The All-Purpose No Bullshit Tolerating Who Should Be the Next Manager Thread

[PenFoe]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

We were having this very conversation in the SBox (I know, crazy right??)  and basically it seems like Hoystein must believe that Sveum is not the guy to nurturing the young guys and helping them get to the next level (or some shit like that.)

If so, I think this is the right move, but then it's a really bad evaluation job in the first place, since this was always the most important trait of what they were hiring for (in addition to someone that could lose 100 games a season without taking an axe to someone.) 

That said, having made more than one bad hire in the past, I'm willing to overlook this as long as they keep stockpiling the team with young talent. 

[Yeti]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

We were having this very conversation in the SBox (I know, crazy right??)  and basically it seems like Hoystein must believe that Sveum is not the guy to nurturing the young guys and helping them get to the next level (or some shit like that.)

If so, I think this is the right move, but then it's a really bad evaluation job in the first place, since this was always the most important trait of what they were hiring for (in addition to someone that could lose 100 games a season without taking an axe to someone.) 

That said, having made more than one bad hire in the past, I'm willing to overlook this as long as they keep stockpiling the team with young talent. 

I hope Girardi is offered the job, but he needs a week to decide, so the Cubs decide they can't wait, and we're stuck with Don Baylor.

H/T: TEC

[Chuck to Chuck]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

We were having this very conversation in the SBox (I know, crazy right??)  and basically it seems like Hoystein must believe that Sveum is not the guy to nurturing the young guys and helping them get to the next level (or some shit like that.)

If so, I think this is the right move, but then it's a really bad evaluation job in the first place, since this was always the most important trait of what they were hiring for (in addition to someone that could lose 100 games a season without taking an axe to someone.) 

That said, having made more than one bad hire in the past, I'm willing to overlook this as long as they keep stockpiling the team with young talent. 

The other possibility is that the guy they want is available now and won't be available later.

[PenFoe]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

We were having this very conversation in the SBox (I know, crazy right??)  and basically it seems like Hoystein must believe that Sveum is not the guy to nurturing the young guys and helping them get to the next level (or some shit like that.)

If so, I think this is the right move, but then it's a really bad evaluation job in the first place, since this was always the most important trait of what they were hiring for (in addition to someone that could lose 100 games a season without taking an axe to someone.) 

That said, having made more than one bad hire in the past, I'm willing to overlook this as long as they keep stockpiling the team with young talent. 

I hope Girardi is offered the job, but he needs a week to decide, so the Cubs decide they can't wait, and we're stuck with Don Baylor.

H/T: TEC

Intrepid Reader: Huey, Eli, Thrill, etc.

You know, not ALL SBox jokes just naturally translate here.

[Eli]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

We were having this very conversation in the SBox (I know, crazy right??)  and basically it seems like Hoystein must believe that Sveum is not the guy to nurturing the young guys and helping them get to the next level (or some shit like that.)

If so, I think this is the right move, but then it's a really bad evaluation job in the first place, since this was always the most important trait of what they were hiring for (in addition to someone that could lose 100 games a season without taking an axe to someone.) 

That said, having made more than one bad hire in the past, I'm willing to overlook this as long as they keep stockpiling the team with young talent. 

I hope Girardi is offered the job, but he needs a week to decide, so the Cubs decide they can't wait, and we're stuck with Don Baylor.

H/T: TEC

Intrepid Reader: Huey, Eli, Thrill, etc.

You know, not ALL SBox jokes just naturally translate here.

I think Yeti has proven many times that he does not know that.

[Quality Start Machine]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

Unless he lost his clubhouse. Neither Kevin Gregg nor Edwin Jackson have ever lost their shit at managers like that before. If you've got an environment where veterans like that are blasting their manager, you don't want to bring young guys into that.

Sveum took a roster where anybody who wasn't part of the long term plan that could be traded was, and Jepstink knew they were playing for a draft slot. Whatever rationale there was for firing Sveum wasn't predicated on wins and losses.

[Yeti]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

We were having this very conversation in the SBox (I know, crazy right??)  and basically it seems like Hoystein must believe that Sveum is not the guy to nurturing the young guys and helping them get to the next level (or some shit like that.)

If so, I think this is the right move, but then it's a really bad evaluation job in the first place, since this was always the most important trait of what they were hiring for (in addition to someone that could lose 100 games a season without taking an axe to someone.) 

That said, having made more than one bad hire in the past, I'm willing to overlook this as long as they keep stockpiling the team with young talent. 

I hope Girardi is offered the job, but he needs a week to decide, so the Cubs decide they can't wait, and we're stuck with Don Baylor.

H/T: TEC

Intrepid Reader: Huey, Eli, Thrill, etc.

You know, not ALL SBox jokes just naturally translate here.

I think Yeti has proven many times that he does not know that.

I just enjoy the frustration of those non-SBoxers (WTF are you doing all day??) when SBox shit comes over here.

[BH]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

Unless he lost his clubhouse. Neither Kevin Gregg nor Edwin Jackson have ever lost their shit at managers like that before. If you've got an environment where veterans like that are blasting their manager, you don't want to bring young guys into that.

Sveum took a roster where anybody who wasn't part of the long term plan that could be traded was, and Jepstink knew they were playing for a draft slot. Whatever rationale there was for firing Sveum wasn't predicated on wins and losses.

Congrats on being the first person to suggest Sveum was fired because he upset kevin gregg.

[Internet Apex]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

Unless he lost his clubhouse. Neither Kevin Gregg nor Edwin Jackson have ever lost their shit at managers like that before. If you've got an environment where veterans like that are blasting their manager, you don't want to bring young guys into that.

Sveum took a roster where anybody who wasn't part of the long term plan that could be traded was, and Jepstink knew they were playing for a draft slot. Whatever rationale there was for firing Sveum wasn't predicated on wins and losses.

You know, it could also be that the guy they want is available now but won't be later.

[Armchair_QB]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

Unless he lost his clubhouse. Neither Kevin Gregg nor Edwin Jackson have ever lost their shit at managers like that before. If you've got an environment where veterans like that are blasting their manager, you don't want to bring young guys into that.

Sveum took a roster where anybody who wasn't part of the long term plan that could be traded was, and Jepstink knew they were playing for a draft slot. Whatever rationale there was for firing Sveum wasn't predicated on wins and losses.

You know, it could also be that the guy they want is available now but won't be later.

I haven't read that anywhere.

[Saul Goodman]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

It's a very rational act if they think they can get Joe Girardi, or Mike Scioscia, or another highly-qualified, experienced, successful manager who they're satisfied can do a better job of developing all of their young talent during the critical next few years -- and win with them -- than Sveum could have done.

Here's Theo's explanation. You can decide for yourself if you buy it or not, but it doesn't strike me as irrational.

"I have a lot of admiration for Dale personally, and we all learned a lot from the way he has handled the trying circumstances of the last two years, especially the last two weeks, with strength and dignity," Epstein said in a statement.

"In his own authentic and understated way, Dale always put the team first and never complained about the hand he was dealt. He and his staff helped us excel in game planning and defensive positioning, contributed to the emergence of several players, and helped put us in position to make some important trades. I have no doubt that – much like Terry Francona, whom we hired in Boston after his stint with a losing Phillies club – Dale will go on to great success with his next team. We had hoped Dale would grow with our organization to see it through the building phase to a period of sustained excellence; instead, I believe Dale, who felt the weight of losing perhaps more than any of us, will grow because of this experience and find excellence elsewhere."

"Today’s decision to pursue a new manager was not made because of wins and losses," Epstein continued. "Our record is a function of our long-term building plan and the moves we have made – some good, a few we would like back – to further this strategy. Jed and I take full responsibility for that. Today’s decision was absolutely not made to provide a scapegoat for our shortcomings or to distract from our biggest issue – a shortage of talent at the major league level. We have been transparent about what we are, and what we are not yet. Today’s decision, which was painful for all of us, was made to move us closer to fulfilling our ultimate long-term vision for the Cubs.

"Soon, our organization will transition from a phase in which we have been primarily acquiring young talent to a phase in which we will promote many of our best prospects and actually field a very young, very talented club at the major league level. The losing has been hard on all of us, but we now have one of the top farm systems in baseball, some of the very best prospects in the game, and a clear path forward. In order for us to win with this group – and win consistently – we must have the best possible environment for young players to learn, develop and thrive at the major league level. We must have clear and cohesive communication with our players about the most important parts of the game. And – even while the organization takes a patient, long view – we must somehow establish and maintain a galvanized, winning culture around the major league club.

"I believe a dynamic new voice – and the energy, creativity and freshness that comes with this type of change – provides us with the best opportunity to achieve the major league environment we seek. We will begin our search immediately – a process which will be completed before the GM meetings in early November and perhaps much sooner. There are no absolute criteria, but we will prioritize managerial or other on-field leadership experience and we will prioritize expertise developing young talent. We have not yet contacted any candidates or asked permission to speak with any candidates, but that process will begin tomorrow morning."

[CBStew]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

It's a very rational act if they think they can get Joe Girardi, or Mike Scioscia, or another highly-qualified, experienced, successful manager who they're satisfied can do a better job of developing all of their young talent during the critical next few years -- and win with them -- than Sveum could have done.

Here's Theo's explanation. You can decide for yourself if you buy it or not, but it doesn't strike me as irrational.

"I have a lot of admiration for Dale personally, and we all learned a lot from the way he has handled the trying circumstances of the last two years, especially the last two weeks, with strength and dignity," Epstein said in a statement.

"In his own authentic and understated way, Dale always put the team first and never complained about the hand he was dealt. He and his staff helped us excel in game planning and defensive positioning, contributed to the emergence of several players, and helped put us in position to make some important trades. I have no doubt that – much like Terry Francona, whom we hired in Boston after his stint with a losing Phillies club – Dale will go on to great success with his next team. We had hoped Dale would grow with our organization to see it through the building phase to a period of sustained excellence; instead, I believe Dale, who felt the weight of losing perhaps more than any of us, will grow because of this experience and find excellence elsewhere."

"Today's decision to pursue a new manager was not made because of wins and losses," Epstein continued. "Our record is a function of our long-term building plan and the moves we have made – some good, a few we would like back – to further this strategy. Jed and I take full responsibility for that. Today's decision was absolutely not made to provide a scapegoat for our shortcomings or to distract from our biggest issue – a shortage of talent at the major league level. We have been transparent about what we are, and what we are not yet. Today's decision, which was painful for all of us, was made to move us closer to fulfilling our ultimate long-term vision for the Cubs.

"Soon, our organization will transition from a phase in which we have been primarily acquiring young talent to a phase in which we will promote many of our best prospects and actually field a very young, very talented club at the major league level. The losing has been hard on all of us, but we now have one of the top farm systems in baseball, some of the very best prospects in the game, and a clear path forward. In order for us to win with this group – and win consistently – we must have the best possible environment for young players to learn, develop and thrive at the major league level. We must have clear and cohesive communication with our players about the most important parts of the game. And – even while the organization takes a patient, long view – we must somehow establish and maintain a galvanized, winning culture around the major league club.

"I believe a dynamic new voice – and the energy, creativity and freshness that comes with this type of change – provides us with the best opportunity to achieve the major league environment we seek. We will begin our search immediately – a process which will be completed before the GM meetings in early November and perhaps much sooner. There are no absolute criteria, but we will prioritize managerial or other on-field leadership experience and we will prioritize expertise developing young talent. We have not yet contacted any candidates or asked permission to speak with any candidates, but that process will begin tomorrow morning."

In all due respect, Shakespeare said it pretty well:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing." — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28)

[Saul Goodman]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

It's a very rational act if they think they can get Joe Girardi, or Mike Scioscia, or another highly-qualified, experienced, successful manager who they're satisfied can do a better job of developing all of their young talent during the critical next few years -- and win with them -- than Sveum could have done.

Here's Theo's explanation. You can decide for yourself if you buy it or not, but it doesn't strike me as irrational.

"I have a lot of admiration for Dale personally, and we all learned a lot from the way he has handled the trying circumstances of the last two years, especially the last two weeks, with strength and dignity," Epstein said in a statement.

"In his own authentic and understated way, Dale always put the team first and never complained about the hand he was dealt. He and his staff helped us excel in game planning and defensive positioning, contributed to the emergence of several players, and helped put us in position to make some important trades. I have no doubt that – much like Terry Francona, whom we hired in Boston after his stint with a losing Phillies club – Dale will go on to great success with his next team. We had hoped Dale would grow with our organization to see it through the building phase to a period of sustained excellence; instead, I believe Dale, who felt the weight of losing perhaps more than any of us, will grow because of this experience and find excellence elsewhere."

"Today's decision to pursue a new manager was not made because of wins and losses," Epstein continued. "Our record is a function of our long-term building plan and the moves we have made – some good, a few we would like back – to further this strategy. Jed and I take full responsibility for that. Today's decision was absolutely not made to provide a scapegoat for our shortcomings or to distract from our biggest issue – a shortage of talent at the major league level. We have been transparent about what we are, and what we are not yet. Today's decision, which was painful for all of us, was made to move us closer to fulfilling our ultimate long-term vision for the Cubs.

"Soon, our organization will transition from a phase in which we have been primarily acquiring young talent to a phase in which we will promote many of our best prospects and actually field a very young, very talented club at the major league level. The losing has been hard on all of us, but we now have one of the top farm systems in baseball, some of the very best prospects in the game, and a clear path forward. In order for us to win with this group – and win consistently – we must have the best possible environment for young players to learn, develop and thrive at the major league level. We must have clear and cohesive communication with our players about the most important parts of the game. And – even while the organization takes a patient, long view – we must somehow establish and maintain a galvanized, winning culture around the major league club.

"I believe a dynamic new voice – and the energy, creativity and freshness that comes with this type of change – provides us with the best opportunity to achieve the major league environment we seek. We will begin our search immediately – a process which will be completed before the GM meetings in early November and perhaps much sooner. There are no absolute criteria, but we will prioritize managerial or other on-field leadership experience and we will prioritize expertise developing young talent. We have not yet contacted any candidates or asked permission to speak with any candidates, but that process will begin tomorrow morning."

In all due respect, Shakespeare said it pretty well:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing." — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28)

Okay then.

[Internet Apex]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

It's a very rational act if they think they can get Joe Girardi, or Mike Scioscia, or another highly-qualified, experienced, successful manager who they're satisfied can do a better job of developing all of their young talent during the critical next few years -- and win with them -- than Sveum could have done.

Here's Theo's explanation. You can decide for yourself if you buy it or not, but it doesn't strike me as irrational.

"I have a lot of admiration for Dale personally, and we all learned a lot from the way he has handled the trying circumstances of the last two years, especially the last two weeks, with strength and dignity," Epstein said in a statement.

"In his own authentic and understated way, Dale always put the team first and never complained about the hand he was dealt. He and his staff helped us excel in game planning and defensive positioning, contributed to the emergence of several players, and helped put us in position to make some important trades. I have no doubt that – much like Terry Francona, whom we hired in Boston after his stint with a losing Phillies club – Dale will go on to great success with his next team. We had hoped Dale would grow with our organization to see it through the building phase to a period of sustained excellence; instead, I believe Dale, who felt the weight of losing perhaps more than any of us, will grow because of this experience and find excellence elsewhere."

"Today's decision to pursue a new manager was not made because of wins and losses," Epstein continued. "Our record is a function of our long-term building plan and the moves we have made – some good, a few we would like back – to further this strategy. Jed and I take full responsibility for that. Today's decision was absolutely not made to provide a scapegoat for our shortcomings or to distract from our biggest issue – a shortage of talent at the major league level. We have been transparent about what we are, and what we are not yet. Today's decision, which was painful for all of us, was made to move us closer to fulfilling our ultimate long-term vision for the Cubs.

"Soon, our organization will transition from a phase in which we have been primarily acquiring young talent to a phase in which we will promote many of our best prospects and actually field a very young, very talented club at the major league level. The losing has been hard on all of us, but we now have one of the top farm systems in baseball, some of the very best prospects in the game, and a clear path forward. In order for us to win with this group – and win consistently – we must have the best possible environment for young players to learn, develop and thrive at the major league level. We must have clear and cohesive communication with our players about the most important parts of the game. And – even while the organization takes a patient, long view – we must somehow establish and maintain a galvanized, winning culture around the major league club.

"I believe a dynamic new voice – and the energy, creativity and freshness that comes with this type of change – provides us with the best opportunity to achieve the major league environment we seek. We will begin our search immediately – a process which will be completed before the GM meetings in early November and perhaps much sooner. There are no absolute criteria, but we will prioritize managerial or other on-field leadership experience and we will prioritize expertise developing young talent. We have not yet contacted any candidates or asked permission to speak with any candidates, but that process will begin tomorrow morning."

In all due respect, Shakespeare said it pretty well:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing." — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28)

Or it could signify that they already have found the guy they want and that he may be available now but not later.

[Quality Start Machine]

If the front office wants us to accept the fact that entire seasons can be thrown away for the sake of the "future", then why does it matter who the manager is?  Sveum's firing is an irrational act.  Totally out of character for Epstein/Hoyer.

Unless he lost his clubhouse. Neither Kevin Gregg nor Edwin Jackson have ever lost their shit at managers like that before. If you've got an environment where veterans like that are blasting their manager, you don't want to bring young guys into that.

Sveum took a roster where anybody who wasn't part of the long term plan that could be traded was, and Jepstink knew they were playing for a draft slot. Whatever rationale there was for firing Sveum wasn't predicated on wins and losses.

Congrats on being the first person to suggest Sveum was fired because he upset kevin gregg.

Not Gregg per se, just a couple veteran players who have never done this sort of thing before.