I admit it...

[Wheezer]

I ruined Christmas for a family at my school yesterday. I'm teaching 7th and 8th graders; assigned them to write an essay: should we tell children that Santa Claus is real?

Turns out one of my 7th graders still believed. So, as the day was ending, her mother approached me with her little brother, who is in 2nd grade, and said "did you tell my daughter that Santa isn't real?!" I was more than a little surprised that she'd ask me that with her younger son in tow, so I just said I didn't really think it was appropriate to talk about just now.

Still, having overhead that, their son now also is distraught, as well as my student, and I have two very vocal parents who are pissed at me.

My daughter is in 7th grade and told me that she has a classmate who still believes in Santa Claus.  She said her parents are still doing the Elf on the Shelf.  Personally, I honestly feel that this borders on child abuse.

Fuck those parents, Kurt.  They are doing their daughter no favors.  That's genuinely fucking horrible.

Oh, for G-d's sake. It was a poor choice for a topic. Jesus, it's intellectually condescending. How this even sprang up in Knut's mind is baffling to me. "Was Jesus Actually Born on Christmas?" Perhaps "Is the Exodus Story a Crock of Shit?" would be a possibility for Easter.

[Canadouche]

I ruined Christmas for a family at my school yesterday. I'm teaching 7th and 8th graders; assigned them to write an essay: should we tell children that Santa Claus is real?

Turns out one of my 7th graders still believed. So, as the day was ending, her mother approached me with her little brother, who is in 2nd grade, and said "did you tell my daughter that Santa isn't real?!" I was more than a little surprised that she'd ask me that with her younger son in tow, so I just said I didn't really think it was appropriate to talk about just now.

Still, having overhead that, their son now also is distraught, as well as my student, and I have two very vocal parents who are pissed at me.

My daughter is in 7th grade and told me that she has a classmate who still believes in Santa Claus.  She said her parents are still doing the Elf on the Shelf.  Personally, I honestly feel that this borders on child abuse.

Fuck those parents, Kurt.  They are doing their daughter no favors.  That's genuinely fucking horrible.

Oh, for G-d's sake. It was a poor choice for a topic. Jesus, it's intellectually condescending. How this even sprang up in Knut's mind is baffling to me. "Was Jesus Actually Born on Christmas?" Perhaps "Is the Exodus Story a Crock of Shit?" would be a possibility for Easter.

They're 12-14 years old. At a school with kids as young as 3. On top of being only a few years removed from when their own belief in Santa was shook, they're around literally hundreds of kids who still believe -- and some of them have no qualms with shaking the beliefs of little kids whose parents wouldn't be happy with them for having done so. Asking them to actively think about their feelings on the subject is a good thing, because it not only invites them to process those thoughts, but it also provides them with an opportunity to constructively build an argument to justify the way they feel. Who could have a problem with that?

As to your other points -- I have already taught them that Jesus wouldn't have been born in December. I have already taught them that Exodus - not to mention most of the Bible - is not to be taken literally. Not sure why that should be the focus of religious discussion at Christmas time anyway.

[Wheezer]

I ruined Christmas for a family at my school yesterday. I'm teaching 7th and 8th graders; assigned them to write an essay: should we tell children that Santa Claus is real?

Turns out one of my 7th graders still believed. So, as the day was ending, her mother approached me with her little brother, who is in 2nd grade, and said "did you tell my daughter that Santa isn't real?!" I was more than a little surprised that she'd ask me that with her younger son in tow, so I just said I didn't really think it was appropriate to talk about just now.

Still, having overhead that, their son now also is distraught, as well as my student, and I have two very vocal parents who are pissed at me.

My daughter is in 7th grade and told me that she has a classmate who still believes in Santa Claus.  She said her parents are still doing the Elf on the Shelf.  Personally, I honestly feel that this borders on child abuse.

Fuck those parents, Kurt.  They are doing their daughter no favors.  That's genuinely fucking horrible.

Oh, for G-d's sake. It was a poor choice for a topic. Jesus, it's intellectually condescending. How this even sprang up in Knut's mind is baffling to me. "Was Jesus Actually Born on Christmas?" Perhaps "Is the Exodus Story a Crock of Shit?" would be a possibility for Easter.

They're 12-14 years old. At a school with kids as young as 3. On top of being only a few years removed from when their own belief in Santa was shook, they're around literally hundreds of kids who still believe -- and some of them have no qualms with shaking the beliefs of little kids whose parents wouldn't be happy with them for having done so. Asking them to actively think about their feelings on the subject is a good thing, because it not only invites them to process those thoughts, but it also provides them with an opportunity to constructively build an argument to justify the way they feel. Who could have a problem with that?

As to your other points -- I have already taught them that Jesus wouldn't have been born in December. I have already taught them that Exodus - not to mention most of the Bible - is not to be taken literally. Not sure why that should be the focus of religious discussion at Christmas time anyway.

Should have gone for Tooth Fairy Science.

If you don't consider prior probability, you can end up doing what I call Tooth Fairy Science. You can study whether leaving the tooth in a baggie generates more Tooth Fairy money than leaving it wrapped in Kleenex. You can study the average money left for the first tooth versus the last tooth. You can correlate Tooth Fairy proceeds with parental income. You can get reliable data that are reproducible, consistent, and statistically significant. You think you have learned something about the Tooth Fairy. But you haven't. Your data has another explanation, parental behavior, that you haven't even considered. You have deceived yourself by trying to do research on something that doesn't exist.

[Saul Goodman]

I ruined Christmas for a family at my school yesterday. I'm teaching 7th and 8th graders; assigned them to write an essay: should we tell children that Santa Claus is real?

Turns out one of my 7th graders still believed. So, as the day was ending, her mother approached me with her little brother, who is in 2nd grade, and said "did you tell my daughter that Santa isn't real?!" I was more than a little surprised that she'd ask me that with her younger son in tow, so I just said I didn't really think it was appropriate to talk about just now.

Still, having overhead that, their son now also is distraught, as well as my student, and I have two very vocal parents who are pissed at me.

My daughter is in 7th grade and told me that she has a classmate who still believes in Santa Claus.  She said her parents are still doing the Elf on the Shelf.  Personally, I honestly feel that this borders on child abuse.

Fuck those parents, Kurt.  They are doing their daughter no favors.  That's genuinely fucking horrible.

Oh, for G-d's sake. It was a poor choice for a topic. Jesus, it's intellectually condescending. How this even sprang up in Knut's mind is baffling to me. "Was Jesus Actually Born on Christmas?" Perhaps "Is the Exodus Story a Crock of Shit?" would be a possibility for Easter.

They're 12-14 years old. At a school with kids as young as 3. On top of being only a few years removed from when their own belief in Santa was shook, they're around literally hundreds of kids who still believe -- and some of them have no qualms with shaking the beliefs of little kids whose parents wouldn't be happy with them for having done so. Asking them to actively think about their feelings on the subject is a good thing, because it not only invites them to process those thoughts, but it also provides them with an opportunity to constructively build an argument to justify the way they feel. Who could have a problem with that?

As to your other points -- I have already taught them that Jesus wouldn't have been born in December. I have already taught them that Exodus - not to mention most of the Bible - is not to be taken literally. Not sure why that should be the focus of religious discussion at Christmas time anyway.

I thought it was an interesting topic to give them and a good idea by Krut. Kids probably had a lot of opinions on it. Makes them reflect on topics like their own experiences, on childhood, on parenting, on philosophy, on morality, on argumentation and persuasion. Well done. Is this a public school?

[Wheezer]

Kids probably had a lot of opinions on it.

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

Makes them reflect on topics like their own experiences, on childhood, on parenting, on philosophy, on morality, on argumentation and persuasion.

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

You want to see horrible parents? Check this shit out.

[Canadouche]

I ruined Christmas for a family at my school yesterday. I'm teaching 7th and 8th graders; assigned them to write an essay: should we tell children that Santa Claus is real?

Turns out one of my 7th graders still believed. So, as the day was ending, her mother approached me with her little brother, who is in 2nd grade, and said "did you tell my daughter that Santa isn't real?!" I was more than a little surprised that she'd ask me that with her younger son in tow, so I just said I didn't really think it was appropriate to talk about just now.

Still, having overhead that, their son now also is distraught, as well as my student, and I have two very vocal parents who are pissed at me.

My daughter is in 7th grade and told me that she has a classmate who still believes in Santa Claus.  She said her parents are still doing the Elf on the Shelf.  Personally, I honestly feel that this borders on child abuse.

Fuck those parents, Kurt.  They are doing their daughter no favors.  That's genuinely fucking horrible.

Oh, for G-d's sake. It was a poor choice for a topic. Jesus, it's intellectually condescending. How this even sprang up in Knut's mind is baffling to me. "Was Jesus Actually Born on Christmas?" Perhaps "Is the Exodus Story a Crock of Shit?" would be a possibility for Easter.

They're 12-14 years old. At a school with kids as young as 3. On top of being only a few years removed from when their own belief in Santa was shook, they're around literally hundreds of kids who still believe -- and some of them have no qualms with shaking the beliefs of little kids whose parents wouldn't be happy with them for having done so. Asking them to actively think about their feelings on the subject is a good thing, because it not only invites them to process those thoughts, but it also provides them with an opportunity to constructively build an argument to justify the way they feel. Who could have a problem with that?

As to your other points -- I have already taught them that Jesus wouldn't have been born in December. I have already taught them that Exodus - not to mention most of the Bible - is not to be taken literally. Not sure why that should be the focus of religious discussion at Christmas time anyway.

I thought it was an interesting topic to give them and a good idea by Krut. Kids probably had a lot of opinions on it. Makes them reflect on topics like their own experiences, on childhood, on parenting, on philosophy, on morality, on argumentation and persuasion. Well done. Is this a public school?

Catholic.

[Canadouche]

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

I teach the 7th and 8th grades (I did mention they ranged from ages 12 to 14).

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

It backfired twice and I'll be doing the same activity next year, if I'm teaching the same grade. (Which I probably will be.) Next week I'm going to be talking about the Decemberists' tune 12-17-12 which is about the Sandy Hook massacre. I'll remind my students that nobody is promised a long life and that we can lose loved ones at any time. In my class is a student whose father was murdered two Augusts ago, and another student whose mother was murdered last May. A third student in my class is losing her mother to breast cancer. I know these kids pretty well, and they know they can take a break/go for a walk if the subject matter hits too close to home, but there's always the risk that the conversation might make someone in the class upset. So, should I not talk about something important because it might "backfire" for one of my students?

In a room of 30 kids, there's always going to be someone who doesn't want to hear it/participate. There's always the risk, as unlikely as it may be, that a 12 year old still believes in Santa. I don't think it's child abuse to perpetuate that, but I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors by ensuring that they are the very last ones to learn the truth. Kids can be pretty cruel and excluding even without an excuse to do so.

[Saul Goodman]

Kids probably had a lot of opinions on it.

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

Makes them reflect on topics like their own experiences, on childhood, on parenting, on philosophy, on morality, on argumentation and persuasion.

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

You want to see horrible parents? Check this shit out.

Let's see your alternative lesson plan to show Kurt the horrible error of his ways.

[CBStew]

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

I teach the 7th and 8th grades (I did mention they ranged from ages 12 to 14).

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

It backfired twice and I'll be doing the same activity next year, if I'm teaching the same grade. (Which I probably will be.) Next week I'm going to be talking about the Decemberists' tune 12-17-12 which is about the Sandy Hook massacre. I'll remind my students that nobody is promised a long life and that we can lose loved ones at any time. In my class is a student whose father was murdered two Augusts ago, and another student whose mother was murdered last May. A third student in my class is losing her mother to breast cancer. I know these kids pretty well, and they know they can take a break/go for a walk if the subject matter hits too close to home, but there's always the risk that the conversation might make someone in the class upset. So, should I not talk about something important because it might "backfire" for one of my students?

In a room of 30 kids, there's always going to be someone who doesn't want to hear it/participate. There's always the risk, as unlikely as it may be, that a 12 year old still believes in Santa. I don't think it's child abuse to perpetuate that, but I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors by ensuring that they are the very last ones to learn the truth. Kids can be pretty cruel and excluding even without an excuse to do so.

It may not be child abuse to encourage a 12 year old to believe in fairy tales, but these parents don't want their children to become rational adults.  That is bad parenting.  A parent's function is to help the child to become a self sustaining adult.

[Tonker]

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

I teach the 7th and 8th grades (I did mention they ranged from ages 12 to 14).

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

It backfired twice and I'll be doing the same activity next year, if I'm teaching the same grade. (Which I probably will be.) Next week I'm going to be talking about the Decemberists' tune 12-17-12 which is about the Sandy Hook massacre. I'll remind my students that nobody is promised a long life and that we can lose loved ones at any time. In my class is a student whose father was murdered two Augusts ago, and another student whose mother was murdered last May. A third student in my class is losing her mother to breast cancer. I know these kids pretty well, and they know they can take a break/go for a walk if the subject matter hits too close to home, but there's always the risk that the conversation might make someone in the class upset. So, should I not talk about something important because it might "backfire" for one of my students?

In a room of 30 kids, there's always going to be someone who doesn't want to hear it/participate. There's always the risk, as unlikely as it may be, that a 12 year old still believes in Santa. I don't think it's child abuse to perpetuate that, but I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors by ensuring that they are the very last ones to learn the truth. Kids can be pretty cruel and excluding even without an excuse to do so.

It may not be child abuse to encourage a 12 year old to believe in fairy tales, but these parents don't want their children to become rational adults.  That is bad parenting.  A parent's function is to help the child to become a self sustaining adult.

Our ten-year-old still fervently believes in Father Christmas.  I guess this is the last year, but if it's not, then I'm certainly not going to spoil it for her next year, or indeed the year after.  She's well on the way to becoming a self-sustaining adult regardless of whether she continues to believe in fairy tales for an arbitrary number of days more.

That said, should somebody choose to disabuse her tomorrow, then at this point I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it.  We had a good run.

[Canadouche]

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

I teach the 7th and 8th grades (I did mention they ranged from ages 12 to 14).

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

It backfired twice and I'll be doing the same activity next year, if I'm teaching the same grade. (Which I probably will be.) Next week I'm going to be talking about the Decemberists' tune 12-17-12 which is about the Sandy Hook massacre. I'll remind my students that nobody is promised a long life and that we can lose loved ones at any time. In my class is a student whose father was murdered two Augusts ago, and another student whose mother was murdered last May. A third student in my class is losing her mother to breast cancer. I know these kids pretty well, and they know they can take a break/go for a walk if the subject matter hits too close to home, but there's always the risk that the conversation might make someone in the class upset. So, should I not talk about something important because it might "backfire" for one of my students?

In a room of 30 kids, there's always going to be someone who doesn't want to hear it/participate. There's always the risk, as unlikely as it may be, that a 12 year old still believes in Santa. I don't think it's child abuse to perpetuate that, but I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors by ensuring that they are the very last ones to learn the truth. Kids can be pretty cruel and excluding even without an excuse to do so.

It may not be child abuse to encourage a 12 year old to believe in fairy tales, but these parents don't want their children to become rational adults.  That is bad parenting.  A parent's function is to help the child to become a self sustaining adult.

Our ten-year-old still fervently believes in Father Christmas.  I guess this is the last year, but if it's not, then I'm certainly not going to spoil it for her next year, or indeed the year after.  She's well on the way to becoming a self-sustaining adult regardless of whether she continues to believe in fairy tales for an arbitrary number of days more.

That said, should somebody choose to disabuse her tomorrow, then at this point I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it.  We had a good run.

Pretty sure I believed until I was around 10. I might have even made it to 11, for what it's worth.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I was one of the very last holdouts and I was in 4th grade.  I saw another dude being mocked on the playground for still believing in Santa Claus and I kept my mouth shut and let him take the abuse by himself.  Real heroic of me, I know.  Around the same time, I saw a big ole' garbage bag full of presents in our frunchroom that were from "Santa" and that certainly made me suspicious.  Then, shortly afterward, my older brother was on the phone with a friend and he said "Yeah, my mom's making me go shopping for Santa presents".  He spotted me in the corner, put the phone down and said, "You knew, right, Mike?"  And I nodded my head, and was like "Of course I knew hahaha" but until that point I was not 100% into disbelieving.  And that was 4th grade and, like I said, I was one of the last in my class who still believed.

My daughter got through 4th grade and I was suspicious that she was figuring it out and was worried that she'd ruin it for her little brother. When she finally told me, after Christmas, that she didn't believe, I advised her to not to tell her brother if for no other reason than she would continue to get Santa presents as long he still believed and she kept up the charade.  She found the logic to be sound.  The nice thing is she's enthusiastic about his delusion to the point where she loves hiding the elf--which is a great improvement over her mom and dad habitually forgetting to put it in a  new spot every day.  However, her brother is now in 2nd grade and he seems like a pretty sharp kid and I'm thinking he might stop believing by next year. 

One more thing, my sister has a boy who went into 5th grade still believing.  At that point my sister and her daughters (who were 3 and 4 years older than him) basically had to sit him down and break it to him; my sister's reasoning being that the kid was going to get mercilessly mocked if he went into 6th grade still believing.  I feel this is the best approach if your kid is too thick to figure this out him/herself by the time (s)he's 11 (especially for boys I imagine).  Okay, maybe it's not child abuse, but for the life of me I don't see what favors a parent is doing their child to not only not tell them by that point, but to actually foster the illusion.

[Bort]

When I was 6 we moved to a neighborhood with all older kids (9-12 years old). That was it for me. They're also the reason I started swearing like a South Park kid by 1983.

[thehawk]

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

I teach the 7th and 8th grades (I did mention they ranged from ages 12 to 14).

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

It backfired twice and I'll be doing the same activity next year, if I'm teaching the same grade. (Which I probably will be.) Next week I'm going to be talking about the Decemberists' tune 12-17-12 which is about the Sandy Hook massacre. I'll remind my students that nobody is promised a long life and that we can lose loved ones at any time. In my class is a student whose father was murdered two Augusts ago, and another student whose mother was murdered last May. A third student in my class is losing her mother to breast cancer. I know these kids pretty well, and they know they can take a break/go for a walk if the subject matter hits too close to home, but there's always the risk that the conversation might make someone in the class upset. So, should I not talk about something important because it might "backfire" for one of my students?

In a room of 30 kids, there's always going to be someone who doesn't want to hear it/participate. There's always the risk, as unlikely as it may be, that a 12 year old still believes in Santa. I don't think it's child abuse to perpetuate that, but I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors by ensuring that they are the very last ones to learn the truth. Kids can be pretty cruel and excluding even without an excuse to do so.

It may not be child abuse to encourage a 12 year old to believe in fairy tales, but these parents don't want their children to become rational adults.  That is bad parenting.  A parent's function is to help the child to become a self sustaining adult.

Our ten-year-old still fervently believes in Father Christmas.  I guess this is the last year, but if it's not, then I'm certainly not going to spoil it for her next year, or indeed the year after.  She's well on the way to becoming a self-sustaining adult regardless of whether she continues to believe in fairy tales for an arbitrary number of days more.

That said, should somebody choose to disabuse her tomorrow, then at this point I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it.  We had a good run.

Pretty sure I believed until I was around 10. I might have even made it to 11, for what it's worth.

Wait a minute, are you guys saying that Santa isn't real?

[Canadouche]

Well, the graph of the grades hasn't been presented yet.

I teach the 7th and 8th grades (I did mention they ranged from ages 12 to 14).

Philosophy? Morality? I swear to G-d, I thought I had seen the dumbest fucking comment possible (elsewhere), but now this. "Well done"? The whole point is that it backfired. Twice. And then there's the "Fuck those parents, Kurt. They are doing their daughter no favors. That's genuinely fucking horrible." and "borders on child abuse" crap.

It backfired twice and I'll be doing the same activity next year, if I'm teaching the same grade. (Which I probably will be.) Next week I'm going to be talking about the Decemberists' tune 12-17-12 which is about the Sandy Hook massacre. I'll remind my students that nobody is promised a long life and that we can lose loved ones at any time. In my class is a student whose father was murdered two Augusts ago, and another student whose mother was murdered last May. A third student in my class is losing her mother to breast cancer. I know these kids pretty well, and they know they can take a break/go for a walk if the subject matter hits too close to home, but there's always the risk that the conversation might make someone in the class upset. So, should I not talk about something important because it might "backfire" for one of my students?

In a room of 30 kids, there's always going to be someone who doesn't want to hear it/participate. There's always the risk, as unlikely as it may be, that a 12 year old still believes in Santa. I don't think it's child abuse to perpetuate that, but I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors by ensuring that they are the very last ones to learn the truth. Kids can be pretty cruel and excluding even without an excuse to do so.

It may not be child abuse to encourage a 12 year old to believe in fairy tales, but these parents don't want their children to become rational adults.  That is bad parenting.  A parent's function is to help the child to become a self sustaining adult.

Our ten-year-old still fervently believes in Father Christmas.  I guess this is the last year, but if it's not, then I'm certainly not going to spoil it for her next year, or indeed the year after.  She's well on the way to becoming a self-sustaining adult regardless of whether she continues to believe in fairy tales for an arbitrary number of days more.

That said, should somebody choose to disabuse her tomorrow, then at this point I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it.  We had a good run.

Pretty sure I believed until I was around 10. I might have even made it to 11, for what it's worth.

Wait a minute, are you guys saying that Santa isn't real?

Bro, Santa crashed his sleigh into a tree in 1983 and he fuckin' died, bro.