved over time and you draw a hardline stance now that you didn't 5-6 years ago or whatever, that's absolutely respectable. To me I just don't see much difference between rooting for a guy like Roethlisberger (accused, never convicted, still served a suspension) and rooting for Chapman (never even charged or convicted, served suspension). Would make sense to me to hate both equally, or I guess you're just saying it's bad to acquire DV guys after the DV rather than just tolerate it if you already have them on the roster?

Yea, I hate banging that drum, because I know it makes me look like an apologist for Chapman, but it's interesting to see people so angry on twitter about Chapman having tweets from last season talking about how much they loved Starlin

No I think it makes sense to point out when people might allow bias to interfere with their morality. Easy to take a more objective stance on Chapman when he wasn't on your team when it happened and it was easy to say "fuck him", as opposed to when it happens to a player already on your team and say "man I hope that isn't what happened"

Totally fair question, and it's certainly in part because the Steelers already had Roesthlisberger.  I would have supported them getting rid of him at the time (especially after the second incident since the first one is awfully fishy) but once they didn't, I just do my best to root for the team while wistfully eying other QBs (or any players) that aren't obvious scumbags.  And I'm certainly not buying my kids anything with Ben's name or number on it.

But actively going out and trading for a guy like this is an absolute no-go for me.  There's got to be a least of handful of other dominant relievers the Cubs could have gotten for this package. Surely less dominant that Chapman, but guys who would vastly improve this bullpen without Theo & Co basically announcing to the world "We just want a ring, no matter who we have to bring in to do it."

Fair enough. To me that's splitting hairs. Either way a shitbag is on your team, you either suck it up and hope the team wins while actively avoiding praising or supporting him specifically, or you write the team off entirely. Whether they traded for him or simply didn't cut him makes no difference to me, if you make the stance that having an abuser on the roster is fine, you might as well get any other abusers you need to win.

Make no mistake, I would drastically prefer a no-Ben Steelers team. 

Unfortunately, there are plenty of other shitheads on the team (and throughout the NFL) that would make fielding of team of "good guys" near impossible. 

The Cubs had seemed much closer to getting there, at least says guy who "knows" the players through watching them on TV and stalking them and their WAGs on Instagram.

[SKO]

Make no mistake, I would drastically prefer a no-Ben Steelers team. 

Unfortunately, there are plenty of other shitheads on the team (and throughout the NFL) that would make fielding of team of "good guys" near impossible. 

The Cubs had seemed much closer to getting there, at least says guy who "knows" the players through watching them on TV and stalking them and their WAGs on Instagram.

The casualty in all of this is the illusion that the Cubs were doing things the "right" way both from a front office standpoint and from a moral standpoint. All the fun stuff and the happy go lucky guys and the pajamas and the dance parties were fun, but at the end of the day it's still a business to them and it was probably inevitable they'd bring in a guy who shattered that illusion. Hell, statistics say there's probably already a few guys in that locker room who have laid their hands on women before. This franchise once made me root for Milton Bradley, however briefly, and I don't think Chapman could even touch him in the scumbag department.

I think what we're really sad about is losing the right to be even more smug about how awesome our team is. They're like everyone else, they're just hopefully better on the field, because they aren't better off of it.

[Saul Goodman]

I think a big part of this is Chapman's own reaction once things blew up. We don't know what happened exactly, given conflicting testimony and his girlfriend's refusal to cooperate (which, it must be stated, absolutely fits the pattern of DV).

It's that Chapman has shown no remorse for even the things we do know, which is that he shot his gun through his garage while his girlfriend was close enough to be hit by an errant shot. He apologized only for shooting his gun, and invoked the Dusty-approved excuse of being Latino and this is just how Latinos argue.

He's never even said "you know what, this was not an appropriate way to react to a disagreement with someone I care about, and it's not acceptable in any disagreement with anyone. I fell far short of the expectations of fans and the standard of conduct for an adult. I am going to work on controlling my reactions in the future and treat everyone with respect."

Nope. He's just sorry for shooting his gun and then called everyone racist for thinking there's something seriously wrong with a person who shoots up his garage because he didn't get his way in an argument with a woman. That seems to point to a whole lot more ugliness below the surface that we'd rather not be confronted with in the 9th inning of every Cubs game.