Lost: The Final Boner

[Weebs]

Jacob wants people dead?  Smokey's been doing all the killing.  And to protect The Light?  Isn't that all in Smokey now?  When MIB floated in, the light went out, didn't it?

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

Smokey has killed people, but has he directly killed any Candidates?

I don't think the Light went out when Smokey floated in. I'll have to rewatch that.

It didn't necessarily go out, but the water inside the cave turned from golden and bright to cloudy and black.  I'm guessing Smokey was "corrupting" the goodness in the world, although it seems to me that Jacob and his bitch of a mom are the evil ones, selfishly trying to keep anybody else from having fun on the island.

He can't kill the Candidates.  He would like to obviously.

I would have liked for them to have shown where Jacob and MIB's "mother" came from.  She was just this magical lady on the island already with these powers? 

I'm sure Thrill will offer up the biblical references sometime soon. Or maybe we'll just have to wait for the mother's flashback episode. I feel like them explaining Jacob/Smokey's abilities by having their not-mother grant them magical powers and using The Light was the LOST equivalent of midichlorians.

I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

[R-V]

This is pretty much where I'm at on this episode:

Is it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

On the other hand, if what you want most for the last few hours of Lost is to complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom you've been invested in for six years (as opposed to ancient, pre-psychological, quasi-divine figures you met at the end of last season), then you may have, as I did, spent too much of "Across the Sea" checking your watch, waiting for a scenery switch, or—and Lost does not often make me do this—rolling your eyes.

I'm enjoying writing about "Across the Sea," and its mythological themes, more than I actually enjoyed watching the episode.

[Waco Kid]

This is pretty much where I'm at on this episode:

[quote]Is it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

On the other hand, if what you want most for the last few hours of Lost is to complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom you've been invested in for six years (as opposed to ancient, pre-psychological, quasi-divine figures you met at the end of last season), then you may have, as I did, spent too much of "Across the Sea" checking your watch, waiting for a scenery switch, or—and Lost does not often make me do this—rolling your eyes.

I'm enjoying writing about "Across the Sea," and its mythological themes, more than I actually enjoyed watching the episode.

Although, if we didn't get an episode like this, that at least answered some questions, people would be bitching about how questions about Jacob & the MIB were never answered.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

I'm fuzzy on the whole Ben-Jacob thing.  Ben never saw Jacob, but went to the cabin which was surrounded by dirt which we are led to believe Smokey can't get past, so Smokey can't get out of the cabin, but did somehow.

Did Jacob manipulate Ben to kill or did Smokey?

[Waco Kid]

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

I'm fuzzy on the whole Ben-Jacob thing.  Ben never saw Jacob, but went to the cabin which was surrounded by dirt which we are led to believe Smokey can't get past, so Smokey can't get out of the cabin, but did somehow.

Did Jacob manipulate Ben to kill or did Smokey?

Based on his non enthusiasm for wanting the job and it appearing , through his mother's relief in dying, that it was pretty thankless, I would say it is a strong possibility.

[PenPho]

I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

Okay, some of THIS.

Because really, Jacob did kill his brother by tossing him into the light.

So really, the rules are there, but they can be bent and even broken if needed.

[R-V]

I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

Okay, some of THIS.

Because really, Jacob did kill his brother by tossing him into the light.

So really, the rules are there, but they can be bent and even broken if needed.

Depends on your definition of kill. Brother's body is clearly dead. But his soul is still alive and kicking. Instead of a human body to carry him around, he's got a pillar of smoke. I believe MIB said at one point of Jacob "he took away my humanity."

[PenPho]

I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

Okay, some of THIS.

Because really, Jacob did kill his brother by tossing him into the light.

So really, the rules are there, but they can be bent and even broken if needed.

Depends on your definition of kill. Brother's body is clearly dead. But his soul is still alive and kicking. Instead of a human body to carry him around, he's got a pillar of smoke. I believe MIB said at one point of Jacob "he took away my humanity."

Well, either way...he clearly took the rules to be rather flexible.

[R-V]

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

I'm fuzzy on the whole Ben-Jacob thing.  Ben never saw Jacob, but went to the cabin which was surrounded by dirt which we are led to believe Smokey can't get past, so Smokey can't get out of the cabin, but did somehow.

Did Jacob manipulate Ben to kill or did Smokey?

Based on his non enthusiasm for wanting the job and it appearing , through his mother's relief in dying, that it was pretty thankless, I would say it is a strong possibility.

Didn't Ben admit at some point that he took Locke to the cabin as a ruse? He was putting on a show for Locke to make Locke think that Ben was special. What Ben wasn't expecting, was that Locke would actually see something in the cabin.

As for the cabin itself, when Ilana and her goons went there at the end of last season, here's what hai:

ILANA: We're here.

BRAM: Look at the ash!

ILANA: Wait here.

Bram was referring to the fact that the circle of ash was broken.

BRAM: What happened?

ILANA: He isn't there, hasn't been in a long time. Someone else has been using it. [Shouting to her team] Burn it!

I think the circle of ash was meant to keep Smokey OUT of the cabin (not sure why). At some point, the ash was broken, and Smokey used the cabin to tell Locke to move the Island. All part of his easy 58 step plan to kill Jacob.

LOCKE: Are you Jacob?

MAN: No. But I can speak on his behalf.

LOCKE: Well, who are you?

MAN: I'm Christian.

[Kermit IV]

This is pretty much where I'm at on this episode:

Is it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

On the other hand, if what you want most for the last few hours of Lost is to complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom you've been invested in for six years (as opposed to ancient, pre-psychological, quasi-divine figures you met at the end of last season), then you may have, as I did, spent too much of "Across the Sea" checking your watch, waiting for a scenery switch, or—and Lost does not often make me do this—rolling your eyes.

I'm enjoying writing about "Across the Sea," and its mythological themes, more than I actually enjoyed watching the episode.

All of THIS.  For the first time in the series, I declare that Tuesday's episode sucked.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

All of THIS.  For the first time in the series, I declare that Tuesday's episode sucked.

You must have repressed your memory of the Nikki and Paulo episode.

Beyond that...

Yeah, this episode was cheesy. And it was pretty short on action. And i thought Allison Janney and those kids were fucking awful.

It was far from my favorite episode. But I feel like it was necessary.

That's why I think this is kind of dumb:

Is it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

This episode was not about checking off boxes on a Gittles Laundry List.

It was about the story behind the conflict between Jacob and Smokey. It was showing us Smokey's reason for wanting to leave—showing us who he lost that he had loved.

And it was about the Light—the central fucking mystery of the island: the mysterious "something" behind all the healing, all the time travel, all the moving of the island and all the crazy phenomena Dharma was investigating.

Sure... The Light seems to lie somewhere between being a big, glowing MacGuffin that we don't actually care about and a vague, all-encompassing magical thing like The Force.

And the exact nature of it is probably completely unimportant (which, I'd note, would make it the exact opposite of "midichlorians," Weebs).

But it was still necessary that it was addressed in some fashion.

I mean, it's the very thing that's driven the whole shebang. The thing that set off the chain of events that brought Flight 815 to the island in the first place. The whole reason for everything else.

Yes, what ultimately matters most as far as the show goes is that they "complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom [we've] been invested in for six years." But I suspect that's exactly why the writers didn't save all this cheesy bullshit for the final hour.

They pulled us out of the narrative flow for an hour to show us what it's all about, tying off what may be the the final historical loose ends. Now we have 3.5 more hours left for them to continue tying the rest of the drama together.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

-   Jacob's first goal is to protect The Light/Pandora's Box/Ark of the Covenant/whatever you want to call it, because it is the source of all the good stuff in life. It can't be destroyed because then none of us would be able to take naps or eat bacon. It can't be found or exploited by Man, because then we'd become corrupt jagoffs obsessed with naps and bacon, and would eventually melt like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jacob achieves this goal by killing off anyone who gets too close to discovering the light.
-   Jacob's second goal is to find someone to succeed him in his role of protector. Because like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon, he's getting too old for this sh*t. Jacob attempts to achieve this goal by bringing Candidates to the Island, in the hopes of one day finding a Candidate who is righteous enough to protect The Light without being tempted to take a dip in it.
-   Jacob's motivation is to please his dead Mom, because he was always second fiddle to the smarter, specialer Brother. Jacob is kind of a weenie.

Mostly, but I'm not totally sure it's as clear cut as Mother handing off the torch to Jacob, who's now handing off the torch to someone else, ad infinitum.

Because here's the thing that interests me the most the more I think about it...

I'm sure everyone immediately recognized these words spoken by Mother:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Across_the_Sea_transcript

BOY IN BLACK: Why didn't you tell us about them?

MOTHER: Because they're dangerous and I didn't want to frighten you.

JACOB: What makes them dangerous?

MOTHER: The same thing that makes all men dangerous. They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt... and it always ends the same.

BOY IN BLACK: They come? Come from where?

MOTHER: Another part of the island. And you're never to go looking for them. If they found you, they would hurt you.

JACOB: Why would they hurt us?

MOTHER: Because they're people, Jacob, and that's what people do.

What didn't really strike me, for whatever reason, until I actually went through the transcripts was how odd this was. Because it's the rebelious son that toes the family line on the nature of man.

Even as he works to undermine her commands, Smokey still agrees with Mother.

Meanwhile, it's the son who stood by her, her heir as the island's protector, who seems to reject this view:

MAN IN BLACK: ...Why do you watch us, Jacob?

JACOB [mutters]: I watch because I wanna know if Mother's right.

MAN IN BLACK: Right about what?

JACOB: About them

MAN IN BLACK: Oh, you mean my people. You wanna know if they're bad. That woman may be insane, but she's most definitely right about that.

JACOB: I don't know. They don't seem so bad to me.

MAN IN BLACK: That's easy for you to say. Looking down on us from above. Trust me, I've lived among them for 30 years. They're greedy, manipulative, untrustworthy, and selfish.

JACOB: Then why are you with them?

MAN IN BLACK: They're a means to an end.

Flash forward some 1800-odd years and we find that Jacob's doubts are even stronger, as Smokey continues to quote the words of the mother he rebelled against and murdered...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2_transcript

JACOB: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.

MAN IN BLACK: I am. How did they find the Island?

JACOB: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.

MAN IN BLACK: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?

JACOB: You are wrong.

MAN IN BLACK: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

(To be continued...)

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

So Jacob, though he took up Mother's mantle as protector of the island, doesn't seem to agree with her view of man as essentially "bad."

Of the two brothers, Smokey is more his (foster) mother's son when it comes to that cynicism.

My question is this: given their differing views on man, is Jacob's agenda different than his mother's was before him?

She did whatever she felt necessary to prevent men from finding the Light, up to and including going Stormtroopers-on-Tatooine on the village. (Somehow... Could she turn into smoke, too?)

"They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. And it always ends the same." She believs that being bad is just "what people do."

Jacob, though, has continued to deliberately bring people he's selected to the island, apparently because he continues believe otherwise.

Yeah, sometimes it still ends the same (e.g., The Purge). And yet Jacob still believes. Jacob's belief in men having the capacity to choose good continued to be borne out, up to his death at Ben's hands when he said "You have a choice."

MILES: Right up until the second the knife went through his heart, he was hoping he was wrong about you. I guess he wasn't.

More than that, he still has an end game in view. And end that we're progressing to, an end that would prove Smokey wrong.

We've been led to believe that the Candidate is destined to become the new Jacob, taking on his old role in the same way that we just saw him take on his mother's, and that things are to carry on as before. But what if that's not really the case? What if Jacob is finally approaching his finishing move in their 2000-year board game?

"It only ends once." Maybe sometime in the next 3.5 hours.

...

Now, if only I had some idea why Mother said "thank you" when Smokey dispatched her... Was it just because she wanted to finally die?

And why Smokey was/is "special"/her favorite... Is he the real story here?

Hmpf. Maybe I need to rethink everything.

[Weebs]

What doesn't really make sense to me is that the Mother says all men are evil, but how are Jacob/Smokey actually any different?  They're the children of some woman that wound up on the island along with all of the other evil people.  Yes, their Not-Mother made them immortal (apparently letting them age until their late-40s), but then they're still no different from someone like Richard.  Are we supposed to think that everyone is the same until they find The Light? 

I think the biggest problem with The Light is that it's just not something we needed to actually see.  The creators have said at several points that we're just supposed to understand that some things happen on the island because it's a crazy, mysterious island.  Not to mention, bringing in some magic light that causes all of these phenomenon changes the genre from Sci-Fi to Fantasy.  I would rather see them bullshit through some theory of quantum physics than see a tunnel of light that somehow is overloaded with electromagnetism and causes an island to travel through time when a wooden wheel (I guess) intersects with it.

Yes, this episode was very important to point out exactly how the Jacob/Smokey feud began, but they could have done without showing The Light tunnel.  Thinking about it more, you're right in it being the opposite of midichlorians.  With Star Wars, we didn't need a scientific explanation for a mystical force that gave the characters their powers.  With LOST, we didn't need a "magic tunnel" as the origin of number of things that have all been explained by science throughout the series.  I feel like it's basically answering every question about the scientific properties of the island with, "Because God did it."

[R-V]

Yes, their Not-Mother made them immortal (apparently letting them age until their late-40s), but then they're still no different from someone like Richard.

I think the triggering event for Jacob to stop aging was when he shared the wine with her.

For MIB, his body stopped aging because it was dead.