Theo Epstein Sploosh Thread

[CBStew]

Anyone else disturbed by this (paraphrased) quote? Have Theo & Jed been getting moving targets for spending for the near future?

I think we'll know more after this offseason and whether they're able to pay up for Choo or Tanaka. From what has been said, I'm not really counting on it, so 2014 will be another rough year. I think most people expect that at this point.

And if we're being realistic, a lack of veteran signings this offseason probably doesn't bode too well for 2015 either. They need several guys who can post 4-5 win seasons to make the jump into 90-win territory (they currently have zero guys like that, with Rizzo as the best possibility). As excited as we are about Baez, Bryant and the other young guys, they're probably not going to come straight up from the minors and dominate.

I do like where their heads are at though. There simply aren't names on the market that you can pay and get those 5 wins, or what have you. They don't exist. The only guys hitting free agency now are old and expensive. Good pieces to wealthy clubs who need to patch up holes to contend. Not super helpful to teams that need to fix almost everything at the major league level.

It'd be great if they got Tanaka but somehow I'm just not picturing that happening.

I'm fine with a third shitty season so long as we're at least seeing one or two of the kids beyond the All-Star Break, and am okay with another struggling team in '15 if they're all up.  I have fond memories of 1987/1988.

Just curious, if someone had told you when Epstein was hired in 2011 that the first truly competitive team would come in 2016, would you have been disappointed?

I would probably have gone along with it at the time just because what other choice did I have other than to throw my lot in with Theo's, but that's not to say it'd be any easier.  I went into the last 2 years with zero expectations and thus have no had no emotional investment in this team.  But I don't know, now, if I can do 2 more years.  Then again, if they're trending upward--which you should be able to see by 2015, then I'm fine, I guess.

The problem, for me, will manifest if they start calling these top prospects up and it becomes clear that most of them can't play. My level of trust depends on several of these guys panning out. If that doesn't happen, they won't trend upward by 2015 and then they'll start signing big money free agents in an attempt to save their phony baloney jobs. At that point I may give up on the sport indefinitely.

I want to print this reply out and hang it on the wall in my office.

I think pex brings up a good point and we're mostly afraid to talk about it. I know the whole reason behind accumulating as many prospects as the Cubs have is that it's a guarantee that some will be busts. It's more likely they'll all be busts than a few of them will be superstars.

Then again, you look at the Royals and I don't know if any of those young players are superstars. But that's a good ballclub and if you were to add even a handful of veterans and one blockbuster free-agent, something KC probably can't do, they'd be good to go. The Yankees had 5-7 guys come up and play at a superstar level and they built around that for going on 15 years. If it's unrealistic to expect that, just give me a 25-man Eric Hosmer roster and let's drink to their health.

The Giants won two World Series with some very (VERY!) good pitching but no superstar position players.

[Eli]

Anyone else disturbed by this (paraphrased) quote? Have Theo & Jed been getting moving targets for spending for the near future?

I think we'll know more after this offseason and whether they're able to pay up for Choo or Tanaka. From what has been said, I'm not really counting on it, so 2014 will be another rough year. I think most people expect that at this point.

And if we're being realistic, a lack of veteran signings this offseason probably doesn't bode too well for 2015 either. They need several guys who can post 4-5 win seasons to make the jump into 90-win territory (they currently have zero guys like that, with Rizzo as the best possibility). As excited as we are about Baez, Bryant and the other young guys, they're probably not going to come straight up from the minors and dominate.

I do like where their heads are at though. There simply aren't names on the market that you can pay and get those 5 wins, or what have you. They don't exist. The only guys hitting free agency now are old and expensive. Good pieces to wealthy clubs who need to patch up holes to contend. Not super helpful to teams that need to fix almost everything at the major league level.

It'd be great if they got Tanaka but somehow I'm just not picturing that happening.

I'm fine with a third shitty season so long as we're at least seeing one or two of the kids beyond the All-Star Break, and am okay with another struggling team in '15 if they're all up.  I have fond memories of 1987/1988.

Just curious, if someone had told you when Epstein was hired in 2011 that the first truly competitive team would come in 2016, would you have been disappointed?

I would probably have gone along with it at the time just because what other choice did I have other than to throw my lot in with Theo's, but that's not to say it'd be any easier.  I went into the last 2 years with zero expectations and thus have no had no emotional investment in this team.  But I don't know, now, if I can do 2 more years.  Then again, if they're trending upward--which you should be able to see by 2015, then I'm fine, I guess.

The problem, for me, will manifest if they start calling these top prospects up and it becomes clear that most of them can't play. My level of trust depends on several of these guys panning out. If that doesn't happen, they won't trend upward by 2015 and then they'll start signing big money free agents in an attempt to save their phony baloney jobs. At that point I may give up on the sport indefinitely.

I want to print this reply out and hang it on the wall in my office.

I think pex brings up a good point and we're mostly afraid to talk about it. I know the whole reason behind accumulating as many prospects as the Cubs have is that it's a guarantee that some will be busts. It's more likely they'll all be busts than a few of them will be superstars.

Then again, you look at the Royals and I don't know if any of those young players are superstars. But that's a good ballclub and if you were to add even a handful of veterans and one blockbuster free-agent, something KC probably can't do, they'd be good to go. The Yankees had 5-7 guys come up and play at a superstar level and they built around that for going on 15 years. If it's unrealistic to expect that, just give me a 25-man Eric Hosmer roster and let's drink to their health.

The Giants won two World Series with some very (VERY!) good pitching but no superstar position players.

Buster Posey won the MVP.

[Saul Goodman]

Anyone else disturbed by this (paraphrased) quote? Have Theo & Jed been getting moving targets for spending for the near future?

I think we'll know more after this offseason and whether they're able to pay up for Choo or Tanaka. From what has been said, I'm not really counting on it, so 2014 will be another rough year. I think most people expect that at this point.

And if we're being realistic, a lack of veteran signings this offseason probably doesn't bode too well for 2015 either. They need several guys who can post 4-5 win seasons to make the jump into 90-win territory (they currently have zero guys like that, with Rizzo as the best possibility). As excited as we are about Baez, Bryant and the other young guys, they're probably not going to come straight up from the minors and dominate.

I do like where their heads are at though. There simply aren't names on the market that you can pay and get those 5 wins, or what have you. They don't exist. The only guys hitting free agency now are old and expensive. Good pieces to wealthy clubs who need to patch up holes to contend. Not super helpful to teams that need to fix almost everything at the major league level.

It'd be great if they got Tanaka but somehow I'm just not picturing that happening.

I'm fine with a third shitty season so long as we're at least seeing one or two of the kids beyond the All-Star Break, and am okay with another struggling team in '15 if they're all up.  I have fond memories of 1987/1988.

Just curious, if someone had told you when Epstein was hired in 2011 that the first truly competitive team would come in 2016, would you have been disappointed?

I would probably have gone along with it at the time just because what other choice did I have other than to throw my lot in with Theo's, but that's not to say it'd be any easier.  I went into the last 2 years with zero expectations and thus have no had no emotional investment in this team.  But I don't know, now, if I can do 2 more years.  Then again, if they're trending upward--which you should be able to see by 2015, then I'm fine, I guess.

The problem, for me, will manifest if they start calling these top prospects up and it becomes clear that most of them can't play. My level of trust depends on several of these guys panning out. If that doesn't happen, they won't trend upward by 2015 and then they'll start signing big money free agents in an attempt to save their phony baloney jobs. At that point I may give up on the sport indefinitely.

I want to print this reply out and hang it on the wall in my office.

I think pex brings up a good point and we're mostly afraid to talk about it. I know the whole reason behind accumulating as many prospects as the Cubs have is that it's a guarantee that some will be busts. It's more likely they'll all be busts than a few of them will be superstars.

Then again, you look at the Royals and I don't know if any of those young players are superstars. But that's a good ballclub and if you were to add even a handful of veterans and one blockbuster free-agent, something KC probably can't do, they'd be good to go. The Yankees had 5-7 guys come up and play at a superstar level and they built around that for going on 15 years. If it's unrealistic to expect that, just give me a 25-man Eric Hosmer roster and let's drink to their health.

The Giants won two World Series with some very (VERY!) good pitching but no superstar position players.

Buster Posey won the MVP.

Pablo Sandoval probably isn't a "superstar," but he comes a lot closer than, say, Aubrey Huff or Marco Scutaro.  Posey definitely is.

[Slaky]

That Giants story is like the White Sox 2005 myth when they (allegedly) won a trophy. Ozzieball! Moving runners over!

Nope. Unhittable starting pitching and bullpen plus lots of homers.

[CBStew]

Anyone else disturbed by this (paraphrased) quote? Have Theo & Jed been getting moving targets for spending for the near future?

I think we'll know more after this offseason and whether they're able to pay up for Choo or Tanaka. From what has been said, I'm not really counting on it, so 2014 will be another rough year. I think most people expect that at this point.

And if we're being realistic, a lack of veteran signings this offseason probably doesn't bode too well for 2015 either. They need several guys who can post 4-5 win seasons to make the jump into 90-win territory (they currently have zero guys like that, with Rizzo as the best possibility). As excited as we are about Baez, Bryant and the other young guys, they're probably not going to come straight up from the minors and dominate.

I do like where their heads are at though. There simply aren't names on the market that you can pay and get those 5 wins, or what have you. They don't exist. The only guys hitting free agency now are old and expensive. Good pieces to wealthy clubs who need to patch up holes to contend. Not super helpful to teams that need to fix almost everything at the major league level.

It'd be great if they got Tanaka but somehow I'm just not picturing that happening.

I'm fine with a third shitty season so long as we're at least seeing one or two of the kids beyond the All-Star Break, and am okay with another struggling team in '15 if they're all up.  I have fond memories of 1987/1988.

Just curious, if someone had told you when Epstein was hired in 2011 that the first truly competitive team would come in 2016, would you have been disappointed?

I would probably have gone along with it at the time just because what other choice did I have other than to throw my lot in with Theo's, but that's not to say it'd be any easier.  I went into the last 2 years with zero expectations and thus have no had no emotional investment in this team.  But I don't know, now, if I can do 2 more years.  Then again, if they're trending upward--which you should be able to see by 2015, then I'm fine, I guess.

The problem, for me, will manifest if they start calling these top prospects up and it becomes clear that most of them can't play. My level of trust depends on several of these guys panning out. If that doesn't happen, they won't trend upward by 2015 and then they'll start signing big money free agents in an attempt to save their phony baloney jobs. At that point I may give up on the sport indefinitely.

I want to print this reply out and hang it on the wall in my office.

I think pex brings up a good point and we're mostly afraid to talk about it. I know the whole reason behind accumulating as many prospects as the Cubs have is that it's a guarantee that some will be busts. It's more likely they'll all be busts than a few of them will be superstars.

Then again, you look at the Royals and I don't know if any of those young players are superstars. But that's a good ballclub and if you were to add even a handful of veterans and one blockbuster free-agent, something KC probably can't do, they'd be good to go. The Yankees had 5-7 guys come up and play at a superstar level and they built around that for going on 15 years. If it's unrealistic to expect that, just give me a 25-man Eric Hosmer roster and let's drink to their health.

The Giants won two World Series with some very (VERY!) good pitching but no superstar position players.

Buster Posey won the MVP.

A matter of opinion.

[morpheus]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

[BH]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

[PenFoe]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

"I don't point to a single mistake he's made in Chicago, but he had a big payroll in Boston, so he's a huge fraud."

[Eli]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

[Slaky]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

But after just two years of the all-great and all-powerful Theo, the only goat is a gullible nation of Cubs fans.

[CT III]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

Exactly, NOTHING.

[SKO]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

Exactly, NOTHING.

Was Youkilis already in the farm system when Epstink arrived? Because he was pretty decent there for awhile.

[ChuckD]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

Yeah, but aside from drafting and developing those two MVPs, those two front of the rotation starters, Jonathan Papelbon, some other decent guys like Josh Redick, Jed Lowrie, and Justin Masterson (who you later traded basically straight up for Victor Martinez), signing Xander Bogaerts, and hiring Terry Francona after he was run out of Philadelphia ... what the fuck else did you and your boy toy Jed Hoyer do in Boston?

[SKO]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

Yeah, but aside from drafting and developing those two MVPs, those two front of the rotation starters, Jonathan Papelbon, some other decent guys like Josh Redick, Jed Lowrie, and Justin Masterson (who you later traded basically straight up for Victor Martinez), signing Xander Bogaerts, and hiring Terry Francona after he was run out of Philadelphia ... what the fuck else did you and your boy toy Jed Hoyer do in Boston?

Well he doesn't get credit for Papi falling out of the sky. This is established.

[ChuckD]

DOOM! http://www.majoronions.com/plain-simple-theo-epstein-baseballs-biggest-fraud/

"but outside of Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz – where was all this player development in Beantown that the boy genius talks about?"

Outside of those great players, what you got Theo?

Jacoby Ellsbury.

Yeah, but aside from drafting and developing those two MVPs, those two front of the rotation starters, Jonathan Papelbon, some other decent guys like Josh Redick, Jed Lowrie, and Justin Masterson (who you later traded basically straight up for Victor Martinez), signing Xander Bogaerts, and hiring Terry Francona after he was run out of Philadelphia ... what the fuck else did you and your boy toy Jed Hoyer do in Boston?

Well he doesn't get credit for Papi falling out of the sky. This is established.

Same goes for signing Schilling. And Keith Foulke and Mike Timlin. And Doug Mientkiewicz, Kevin Millar, Bill Mueller, Mark Bellhorn, Pokey Reese, Gabe Kapler, Orlando Cabrera, and basically every other position player on the 2004 playoff roster not named Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon, or Jason Varitek. Those guys don't count.