What the Bears (and fans) can REALLY learn from the Packers

[Tony]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

[Andy]

According to experts there won't be football until like 2016 so the Bears have lots of time to find offensive linemen.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

I think in short, No. 2. Fuck you, meatballs. The 1985 Bears aren't coming back. Dick Butkus never played in a playoff game. The Bears' success under Angelo/Lovie Smith compares well to any of the other Chicago teams and at least one (and allegedly two) have won world titles during this time. Angelo hasn't been a draft-day world-beater but he hasn't been Millenesque either.

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism. I just won't. Everything else you said = THI

I think he's been pretty close to Millenesque too. But yeah, the rest of it was pretty spot on, TJ.

I won't go there. Hendry-esque, let's say. He's better than Mark Hatley too. Just heard on the score that Chester Taylor is getting cut. Money was sunk on he and that fat turd Manu while only a 7th-round draft pick was added to the smoldering shit pile of an O-Line.

*Waits for it*

(||)

Just when you found yourself hoping you'd seen the last of Chester Taylor in the Bears' backfield...

Who was hoping for that again? Chuck?

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

I think "Hendry-esque" is the perfect descriptor.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

I think "Hendry-esque" is the perfect descriptor.

I think Hendry's worse.

[BBM]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

How do you suck scrotum when you're career is nearly ended by a horrific knee injury?

[R-V]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

I think "Hendry-esque" is the perfect descriptor.

I think Hendry's worse.

Hendry's had 8 full seasons and has 3 playoff appearances under his extended belt. That puts Hendry's playoff plus-minus at a -2.

Angelo's had 10 seasons and 4 playoff appearances, so he's also at a -2.

They're the same.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

I think "Hendry-esque" is the perfect descriptor.

I think Hendry's worse.

Hendry's had 8 full seasons and has 3 playoff appearances under his extended belt. That puts Hendry's playoff plus-minus at a -2.

Angelo's had 10 seasons and 4 playoff appearances, so he's also at a -2.

They're the same.

Can't argue with Phil Rogers' logic.

[Eli]

The Cutler trade was fucking epic

But was it really? With the two first-rounders he gave up, Angelo could have taken Clay Matthews in 2009 and he could have taken Dez Bryant in 2010.  And no doubt he would have picked both of those guys at those slots, since that is the obvious move.  I don't know about you, but I'd rather have Orton, Matthews and Bryant than just Cutler, especially since it would have kept the Packers from drafting Matthews.  In fact, if Angelo doesn't make the Cutler trade, the Packers don't get Matthews and probably don't win the Super Bowl this year.  Then again, you're a Packers fan, so no wonder you thought the Cutler trade was epic: It practically handed a Super Bowl title to the Packers.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

The Cutler trade was fucking epic

But was it really? With the two first-rounders he gave up, Angelo could have taken Clay Matthews in 2009 and he could have taken Dez Bryant in 2010.  And no doubt he would have picked both of those guys at those slots, since that is the obvious move.  I don't know about you, but I'd rather have Orton, Matthews and Bryant than just Cutler, especially since it would have kept the Packers from drafting Matthews.  In fact, if Angelo doesn't make the Cutler trade, the Packers don't get Matthews and probably don't win the Super Bowl this year.  Then again, you're a Packers fan, so no wonder you thought the Cutler trade was epic: It practically handed a Super Bowl title to the Packers.

Well done.

No but seriously.  The Cutler trade covers a lot of Jerry Angelo's sins.  We got ourselves a real quarterback, ma!

[Tony]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

For some reason Bazuin bothers me the most. I don't remember DE being a need at the time.

I forgot to mention Forte, and that's another really good pick. He's been pretty damn good in free agency too, when not influenced by Lovie or Martz. The Cutler trade was epic, and the Ogunleye trade was OK. Peppers was an obvious move, but he did it so I give him credit. And he did build the Super Bowl offensive line with solid free agents.

So yeah, it's not fair to call him Millenesque. Hendry is actually a pretty good comparison.

[Brownie]

Sometimes his best moves are the ones you don't make. Bernard Berrian, anyone? And where Angelo gets a slight edge over Hendry is that his sins (Adam Archuleta leaps to mind) seem to be very erasable.

[Internet Apex]

I won't stand for any Angelo apologism.

You should sit down then.

Angelo's made some head-scratching decisions but, on balance, I don't think he's as bad as some people characterize.

He's had some big hits...Hester, P'nut, Briggs, pre-injury Tommie.....but DAN BAZUIN!

Bazuin's not even the worst is he?

Angelo also burned a first round pick on Michael Haynes, a third rounder on the 3 foot, 2 inch Garrett Wolfe...hell his first first-round pick was Marc Columbo, who sucked the scrotum off of a dead hyena before getting his shit straight elsewhere...so I'm not ignoring the mistake he's made, but in addition to the draft picks you mention, the John Tait signing was solid, the Cutler trade was fucking epic, drafting Matt Forte who increasingly looks capable of becoming a top-tiered RB was solid.  He went out and landed Julius Peppers.  Hell, though he played below his potential much of the time, Ogunleye still gave the defense some good production during their Super Bowl run, and he was had for a third-rate receiver who did nothing before coming back.  The Bears have won 4 division titles in Angelo's ten years.  Like I said, he's not great by any stretch, but he's not awful either.

For some reason Bazuin bothers me the most. I don't remember DE being a need at the time.

I forgot to mention Forte, and that's another really good pick. He's been pretty damn good in free agency too, when not influenced by Lovie or Martz. The Cutler trade was epic, and the Ogunleye trade was OK. Peppers was an obvious move, but he did it so I give him credit. And he did build the Super Bowl offensive line with solid free agents.

So yeah, it's not fair to call him Millenesque. Hendry is actually a pretty good comparison.

I think that Peppers said he really wanted to play in Chicago for Lovie and Marinelli. He could have been lying and all about his paper regardless of the coach or system. But for a guy who had a reputation for being a lazy, malcontent at times he certainly showed no signs of that here. So, Lovie's influence in free agency isn't that bad considering it helped land the best free agent signing of Angelo's tenure. And without Martz, they may not have gotten that big, white Canadian dude yesterday to help out on the blue line.

[SKO]

Angelo is far from Millenesque,  but I wholeheartedly disagree with his approach to the offensive line. Teams like the Patriots and Colts have done pretty well drafting linemen in the middle-to-late rounds, but in general I think it's an offensive lineman should be one of a team's top three picks damn near every year. It's a position where players can get old or injured fast and it can fuck an entire season. You need depth. Angelo just patches and repatches and he lucked into Tait and Miller and Brown all having 2-3 good years well after everyone else thought they were done. You can't rely on finding your left tackle in free agency and just holding your breath for a few years. Look at the Jets. Ferguson and Mangold were first round picks in back-to-back years. Then they signed Faneca to play guard and drafted Slausen to develop behind him. Faneca gave them a few good years and they were able to throw him overboard when the new guy was ready and cheaper. That line's paved the way for one of the league's best rushing attacks for the last three years and it's allowed them to get to back-to-back AFC Championship games with Mark F*&king Sanchez. They can tinker a little bit with the right side of the offensive line because they know that the interior and the blind side are taken care of.

Meanwhile, Angelo signs three very old, possibly over the hill linemen in Tait, Miller, and Brown, then gets a few good years out of them and doesn't say "damn, this bought me some time, I should draft some depth" but instead says "Sure, an offensive line with the average age of 34 should hold out for awhile."

The rest of TJ's analysis is spot on, although I've bitterly argued before that Aaron Rodgers' offensive line last year was still a hell of a lot better than what Cutler has had to deal with. Sack totals aren't everything. Green Bay last year had a far, far better rushing attack than Chicago did last year despite McCarthy often abandoning it at the drop of a hat, and Rodgers attempted a shit ton of deep balls. He got sacked a lot early, but that team was rolling by the time they got to the playoffs. I know the Bears offensive line "improved" in the second half this year, but we also know a lot of that had to do with Martz simply abandoning any hope of going deep for a 4-5 game stretch while things got straightend out. The Packers never did that.