Starlin Castro Unbridled Manlove with a Side Order of Sploogetasticism Thread

[SKO]

At this point, why do anything unless someone's offering a good package for Castro?

Unless I'm missing something, having a roster full of guys who are good and can play multiple positions is good, right?

I'm sure they wouldn't trade him just to trade him. I think the prevailing thought is that they could use Castro (or whoever they trade) to get help for the rotation, which they'll have to address this winter.

There's also going to be a fuckload of FA pitching, so they might not have to lose anybody.

They don't have to lose anybody, we've established that the other 500 times we've had this conversation. They might be better off trading a piece they don't really need for young starting pitching though. Even if they can afford a TOR starter in FA, there's a lot of reasons why trading for a cheaper pitcher under the age of 30 makes way more sense. Lester's over 30, Jake isn't really young, Hammel can't really be relied on...a young guy they can build around would be very nice to have.

[SKO]

DPD, but say the Cubs can offer Castro and some prospects to get Ross or Carrasco or one of the young Rays starters. Then you could sign a guy like Mike Leake for far less than Price would cost, and use the leftover money to keep Fowler, shore up the bullpen, etc. That's not just the Cubs being too cheap to go after Price or whatever, that's arguably a better way to build the roster and ensure you're not dependent on a rotation with four guys over 30 in it.

[R-V]

DPD, but say the Cubs can offer Castro and some prospects to get Ross or Carrasco or one of the young Rays starters. Then you could sign a guy like Mike Leake for far less than Price would cost, and use the leftover money to keep Fowler, shore up the bullpen, etc. That's not just the Cubs being too cheap to go after Price or whatever, that's arguably a better way to build the roster and ensure you're not dependent on a rotation with four guys over 30 in it.

Going back to Eli's Felix Hernandez idea/fantasy - which largely depends on whether or not Dipoto wants to do a complete teardown - I was taking a look at his numbers compared to Price, and they're strikingly similar (including age) with one exception. First 4 stats are over the last 5 years; the last one is a career total. Should the fact that Felix has thrown that many more major league pitches make my ass itch? Or are all pitches (college/minors/majors) created relatively equal from an arm-stress standpoint?

Price
8.8  K/9
1.9  BB/9
2.98 FIP
3.13 xFIP
1441 major league IP

Felix
8.9  K/9
2.2  BB/9
2.96 FIP
2.97 xFIP
2262 major league IP

[Canadouche]

I know this is far more optimistic than realistic, but I'm kind of hopeful that Ricketts will splurge on a ridiculous amount of starting pitching over the next 4-5 years. The logic is that pretty much every piece of the Cubs offense is locked up for 5 or 6 years at team-friendly rates, right up until they begin (hopefully) extending them. The Cubs could go out and get a couple of high-priced starters who might even be totally off the books by the time they need to resign Bryant.

[Armchair_QB]

Yeah, but then what do you do with Soler? Hate to give up on that bat.

And I'll add that this is a nice fucking problem to have.

Good point. ...stick him in center? And yes, this is a really nice problem to have.

Re: my defensively suspect comment - I'm more referring to keeping Starlin on the field, and the fact that Bryant is probably not the best defensive choice for an outfield position (although he may be serviceable).

Have you...have you watched Jorge Soler play right field this year? And you're suggesting putting him in center while saying Bryant is the one that's a poor choice to be a defensive outfielder? I've seen plenty of scouts make Bryant-Alex Gordon comparisons as a guy whose height and struggles at 3B would lead him to move to the OF, where his speed would actually make him very effective. He's started games in CF and both corner OF spots this year and looked more than competent doing so. Certainly better than Jorge has for the most part.

Kurt is either joking or doesn't watch baseball.

More I'm basing what I'm saying on what Bryant has said re: his comfort level. But yeah, I honestly have no idea how they should juggle the outfield if Castro stays.

What has he said? My recollection was that he's down for anything.

That he'll play wherever the team needs him but his heart is at 3B.

Bryant could be a very solid third baseman, and so it not only stands to reason but has been demonstrated (albeit in small samples) that he could be a solid right fielder.

Baez, though, would already be a better third baseman than Bryant, if you want to go down that road.

This. Bryant has been better than advertised and can definitely stick at 3B for more than the Ryan Braun-esque cameo-before-moving-to-LF stint that was predicted for him by many a scout, but Javy would seem to have the tools to be a downright elite 3B. That barehand play he made in St. Louis still boggles my mind.

So, if you move Bryant to the OF and you don't trade Soler, Bryant in center? Soler in CF?  It gets a lot easier if Schwarber can really catch.  You could do Soler in LF, Bryant in RF and Fowler / replacement in CF.

I think they should just move Schwarber to CF for the simple reason it would be funny as hell to watch...

[Quality Start Machine]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

[SKO]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

But 200 million+ (and that's what Price will cost) for a pitcher over 30 doesn't scare the living shit out of you?

[Canadouche]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

Is Austin Jackson a viable, cheap alternative? He's a year younger, plays center, and his WAR isn't that much worse than Fowler's. That's more money for pitching.

[Saul Goodman]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

Is Austin Jackson a viable, cheap alternative? He's a year younger, plays center, and his WAR isn't that much worse than Fowler's. That's more money for pitching.

I think you should have to post their WARs when you say this because my initial reaction is, bullshit.

[Slaky]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

Is Austin Jackson a viable, cheap alternative? He's a year younger, plays center, and his WAR isn't that much worse than Fowler's. That's more money for pitching.

I think you should have to post their WARs when you say this because my initial reaction is, bullshit.

Fowler - 3.1 fWAR
Jackson - 2.2 fWAR

[PenFoe]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

But 200 million+ (and that's what Price will cost) for a pitcher over 30 doesn't scare the living shit out of you?

I think the difference here is that $200M (or close to it) is basically the cost of admission for a top-tier pitcher, while you can get a pretty decent CF for relatively cheaper than the $15/year it's probably going to cost to sign Fowler who can keep the spot warm until Baez/Torres/Bryant converts to full-time CF.

[Quality Start Machine]

I'm getting more and more leery of resigning Fowler, just because teams that pay a lot of dough for a veteran who has the best year in his life during a contract year generally regret doing so.

But 200 million+ (and that's what Price will cost) for a pitcher over 30 doesn't scare the living shit out of you?

David Price is an elite-level pitcher. Dexter Fowler is a decent center fielder having the season of his life.

[Eli]

DPD, but say the Cubs can offer Castro and some prospects to get Ross or Carrasco or one of the young Rays starters. Then you could sign a guy like Mike Leake for far less than Price would cost, and use the leftover money to keep Fowler, shore up the bullpen, etc. That's not just the Cubs being too cheap to go after Price or whatever, that's arguably a better way to build the roster and ensure you're not dependent on a rotation with four guys over 30 in it.

Going back to Eli's Felix Hernandez idea/fantasy - which largely depends on whether or not Dipoto wants to do a complete teardown - I was taking a look at his numbers compared to Price, and they're strikingly similar (including age) with one exception. First 4 stats are over the last 5 years; the last one is a career total. Should the fact that Felix has thrown that many more major league pitches make my ass itch? Or are all pitches (college/minors/majors) created relatively equal from an arm-stress standpoint?

Price
8.8  K/9
1.9  BB/9
2.98 FIP
3.13 xFIP
1441 major league IP

Felix
8.9  K/9
2.2  BB/9
2.96 FIP
2.97 xFIP
2262 major league IP

I think some part of that was Felix hitting the bigs at 19 and Price having a full college career. I don't think it covers the whole gap, but Price was still throwing through those years.

I'm not too worried about the health of either guy. Aren't there studies showing that guys who are healthy up until a certain age/innings level tend to remain healthy for most of their careers? Maybe I'm making that up.

[Canadouche]

DPD, but say the Cubs can offer Castro and some prospects to get Ross or Carrasco or one of the young Rays starters. Then you could sign a guy like Mike Leake for far less than Price would cost, and use the leftover money to keep Fowler, shore up the bullpen, etc. That's not just the Cubs being too cheap to go after Price or whatever, that's arguably a better way to build the roster and ensure you're not dependent on a rotation with four guys over 30 in it.

Going back to Eli's Felix Hernandez idea/fantasy - which largely depends on whether or not Dipoto wants to do a complete teardown - I was taking a look at his numbers compared to Price, and they're strikingly similar (including age) with one exception. First 4 stats are over the last 5 years; the last one is a career total. Should the fact that Felix has thrown that many more major league pitches make my ass itch? Or are all pitches (college/minors/majors) created relatively equal from an arm-stress standpoint?

Price
8.8  K/9
1.9  BB/9
2.98 FIP
3.13 xFIP
1441 major league IP

Felix
8.9  K/9
2.2  BB/9
2.96 FIP
2.97 xFIP
2262 major league IP

I think some part of that was Felix hitting the bigs at 19 and Price having a full college career. I don't think it covers the whole gap, but Price was still throwing through those years.

I'm not too worried about the health of either guy. Aren't there studies showing that guys who are healthy up until a certain age/innings level tend to remain healthy for most of their careers? Maybe I'm making that up.

As a counterpoint -- and I could be making this up -- there hasn't been a pitcher who's signed a 100 million dollar contract and remained healthy for the duration of the deal. That's what makes signing pitchers on the free agent market so obscene. Teams are not only paying a ton of money, but the actual cost is even greater because they're likely getting 4 years of production on a 6+ year contract. The only teams that "win" are the ones who have enough money to keep signing expensive pitchers even when their current crop begins to go bust. (In other words, the Yankees.) 

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I'm not too worried about the health of either guy. Aren't there studies showing that guys who are healthy up until a certain age/innings level tend to remain healthy for most of their careers? Maybe I'm making that up.

Oh sure...it's okay when YOU do it.

As a counterpoint -- and I could be making this up --

Look what you've done