Lost: The Final Boner

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

[Richard Chuggar]

What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

Oh, Georgie Porgie!

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

What did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either.  

In the changed timeline, if the Dharma Initiative is blown to kingdom come by mini-Jughead, The Numbers are probably never even transmitted from the island for Leonard to hear in the first place, in which case Hurley would have never been introduced to them.

[R-V]

What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

Terrible SeinFAIL on my part. I will now read Weebs' most recent post as punishment.

[Weebs]

What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

Terrible SeinFAIL on my part. I will now read Weebs' most recent post as punishment.

It's going to blow your mindgrapes.

[Waco Kid]

What did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either.  

In the changed timeline, if the Dharma Initiative is blown to kingdom come by mini-Jughead, The Numbers are probably never even transmitted from the island for Leonard to hear in the first place, in which case Hurley would have never been introduced to them.

So Hurley's winning lottery numbers would not be the island numbers leading to the lack of bad luck for Hurley.

[Weebs]

What did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either.  

In the changed timeline, if the Dharma Initiative is blown to kingdom come by mini-Jughead, The Numbers are probably never even transmitted from the island for Leonard to hear in the first place, in which case Hurley would have never been introduced to them.

So Hurley's winning lottery numbers would not be the island numbers leading to the lack of bad luck for Hurley.

Thanks for the clarification, Judge Reinhold.

[Weebs]

DPD

I don't think Sayid is Jacob.  If Essau was able to become Locke without actually possessing his body, shouldn't Jacob be able to do the same?  I'm guessing Sayid saw the alternate reality, just like Juliet did before she died, and he'll be the one who explains what the hell is going on with all of that.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

BTW... Any of you Pauls catch of a glimpse of the book they found on the dead guy in the temple?

I only caught a quick glimpse of the author name myself (on my lo-def, Tivo-less TV), and maybe this is just wishful Desipio thinking, but to my eyes it looked for all the world like...

(And this would seem like an appropriate enough title to easter egg us with, though lots of his stuff would seem appropriate.)

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Apparently it was "Fear and Trembling" instead...



And a French edition at that.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

So, a question from Pen in the SBox about Not-Locke's line about wanting to go home got me thinking about fallen angels (cast down from Heaven, maybe desiring to return).

I read a bit on Lucifer, then came upon Samael...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael

Samael (Hebrew: סמאל‎) (also Sammael) is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser, seducer and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil. It is said that he was the guardian angel of Esau and a patron of the sinful empire of Rome.

Also called Sammael and Samil, he is considered in legend both a member of the heavenly host (with often grim and destructive duties) and a fallen angel, equatable with Satan and the chief of the evil spirits. One of Samael's greatest roles in Jewish lore is that of the Angel of Death. In this capacity he is a fallen angel but nevertheless remains one of the Lord's servants. As a good angel, Samael supposedly resides in the seventh heaven, although he is declared to be the chief angel of the fifth heaven.

...

In Jewish lore, Samael is said to be the Angel of Death, the chief ruler of the Fifth Heaven and one of the seven regents of the world served by two million angels; he resides in the Seventh Heaven. Yalkut I, 110 of the Talmud speaks of Samael as Esau's guardian angel. In Sotah 10b, Samael is Esau's guardian angel, and in the Sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, he is charged with being the one who tempted Eve, then seduced and impregnated her with Cain. Though some sources identify Gadreel as the angel that seduced Eve, other Hebrew scholars say that it was Samael who tempted Eve in the guise of the Serpent. Samael is also sometimes identified as being the angelic antagonist who wrestled with Jacob, and also the angel who held back the arm of Abraham as he was about to sacrifice his son.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=106&letter=S

Prince of the demons, and an important figure both in Talmudic and in post-Talmudic literature, where he appears as accuser, seducer, and destroyer. His name is etymologized as = "the venom of God," since he is identical with the angel of death (Targ. Yer. to Gen. iii. 6; see also Death, Angel of), who slays men with a drop of poison ('Ab. Zarah 20b; Kohut, "Angelologie und Dämonologie," pp. 69, 71). It is possible, however, that the name is derived from that of the Syrian god Shemal (Bousset, "Religion," p. 242).

...

All these descriptions of Samael show that he was regarded simply as the principle of evil that brought upon Israel and Judah every misfortune that befell them. Even at the creation of the world he was Lucifer, who ever sought evil and who began his malignant activity with Adam. His opponent is Michael, who represents the beneficent principle, and who frequently comes into conflict with him (comp. Jew. Encyc. viii. 536 et seq.; Lucken, "Michael," pp. 22 et seq.).

More: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_0_17378.html

As the angel who wrestles Jacob, he represents Israel's celestial adversary...

Remember that the struggle between Jacob and his adversary occurred on two levels: the physical and the spiritual, Esau in this world and Samael in the celestial regions.

As the angel that tries to stay Abraham's hand, he offers temptation against the command of God...

Among the meaningful references to Samael in the classical layer of midrashic literature, his role in the story of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham should be emphasized. According to the Bereshit Rabba text it was Samael who tried to influence Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac, and thus to transgress God's command.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

The connection to the sacrifice of Isaac is interesting when we look at that Kierkegaard book...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Trembling

Fear and Trembling presents a highly original and provocative interpretation of the Binding of Isaac story as told in Genesis Chapter 22, and uses the story as an occasion to discuss fundamental issues in moral philosophy and the philosophy of religion, such as the nature of God and faith, faith's relationship with ethics and morality, and the difficulty of being authentically religious.

...

The work begins with a meditation on the faith of Abraham when he was commanded by God to sacrifice his son Isaac.[3] Silentio gives four alternative re-tellings in which Abraham fails the test of his faith and contrasts them with his own interpretation of the story of Abraham and the faith therein demonstrated. Silentio professes to admire Abraham's faith, but he is utterly incapable of comprehending it.

...

For Kierkegaard, infinite resignation is easy, but faith is founded in the belief in the absurd. The absurd is that which is contradictory to reason itself. For Abraham, this faith in the absurd manifests itself in Abraham's belief that he would kill his only son but he would nevertheless receive him again in his lifetime. Silentio's opinion is that what separates Abraham from being a killer is his faith. (In the end of the Genesis 22 story, an angel stops Abraham at the last moment. A ram appears which Abraham takes as a sign from God, and he sacrifices the ram instead of Isaac.)

http://www.ccel.org/k/kierkegaard/selections/trembling.htm

If Abraham had doubted, when standing on Mount Moriah; if he had looked about him in perplexity; if he had accidentally discovered the ram before drawing his knife; if God had permitted him to sacrifice it instead of Isaac—then would he have returned home, and all would have been as before, he would have had Sarah and would have kept Isaac; and yet how different all would have been!

Infinite resignation is the last stage which goes before faith, so that every one who has not made the movement of infinite resignation cannot have faith...

So sayeth the original Paul.

[MAD]

I expected you nerdlingers to have stretched this thread to at least 10 pages by now.

I'm disappointed in all of you.

[PenFoe]

So, a question from Pen in the SBox about Not-Locke's line about wanting to go home got me thinking about fallen angels (cast down from Heaven, maybe desiring to return).

I read a bit on Lucifer, then came upon Samael...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael

Samael (Hebrew: סמאל‎) (also Sammael) is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser, seducer and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil. It is said that he was the guardian angel of Esau and a patron of the sinful empire of Rome.

Also called Sammael and Samil, he is considered in legend both a member of the heavenly host (with often grim and destructive duties) and a fallen angel, equatable with Satan and the chief of the evil spirits. One of Samael's greatest roles in Jewish lore is that of the Angel of Death. In this capacity he is a fallen angel but nevertheless remains one of the Lord's servants. As a good angel, Samael supposedly resides in the seventh heaven, although he is declared to be the chief angel of the fifth heaven.

...

In Jewish lore, Samael is said to be the Angel of Death, the chief ruler of the Fifth Heaven and one of the seven regents of the world served by two million angels; he resides in the Seventh Heaven. Yalkut I, 110 of the Talmud speaks of Samael as Esau's guardian angel. In Sotah 10b, Samael is Esau's guardian angel, and in the Sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, he is charged with being the one who tempted Eve, then seduced and impregnated her with Cain. Though some sources identify Gadreel as the angel that seduced Eve, other Hebrew scholars say that it was Samael who tempted Eve in the guise of the Serpent. Samael is also sometimes identified as being the angelic antagonist who wrestled with Jacob, and also the angel who held back the arm of Abraham as he was about to sacrifice his son.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=106&letter=S

Prince of the demons, and an important figure both in Talmudic and in post-Talmudic literature, where he appears as accuser, seducer, and destroyer. His name is etymologized as = "the venom of God," since he is identical with the angel of death (Targ. Yer. to Gen. iii. 6; see also Death, Angel of), who slays men with a drop of poison ('Ab. Zarah 20b; Kohut, "Angelologie und Dämonologie," pp. 69, 71). It is possible, however, that the name is derived from that of the Syrian god Shemal (Bousset, "Religion," p. 242).

...

All these descriptions of Samael show that he was regarded simply as the principle of evil that brought upon Israel and Judah every misfortune that befell them. Even at the creation of the world he was Lucifer, who ever sought evil and who began his malignant activity with Adam. His opponent is Michael, who represents the beneficent principle, and who frequently comes into conflict with him (comp. Jew. Encyc. viii. 536 et seq.; Lucken, "Michael," pp. 22 et seq.).

More: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_0_17378.html

As the angel who wrestles Jacob, he represents Israel's celestial adversary...

Remember that the struggle between Jacob and his adversary occurred on two levels: the physical and the spiritual, Esau in this world and Samael in the celestial regions.

As the angel that tries to stay Abraham's hand, he offers temptation against the command of God...

Among the meaningful references to Samael in the classical layer of midrashic literature, his role in the story of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham should be emphasized. According to the Bereshit Rabba text it was Samael who tried to influence Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac, and thus to transgress God's command.

1. All of that is badass, and this is my new favorite theory.
2. If they were going to infiltrate the body of any one character to pass for a Jew, Ben is a better choice than Locke.