Lost: The Final Boner

[Weebs]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.

I'm wondering if setting off the bomb didn't just affect the characters from that point on, but rather from the beginning of the whole Jacob/Smokie war.  Evil-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob was the one pulling all the strings, moving him (and the rest of the Losties) closer and closer to the island.  If he was never there to bring them to the island, then naturally everything would be different for the characters.  We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).  On the other hand, he didn't touch Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin/Sun, and I believe Sayid, until later on, which would explain why their Alternate timelines seem pretty similar to the originals, with the exception of Hurley.

[Richard Chuggar]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.

I'm wondering if setting off the bomb didn't just affect the characters from that point on, but rather from the beginning of the whole Jacob/Smokie war.  Evil-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob was the one pulling all the strings, moving him (and the rest of the Losties) closer and closer to the island.  If he was never there to bring them to the island, then naturally everything would be different for the characters.  We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).  On the other hand, he didn't touch Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin/Sun, and I believe Sayid, until later on, which would explain why their Alternate timelines seem pretty similar to the originals, with the exception of Hurley.

He didn't touch Hurley until after they were already rescued as the Oceanic 6. 
It could explain why he has good luck b/c he didn't win teh lotto off of the "cursed" numbers.

Maybe b/c of the bomb going off, Jack was the real Candidate b/c he got rid of the island?

[Weebs]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.

I'm wondering if setting off the bomb didn't just affect the characters from that point on, but rather from the beginning of the whole Jacob/Smokie war.  Evil-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob was the one pulling all the strings, moving him (and the rest of the Losties) closer and closer to the island.  If he was never there to bring them to the island, then naturally everything would be different for the characters.  We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).  On the other hand, he didn't touch Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin/Sun, and I believe Sayid, until later on, which would explain why their Alternate timelines seem pretty similar to the originals, with the exception of Hurley.

He didn't touch Hurley until after they were already rescued as the Oceanic 6. 
It could explain why he has good luck b/c he didn't win teh lotto off of the "cursed" numbers.

Maybe b/c of the bomb going off, Jack was the real Candidate b/c he got rid of the island?

The only thing that doesn't make sense about that is Hurley was a Candidate, but he was never influenced by Jacob, unless it simply hasn't been shown yet or we're supposed to assume that the numbers were how he was brought to the island, instead of Jacob touching him.

[PenFoe]

Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

No kidding.

(They could still twist it and make Satan good, of course.)

All in all, a pretty meh episode. I honestly found the off-island stuff way better than the on-island.

Granted, Ben's eulogy was hilarious (as was Lapidus' reaction) and we got a pretty solid reveal, but fuck... even Sawyer came off as a big fucking dope tonight.

So TDubbs was wrong?  Shocking.

One man's opinion.

Pen will probably agree, too, but he doesn't count anyways.

Actually, I won't.
Thought it was a great episode.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

I'm more interested in what he was saying.

When he said, "you can't kill him," was he talking about Sawyer?

Jacob and his replacement, the guardians of whatever it is that the island is or represents, seem to be the only thing keeping NotLocke from being released from his "trap" and "going home." NotLocke's end game (for getting "home"), then, would be to kill all of the possible replacements. The temple folk and Richard, presumably, would be trying to keep this from happening.

We already knew he couldn't himself kill Jacob. And, if he couldn't kill Jacob, perhaps he can't kill Jacob's replacement either. Or maybe even any of his potential replacements. And, if this is the case, he'd have to get someone else to do that dirty work for him, too.

I think, at the very least, this is where Sawyer fits into his plans at the moment.

He told Sawyer that Jacob would have come to him at a point in his life where he was angry and vulnerable. And that Jacob just pulled his strings while making him believe he was acting of his free will.

This (dramatic irony!) is obviously exactly what NotLocke himself is doing to Sawyer in 2007 (and what he previously did to Ben). He's pressing on Sawyer's anger and his resentment of the island, and it seems he's pressing it against the rest of the Losties.

Is he trying to manipulate them into killing each other for him?

Where would Claire, Christian and Sayid fit into this? Has Claire already been "recruited" by NotLocke or is she a freelancer like Rousseau was?

What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

Finally, of course... Who's the new Jacob?

Locke? His name got crossed off, but I kind of hope that was somehow premature. I'd love it if it turned out that he wasn't a total fucking dupe all the way to the end.

Jack? This strikes me as the most obvious, particularly given his latter-day conversion to Locke-like faith in the island, but I really, really fucking hope it's not the case. God, I hate that guy.

Sawyer? That would be kind of bad ass, and would probably require a dramatic come-to-Jesus moment of sorts.

Sayid? He's already come back from the dead, but the Temple folk don't seem too keen on him.

Sun/Jin? Boring.

Hurley? The darkhorse, dude.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

[Weebs]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

[PenFoe]

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I thought this too, so somehow in the parallel universe Locke is still paralyzed, but not b/c of anything to do with his Dad.
Which seems quite confusing.

Also, on a separate note, if Fake Locke is to be believed, why was Jacob so intent on finding a replacement to guard the island?
Seems like he had a pretty sweet gig of his own, not sure why he'd want to pass the torch.

I still hope Desmond comes back to the Island somehow, he's an infinitely better character than most of these remaining dopes.

[Yeti]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

[PenFoe]

Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

Magic Box?

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

I'm not suggesting that we necessarily see them again. I'm just wondering which side they were pulling strings for.

I got to wondering about this because I was thinking about angels, Lucifer and the like in the wake of last night's episode and came to think of Matthew Abaddon, who worked for Widmore.

Abaddon is a "place of destruction" associated with the realm of the dead.

In Revelation in particular, though, Abaddon is the name of the angel of the Abyss, the destroying angel and the king of locusts that overtake the earth to torture men.

(Satan is later cast down into the Abyss, where he is imprisoned [trapped?] for a thousand years during which Christ reigns over the Earth. After the thousand years, he's released from his imprisonment and wages war against the people of God.)

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

That was the original timeline, though, right? We're talking about what changed in the alternate timeline.

[Weebs]

We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

That was the original timeline, though, right? We're talking about what changed in the alternate timeline.

I was actually referring to the original one.  I was wondering if it was ever explained how Cooper got to the island.

[Slaky]

I'm really going to be disappointed if this turns out to be one long allegory.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

I'm really going to be disappointed if this turns out to be one long allegory.

I think it's the exact opposite of that.

I think it's taking stuff that's normally used allegorically (struggles between gods, angels, devils, whatever) and making it literal.