The Jeff Samardzija Defenestration Thread

[SKO]

Didn't want to let too much time pass after the deadline without bumping this thread to thank the baby Jesus the Cubs didn't get this turd back.

"Hi, It's Theo. What will it take to get the guy back who publicly called me out for fucking up the team after I made the best trade of my life?"

Yeah, I'm pretty sure if the Cubs and Giants spoke at all, the name being tossed around was Cueto.

So you think this was teh better conversation?

"Hi, It's Theo. What will it take to get the guy who's on the DL with a contract that he can opt out of giving us neither team control nor any predictable cost?"

Call me crazy but I think Cueto's health issues and opt-out are way bigger obstacles than something some pitcher said 3 years ago about a trade from the only professional organization he'd known.  Now, Samardzija's no-trade clause is another matter.

Cueto would have been a cheap rental. Like, Chesny Young cheap. And Snork would have waived to come to Chicago.

Cueto is not a rental. A dude with his injury situation and history has to be considered extremely likely to not exercise his opt-out, which would leave the Cubs stuck with an injured pitcher owed 90 million through age 35.

[SKO]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

[Quality Start Machine]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

[SKO]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

Oh for sure, which is why Jeff Samardzija was cruelly punished for those comments by getting a 90 million dollar contract afterwards.

I don't think any GM is so thin-skinned as to give a shit about a player saying "umm actually we would like to win." As much as we have all hated on Snork (and frankly that comment, while funny in hindsight, has never been in my top 10 reasons to hate Snork), that comment was in no way incendiary or stupid enough to merit a GM blacklisting him for it. Fuck, the Cubs offered him contracts twice after that comment. Montero was released because his comments attacked another teammate and before that he questioned the manager. Those things are outright insubordination. A player stuck on a perpetual loser grumbling because he's out there trying to win every day and just isn't smart enough to see a long term plan wouldn't even register on Theo's radar as a malcontent.

[Oleg]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

This is a weird convo.  Montero threw his teammate under the bus.  How thin-skinned do you think Epstink is?  In fact, if you're going to use Montero as an example, perhaps he's a good case study for why criticizing management doesn't really have an effect since he criticized Maddon after the World Series and was still on the roster this year until he popped off about his teammate.

"Man, I sure would love to improve my roster and have a better shot at winning a World Series but boy, my feelings got hurt that one time I traded that pitcher so I'll get the worse option instead."

Fuck!  And now you have me defending Samardzjia.  Fuck you.

And, I got THINSKINNEDFACED on top of it.  Banner day, Fork.

[SKO]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

This is a weird convo.  Montero threw his teammate under the bus.  How thin-skinned do you think Epstink is?  In fact, if you're going to use Montero as an example, perhaps he's a good case study for why criticizing management doesn't really have an effect since he criticized Maddon after the World Series and was still on the roster this year until he popped off about his teammate.

"Man, I sure would love to improve my roster and have a better shot at winning a World Series but boy, my feelings got hurt that one time I traded that pitcher so I'll get the worse option instead."

Fuck!  And now you have me defending Samardzjia.  Fuck you.

Yeah, Theo by most accounts can take just about anything you throw at him, and he'd probably just write off that Snork comment as what it was, a dude who wanted to win games being short-sighted. I mean shit, even if Snork was smart enough to understand the plan it can't have been fun to be in the prime of your career and have someone say "hey just wait 2-3 more years and we'll win!" Players are not obligated to like being treated as replaceable cogs in the machine even if that is all they are.

[Oleg]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

This is a weird convo.  Montero threw his teammate under the bus.  How thin-skinned do you think Epstink is?  In fact, if you're going to use Montero as an example, perhaps he's a good case study for why criticizing management doesn't really have an effect since he criticized Maddon after the World Series and was still on the roster this year until he popped off about his teammate.

"Man, I sure would love to improve my roster and have a better shot at winning a World Series but boy, my feelings got hurt that one time I traded that pitcher so I'll get the worse option instead."

Fuck!  And now you have me defending Samardzjia.  Fuck you.

Yeah, Theo by most accounts can take just about anything you throw at him, and he'd probably just write off that Snork comment as what it was, a dude who wanted to win games being short-sighted. I mean shit, even if Snork was smart enough to understand the plan it can't have been fun to be in the prime of your career and have someone say "hey just wait 2-3 more years and we'll win!" Players are not obligated to like being treated as replaceable cogs in the machine even if that is all they are.

I think that we, as fans, have a more emotional reaction to most of these types of things than the dudes who write the checks and make the decisions.  Just like when we think that there's no way the Cubs and Sox will trade for each other because of rivalry or whatever.  Most of the shit we think is important doesn't even register in the minds of those who make decisions.

[Quality Start Machine]

Theo has made "Character" one of the main themes of building this team. It's kind of paradoxical, given the fact that a metrics-heavy organization would then put a lot of weight on something that is completely unquantifiable (I know it when I see it).

So in that regard, I could see him passing on Snork.

But there's also the whole better-and-cheaper Quintana they did get.

And I do believe that Cueto will opt out. The starting pitcher market this winter will be pretty thin. He could very well cash in.

[SKO]

Theo has made "Character" one of the main themes of building this team. It's kind of paradoxical, given the fact that a metrics-heavy organization would then put a lot of weight on something that is completely unquantifiable (I know it when I see it).

So in that regard, I could see him passing on Snork.

But there's also the whole better-and-cheaper Quintana they did get.

And I do believe that Cueto will opt out. The starting pitcher market this winter will be pretty thin. He could very well cash in.

And yet the Chapman thing, the Russell thing, and the fact that it's come out only afterward that "umm actually Montero was an asshole and a malcontent nobody liked". Character is bullshit, stop giving them credit for that nonsense, they proved it doesn't matter.

Also, there's not really any evidence Snork has bad character. I mean he has a punchable face and I hate him but his teammates seem to like him, there's never been any reports of him having trouble in the clubhouse, the one negative comment we have blown out of context for 5 years now was him saying he was going to miss Scott Feldman, a teammate, and he didn't see how losing a guy like that helped them win. No GM is going to interpret a guy saying "I will miss this dude, he was good, and he helped us win, and I would like to win" as a friggin clubhouse cancer.

You're projecting how you feel about Snork onto Theo and the argument is tenuous at best, since, again, Theo offered Snork an extension after that AND talked to him last winter about coming back. Theo does. not. give. a. shit.

[SKO]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

This is a weird convo.  Montero threw his teammate under the bus.  How thin-skinned do you think Epstink is?  In fact, if you're going to use Montero as an example, perhaps he's a good case study for why criticizing management doesn't really have an effect since he criticized Maddon after the World Series and was still on the roster this year until he popped off about his teammate.

"Man, I sure would love to improve my roster and have a better shot at winning a World Series but boy, my feelings got hurt that one time I traded that pitcher so I'll get the worse option instead."

Fuck!  And now you have me defending Samardzjia.  Fuck you.

Yeah, Theo by most accounts can take just about anything you throw at him, and he'd probably just write off that Snork comment as what it was, a dude who wanted to win games being short-sighted. I mean shit, even if Snork was smart enough to understand the plan it can't have been fun to be in the prime of your career and have someone say "hey just wait 2-3 more years and we'll win!" Players are not obligated to like being treated as replaceable cogs in the machine even if that is all they are.

I think that we, as fans, have a more emotional reaction to most of these types of things than the dudes who write the checks and make the decisions.  Just like when we think that there's no way the Cubs and Sox will trade for each other because of rivalry or whatever.  Most of the shit we think is important doesn't even register in the minds of those who make decisions.

DPD, but while that is mostly correct apparently the Cubs and Sox had agreed on the Q deal several days before it was announced bc Hahn/Williams still had to convince Reinsdorf to sign off on it, and several people think he only agreed to it since at least he wouldn't be helping the Cubs break the streak. So at least one moron in charge still cares somewhat.

[Oleg]

Also yeah Theo would give no fucks about trading for Snork if he thought it made the team better, athletes are dumb and say dumb things and Theo has repeatedly said he doesn't blame any player that got frustrated with losing. He wants them to be frustrated with losing.

Yeah, but guys who pop off about management don't have a long shelf life. Ask Montero.

This is a weird convo.  Montero threw his teammate under the bus.  How thin-skinned do you think Epstink is?  In fact, if you're going to use Montero as an example, perhaps he's a good case study for why criticizing management doesn't really have an effect since he criticized Maddon after the World Series and was still on the roster this year until he popped off about his teammate.

"Man, I sure would love to improve my roster and have a better shot at winning a World Series but boy, my feelings got hurt that one time I traded that pitcher so I'll get the worse option instead."

Fuck!  And now you have me defending Samardzjia.  Fuck you.

Yeah, Theo by most accounts can take just about anything you throw at him, and he'd probably just write off that Snork comment as what it was, a dude who wanted to win games being short-sighted. I mean shit, even if Snork was smart enough to understand the plan it can't have been fun to be in the prime of your career and have someone say "hey just wait 2-3 more years and we'll win!" Players are not obligated to like being treated as replaceable cogs in the machine even if that is all they are.

I think that we, as fans, have a more emotional reaction to most of these types of things than the dudes who write the checks and make the decisions.  Just like when we think that there's no way the Cubs and Sox will trade for each other because of rivalry or whatever.  Most of the shit we think is important doesn't even register in the minds of those who make decisions.

DPD, but while that is mostly correct apparently the Cubs and Sox had agreed on the Q deal several days before it was announced bc Hahn/Williams still had to convince Reinsdorf to sign off on it, and several people think he only agreed to it since at least he wouldn't be helping the Cubs break the streak. So at least one moron in charge still cares somewhat.

That's a good point.  Although I think the Reinsdorf thing is probably caused more by economic competition (like the Nats and Os not trading with each other) more than some meatball rivalry argument.

[Oleg]

Theo has made "Character" one of the main themes of building this team. It's kind of paradoxical, given the fact that a metrics-heavy organization would then put a lot of weight on something that is completely unquantifiable (I know it when I see it).

So in that regard, I could see him passing on Snork.

But there's also the whole better-and-cheaper Quintana they did get.

And I do believe that Cueto will opt out. The starting pitcher market this winter will be pretty thin. He could very well cash in.

And yet the Chapman thing, the Russell thing, and the fact that it's come out only afterward that "umm actually Montero was an asshole and a malcontent nobody liked". Character is bullshit, stop giving them credit for that nonsense, they proved it doesn't matter.

Also, there's not really any evidence Snork has bad character. I mean he has a punchable face and I hate him but his teammates seem to like him, there's never been any reports of him having trouble in the clubhouse, the one negative comment we have blown out of context for 5 years now was him saying he was going to miss Scott Feldman, a teammate, and he didn't see how losing a guy like that helped them win. No GM is going to interpret a guy saying "I will miss this dude, he was good, and he helped us win, and I would like to win" as a friggin clubhouse cancer.

You're projecting how you feel about Snork onto Theo and the argument is tenuous at best, since, again, Theo offered Snork an extension after that AND talked to him last winter about coming back. Theo does. not. give. a. shit.

While we're at it, I think it may be fair, in the realm of this discussion, to separate "social character traits" from "good teammate character".  Chapman is a piece of shit.  It also seems that Chapman is a good teammate.

[SKO]

Theo has made "Character" one of the main themes of building this team. It's kind of paradoxical, given the fact that a metrics-heavy organization would then put a lot of weight on something that is completely unquantifiable (I know it when I see it).

So in that regard, I could see him passing on Snork.

But there's also the whole better-and-cheaper Quintana they did get.

And I do believe that Cueto will opt out. The starting pitcher market this winter will be pretty thin. He could very well cash in.

And yet the Chapman thing, the Russell thing, and the fact that it's come out only afterward that "umm actually Montero was an asshole and a malcontent nobody liked". Character is bullshit, stop giving them credit for that nonsense, they proved it doesn't matter.

Also, there's not really any evidence Snork has bad character. I mean he has a punchable face and I hate him but his teammates seem to like him, there's never been any reports of him having trouble in the clubhouse, the one negative comment we have blown out of context for 5 years now was him saying he was going to miss Scott Feldman, a teammate, and he didn't see how losing a guy like that helped them win. No GM is going to interpret a guy saying "I will miss this dude, he was good, and he helped us win, and I would like to win" as a friggin clubhouse cancer.

You're projecting how you feel about Snork onto Theo and the argument is tenuous at best, since, again, Theo offered Snork an extension after that AND talked to him last winter about coming back. Theo does. not. give. a. shit.

While we're at it, I think it may be fair, in the realm of this discussion, to separate "social character traits" from "good teammate character".  Chapman is a piece of shit.  It also seems that Chapman is a good teammate.

Yup. I absolutely believe the Cubs focus on "chemistry", not character. They want guys who will be great in that locker room, not cause trouble, get along, play hard together etc. They don't care what happens outside of that locker room. Snork by all accounts is well liked by his teammates and always has been, as far as I know.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Is Fork actually doubling down on the notion that Epstink thinks like the fans do?

[SKO]

Is Fork actually doubling down on the notion that Epstink thinks like the fans do?

I think its more Fork thinks he thinks like Epstink does.

*Ron Howard Voice*
He does not.