Lilly Rotation; Zambrano Bullpen

[Brownie]

How do you handle Z? Simple. You play him as often as possible. Start him on 3 days rest. Put him out in left (and put Soriano at second) when he's not pitching. Maybe have him play first every once in a while to show Derrek Lee how easy it is. He'll either get hurt (in which case you have a spot on th 60-day DL), get pissed and mope (in which case you bench him and make him the last guy out of the bullpen), or demonstrate value in the field.

Batshit-crazy outfielders that can hit have more trade value than batshit-crazy pitchers who can't get anyone out.

[Chuck to Chuck]

How do you handle Z? Simple. You play him as often as possible. Start him on 3 days rest. Put him out in left (and put Soriano at second) when he's not pitching. Maybe have him play first every once in a while to show Derrek Lee how easy it is. He'll either get hurt (in which case you have a spot on th 60-day DL), get pissed and mope (in which case you bench him and make him the last guy out of the bullpen), or demonstrate value in the field.

Batshit-crazy outfielders that can hit have more trade value than batshit-crazy pitchers who can't get anyone out.

Z's got a decent arm.  Don't waste him at first. How about right field?

[Yeti]

Aren't we again veering into meathead territory with the "look like they care" stuff? Winning teams look like they care. Losing teams don't. Is the reason that half the team is underachieving due to apathy? Or something else? I'm voting on something else.

Just my thoughts.

Agreed. It's the old "flip over a table in the clubhouse to show you care" crap. Even if it does mean you care, it doesn't mean you're going to get better at baseball.

I don't care if Zambrano's rage wasn't initially directed at Lee. The fact that Lee, who I don't think anyone would label a hothead and comes across as a pretty mild-mannered dude (with the exception I guess being him crying about the mean fans booing people), told him to shut the fuck up, might be an indication that the team is sick of Z throwing them under the bus. And let's say Z WAS trying to "fire up" the team...wouldn't you take Lee telling you to shut the fuck up as a clue to maybe, I don't know, shut the fuck up?

When? You mean after he didn't lose his shit after his defense shat the bed in Game 2 of the NLDS? Actually, I think he handled that admirably when I think about it. Are you referring to some other time?

This is definitely not the first time Z has thrown a shitfit when somebody failed to make a play in the field. Obviously he's had a legitimate gripe with his slapdick teammates in most of those cases, but I don't think this was one of them.

Like I said above, I don't think it was about Lee. I think it was a culmination of 3 months of frustation that spewed out. I mean the guy was sent to the fucking bullpen, the team is like 10 games below .500, way out of the division race, and giving up 4 runs in the first inning has the makings of an "L" all over it.

Do you ever stop to question the reason behind your insistence on defending total assholes?

Not usually, no. I don't think my "Z-love" will reach Milton Bradley levels of idiocy and absurdity, but I don't really think he was calling anyone out in particular. I have an aversion to hating players I once irrationally loved. However, this season has made me inch closer and closer to being on the "TRADE Z" bandwagon. Friday was almost the straw the broke my cameltoed back.

[Kermit IV]

Aren't we again veering into meathead territory with the "look like they care" stuff? Winning teams look like they care. Losing teams don't. Is the reason that half the team is underachieving due to apathy? Or something else? I'm voting on something else.

Just my thoughts.

Agreed. It's the old "flip over a table in the clubhouse to show you care" crap. Even if it does mean you care, it doesn't mean you're going to get better at baseball.

I don't care if Zambrano's rage wasn't initially directed at Lee. The fact that Lee, who I don't think anyone would label a hothead and comes across as a pretty mild-mannered dude (with the exception I guess being him crying about the mean fans booing people), told him to shut the fuck up, might be an indication that the team is sick of Z throwing them under the bus. And let's say Z WAS trying to "fire up" the team...wouldn't you take Lee telling you to shut the fuck up as a clue to maybe, I don't know, shut the fuck up?

When? You mean after he didn't lose his shit after his defense shat the bed in Game 2 of the NLDS? Actually, I think he handled that admirably when I think about it. Are you referring to some other time?

This is definitely not the first time Z has thrown a shitfit when somebody failed to make a play in the field. Obviously he's had a legitimate gripe with his slapdick teammates in most of those cases, but I don't think this was one of them.

Like I said above, I don't think it was about Lee. I think it was a culmination of 3 months of frustation that spewed out. I mean the guy was sent to the fucking bullpen, the team is like 10 games below .500, way out of the division race, and giving up 4 runs in the first inning has the makings of an "L" all over it.

Do you ever stop to question the reason behind your insistence on defending total assholes?

Not usually, no. I don't think my "Z-love" will reach Milton Bradley levels of idiocy and absurdity, but I don't really think he was calling anyone out in particular. I have an aversion to hating players I once irrationally loved. However, this season has made me inch closer and closer to being on the "TRADE Z" bandwagon. Friday was almost the straw the broke my cameltoed back.

I don't care if he was calling out anyone in particular.  Carlos only has one person to blame for his shitty performance this season.  I had hoped he'd changed when he handled the move to the bullpen relatively gracefully, but he's still the same child he's always been.  I sure hope he had a nice dinner with Ozzie on Friday night!

Everyone knows the protocol when you think players are tanking plays for a certain pitcher.  Tom Berenger goes to their houses and threatens to cut their nuts off and stuff them down their fucking throats.  It's bad form to do it in the dugout.

[oog]

Aren't we again veering into meathead territory with the "look like they care" stuff? Winning teams look like they care. Losing teams don't. Is the reason that half the team is underachieving due to apathy? Or something else? I'm voting on something else.

Just my thoughts.

Agreed. It's the old "flip over a table in the clubhouse to show you care" crap. Even if it does mean you care, it doesn't mean you're going to get better at baseball.

I don't care if Zambrano's rage wasn't initially directed at Lee. The fact that Lee, who I don't think anyone would label a hothead and comes across as a pretty mild-mannered dude (with the exception I guess being him crying about the mean fans booing people), tried to punch a pitcher in the face, might be an indication that the team is sick of Z throwing them under the bus. And let's say Z WAS trying to "fire up" the team...wouldn't you take Lee telling you to shut the fuck up as a clue to maybe, I don't know, shut the fuck up?

Chris Young'd

[Brownie]

How do you handle Z? Simple. You play him as often as possible. Start him on 3 days rest. Put him out in left (and put Soriano at second) when he's not pitching. Maybe have him play first every once in a while to show Derrek Lee how easy it is. He'll either get hurt (in which case you have a spot on th 60-day DL), get pissed and mope (in which case you bench him and make him the last guy out of the bullpen), or demonstrate value in the field.

Batshit-crazy outfielders that can hit have more trade value than batshit-crazy pitchers who can't get anyone out.

Steve Stone has now taken my idea and promoted as a serious thought. Let this be a warning for all you youngsters out there who still think Stone is a brilliant baseball sage.

[BH]

How do you handle Z? Simple. You play him as often as possible. Start him on 3 days rest. Put him out in left (and put Soriano at second) when he's not pitching. Maybe have him play first every once in a while to show Derrek Lee how easy it is. He'll either get hurt (in which case you have a spot on th 60-day DL), get pissed and mope (in which case you bench him and make him the last guy out of the bullpen), or demonstrate value in the field.

Batshit-crazy outfielders that can hit have more trade value than batshit-crazy pitchers who can't get anyone out.

Steve Stone has now taken my idea and promoted as a serious thought. Let this be a warning for all you youngsters out there who still think Stone is a brilliant baseball sage.

What Zambrano needs IS A LESSON.

[Yeti]

Aren't we again veering into meathead territory with the "look like they care" stuff? Winning teams look like they care. Losing teams don't. Is the reason that half the team is underachieving due to apathy? Or something else? I'm voting on something else.

Just my thoughts.

Agreed. It's the old "flip over a table in the clubhouse to show you care" crap. Even if it does mean you care, it doesn't mean you're going to get better at baseball.

I don't care if Zambrano's rage wasn't initially directed at Lee. The fact that Lee, who I don't think anyone would label a hothead and comes across as a pretty mild-mannered dude (with the exception I guess being him crying about the mean fans booing people), told him to shut the fuck up, might be an indication that the team is sick of Z throwing them under the bus. And let's say Z WAS trying to "fire up" the team...wouldn't you take Lee telling you to shut the fuck up as a clue to maybe, I don't know, shut the fuck up?

When? You mean after he didn't lose his shit after his defense shat the bed in Game 2 of the NLDS? Actually, I think he handled that admirably when I think about it. Are you referring to some other time?

This is definitely not the first time Z has thrown a shitfit when somebody failed to make a play in the field. Obviously he's had a legitimate gripe with his slapdick teammates in most of those cases, but I don't think this was one of them.

Like I said above, I don't think it was about Lee. I think it was a culmination of 3 months of frustation that spewed out. I mean the guy was sent to the fucking bullpen, the team is like 10 games below .500, way out of the division race, and giving up 4 runs in the first inning has the makings of an "L" all over it.

Do you ever stop to question the reason behind your insistence on defending total assholes?

Not usually, no. I don't think my "Z-love" will reach Milton Bradley levels of idiocy and absurdity, but I don't really think he was calling anyone out in particular. I have an aversion to hating players I once irrationally loved. However, this season has made me inch closer and closer to being on the "TRADE Z" bandwagon. Friday was almost the straw the broke my cameltoed back.

I don't care if he was calling out anyone in particular.  Carlos only has one person to blame for his shitty performance this season.  I had hoped he'd changed when he handled the move to the bullpen relatively gracefully, but he's still the same child he's always been.  I sure hope he had a nice dinner with Ozzie on Friday night!

Everyone knows the protocol when you think players are tanking plays for a certain pitcher.  Tom Berenger goes to their houses and threatens to cut their nuts off and stuff them down their fucking throats.  It's bad form to do it in the dugout.

Well, this is correct. He's been relatively shitty. As far as acting like a child like always, Buck Showalter actually kind of summed up all I need to know about people's opinions about Zambrano's mental demeanor when it comes to the game. After he gave up around 3 runs in the top of the 8th against Pissburgh, he just casually walked off the mound after the inning was done. Showalter pointed out that it looks like Zambrano just doesn't care. Now, if we know one thing, it's that Zambrano hasn't not cared in his career. So, basically, we go from hearing "Zambrano gets too worked up. He needs to be more relaxed" to "He needs to show the FIER N DA PASHUN". There is no action that Zambrano can do as far as "non-pitching activities" (read: blow-ups or the lack thereof) that will ever please people.

Anyhow, really, I just want to judge people on their on-field performances. And besides this year, Carlos has been pretty damn good every year since 2003. That's really what I'm focusing on. I admit I was a bit taken back by his antics on Friday. At the time, I thought I was done with him. Then, I kind of realized that's not my style. After that start before this one I thought he was on his way back. Friday just completely ruined that. If I'm going to hate him, I'm going to hate him for being a gutless asshole, which this year he's kind of turned into.

[BH]

Crazy Rumor Guy with potential Z trade partners.

Get r' done Jimmy!

"Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo are owed a total of $27.6MM.  The Mets would be taking on nearly $18MM to own Zambrano through '12 and finally ditch this pair of bad contracts. "

[Gilgamesh]

Crazy Rumor Guy with potential Z trade partners.

Get r' done Jimmy!

"Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo are owed a total of $27.6MM.  The Mets would be taking on nearly $18MM to own Zambrano through '12 and finally ditch this pair of bad contracts. "

This sounds like the Bradley list of suitors all over again.

Guh.

[PenPho]

Crazy Rumor Guy with potential Z trade partners.

Get r' done Jimmy!

"Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo are owed a total of $27.6MM.  The Mets would be taking on nearly $18MM to own Zambrano through '12 and finally ditch this pair of bad contracts. "

This sounds like the Bradley list of suitors all over again.

Guh.

If only there were two Carlos Silvas.

[PenPho]

Carlos Zambrano will be placed on the restricted list, undergo a treatment program for his anger issues and will not return to the team until after the All-Star break.

[Kermit IV]

Crazy Rumor Guy with potential Z trade partners.

Get r' done Jimmy!

"Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo are owed a total of $27.6MM.  The Mets would be taking on nearly $18MM to own Zambrano through '12 and finally ditch this pair of bad contracts. "

This sounds like the Bradley list of suitors all over again.

Guh.

If only there were two Carlos Silvas.

Are you trying to tell me that's NOT two guys?

[Powdered Toast Man]

Carlos Zambrano will be placed on the restricted list, undergo a treatment program for his anger issues and will not return to the team until after the All-Star break.

How can things get any more retarded?  Probably if they let retards play.

[Quality Start Machine]

Carlos Zambrano will be placed on the restricted list, undergo a treatment program for his anger issues and will not return to the team until after the All-Star break.

How can things get any more retarded?  Probably if they let retards play.

There's been a few since Farnsworth.