Reasonable Trade Discussion

[Chuck to Chuck]

For some reason it's news that the Cubs have the money to add players.

"There are financial resources if [president of baseball operations] Theo [Epstein] needs money to make a deal," said Crane Kenney. "No one I trust more to figure out what to do [than] Theo and [GM] Jed [Hoyer]."

So cute how Crane thinks he's Theo's boss.

I don't really see how that shows Crane thinks he's Theo's boss. He's the president of business operations, right? That would mean he would have control over payroll considerations. Not necessarily what players are on the team, but "Hey, Theo, we can go up to x million in payroll" or if Theo was looking at trade possibilities and he asked Crane "Hey, kind of flexibility do I have with the payroll this year?"... And I'm pretty sure that's what he said there.

And they probably both know what they were told by Tom Ricketts and when they go ask him for stuff they probably need to be on the same page. Crane may be a pudwhack but I don't really see anything wrong with what he said here.

He exists and therefore Chuck has to bitch about him.

I'm not in on this.

[SKO]

For some reason it's news that the Cubs have the money to add players.

"There are financial resources if [president of baseball operations] Theo [Epstein] needs money to make a deal," said Crane Kenney. "No one I trust more to figure out what to do [than] Theo and [GM] Jed [Hoyer]."

So cute how Crane thinks he's Theo's boss.

I don't really see how that shows Crane thinks he's Theo's boss. He's the president of business operations, right? That would mean he would have control over payroll considerations. Not necessarily what players are on the team, but "Hey, Theo, we can go up to x million in payroll" or if Theo was looking at trade possibilities and he asked Crane "Hey, kind of flexibility do I have with the payroll this year?"... And I'm pretty sure that's what he said there.

And they probably both know what they were told by Tom Ricketts and when they go ask him for stuff they probably need to be on the same page. Crane may be a pudwhack but I don't really see anything wrong with what he said here.

He exists and therefore Chuck has to bitch about him.

I'm not in on this.

Oh wow, you're right, you didn't start it. I saw bitching about Crane and then blacked out and assumed it was you. My bad.

[Chuck to Chuck]

For some reason it's news that the Cubs have the money to add players.

"There are financial resources if [president of baseball operations] Theo [Epstein] needs money to make a deal," said Crane Kenney. "No one I trust more to figure out what to do [than] Theo and [GM] Jed [Hoyer]."

So cute how Crane thinks he's Theo's boss.

I don't really see how that shows Crane thinks he's Theo's boss. He's the president of business operations, right? That would mean he would have control over payroll considerations. Not necessarily what players are on the team, but "Hey, Theo, we can go up to x million in payroll" or if Theo was looking at trade possibilities and he asked Crane "Hey, kind of flexibility do I have with the payroll this year?"... And I'm pretty sure that's what he said there.

And they probably both know what they were told by Tom Ricketts and when they go ask him for stuff they probably need to be on the same page. Crane may be a pudwhack but I don't really see anything wrong with what he said here.

He exists and therefore Chuck has to bitch about him.

I'm not in on this.

Oh wow, you're right, you didn't start it. I saw bitching about Crane and then blacked out and assumed it was you. My bad.

Crane does have a competency factor: Real estate law and media law.  I give him that.  Gordo has nothing.

[SKO]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

[Eli]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

[SKO]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

Pierce Johnson, maybe? A starting pitching prospect would probably fatten the deal. I don't know that I'd want the Cubs to go any higher than the names I threw out as far as hitters go (although you could throw Mendy in there as well) for Snork, but I get wanting a starter prospect if you are trading away a starter.

[Eli]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

Pierce Johnson, maybe? A starting pitching prospect would probably fatten the deal. I don't know that I'd want the Cubs to go any higher than the names I threw out as far as hitters go (although you could throw Mendy in there as well) for Snork, but I get wanting a starter prospect if you are trading away a starter.

I think McKinney is probably a more likely starting point for a discussion. I don't think a collection of Cubs flotsam is going to get it done.

[SKO]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

Pierce Johnson, maybe? A starting pitching prospect would probably fatten the deal. I don't know that I'd want the Cubs to go any higher than the names I threw out as far as hitters go (although you could throw Mendy in there as well) for Snork, but I get wanting a starter prospect if you are trading away a starter.

I think McKinney is probably a more likely starting point for a discussion. I don't think a collection of Cubs flotsam is going to get it done.

I don't think Vogelbach is flotsam if you're talking to an AL team, and Zagunis seems like he could be a potential big league outfielder someday, but yeah you're probably right. Is it weird that I was cool with trading McKinney for Kazmir before all Kazmir's injuries but I don't like the idea of trading him for Snork? That's probably weird.

[Saul Goodman]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

Pierce Johnson, maybe? A starting pitching prospect would probably fatten the deal. I don't know that I'd want the Cubs to go any higher than the names I threw out as far as hitters go (although you could throw Mendy in there as well) for Snork, but I get wanting a starter prospect if you are trading away a starter.

I think McKinney is probably a more likely starting point for a discussion. I don't think a collection of Cubs flotsam is going to get it done.

In that scenario, I'd say screw the Sox, then, unless they're ready to talk Chris Sale. Don't cash in your chips for half a season of Jeff Samardzija when your best case scenario for that half season is the SeligCard play-in and there are other starters available on the market.

[SKO]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

Pierce Johnson, maybe? A starting pitching prospect would probably fatten the deal. I don't know that I'd want the Cubs to go any higher than the names I threw out as far as hitters go (although you could throw Mendy in there as well) for Snork, but I get wanting a starter prospect if you are trading away a starter.

I think McKinney is probably a more likely starting point for a discussion. I don't think a collection of Cubs flotsam is going to get it done.

In that scenario, I'd say screw the Sox, then, unless they're ready to talk Chris Sale. Don't cash in your chips for half a season of Jeff Samardzija when your best case scenario for that half season is the SeligCard play-in and there are other starters available on the market.

On the other hand, "he was traded twice for Jeff Samardzija" would be a nice bit of trivia about Billy McKinney after he's drank himself to an early grave for being known as the guy traded twice for Jeff Samardzija.

[Eli]

In that scenario, I'd say screw the Sox, then, unless they're ready to talk Chris Sale. Don't cash in your chips for half a season of Jeff Samardzija when your best case scenario for that half season is the SeligCard play-in and there are other starters available on the market.

Trading Billy McKinney isn't really "cashing in your chips." He's a nice enough prospect but you're probably not talking about a future star here. The Cubs have like 5 potential left-field options in the coming years. That's the benefit of a deep farm system -- you can trade the McKinneys of the world for actual major-league talent and not lose sleep over it.

And Samardzija (theoretically) helps ensure that you actually make the SeligCard, he provides depth in case something happens to Arrieta/Lester/Hammel/Hendricks, he's a potential weapon out of the bullpen if you get deeper into the playoffs, etc. There's benefit beyond just having a better guy take the hill every 5th day.

Again, who knows who the Sox actually want. I was just speculating.

[InternetApex]

In that scenario, I'd say screw the Sox, then, unless they're ready to talk Chris Sale. Don't cash in your chips for half a season of Jeff Samardzija when your best case scenario for that half season is the SeligCard play-in and there are other starters available on the market.

Trading Billy McKinney isn't really "cashing in your chips." He's a nice enough prospect but you're probably not talking about a future star here. The Cubs have like 5 potential left-field options in the coming years. That's the benefit of a deep farm system -- you can trade the McKinneys of the world for actual major-league talent and not lose sleep over it.

And Samardzija (theoretically) helps ensure that you actually make the SeligCard, he provides depth in case something happens to Arrieta/Lester/Hammel/Hendricks, he's a potential weapon out of the bullpen if you get deeper into the playoffs, etc. There's benefit beyond just having a better guy take the hill every 5th day.

Again, who knows who the Sox actually want. I was just speculating.

I would trade Murton 2.0 to the Sox in a three-way deal that ensured Snork went somewhere other than here. That's how deep the Cubs' farm system is and how much I don't want either player on the big league club.

Team A gets: Snork
White Sox get: Whoever the fuck, Mckinney
Cubs get: PNNSTBNL

[Eli]

In that scenario, I'd say screw the Sox, then, unless they're ready to talk Chris Sale. Don't cash in your chips for half a season of Jeff Samardzija when your best case scenario for that half season is the SeligCard play-in and there are other starters available on the market.

Trading Billy McKinney isn't really "cashing in your chips." He's a nice enough prospect but you're probably not talking about a future star here. The Cubs have like 5 potential left-field options in the coming years. That's the benefit of a deep farm system -- you can trade the McKinneys of the world for actual major-league talent and not lose sleep over it.

And Samardzija (theoretically) helps ensure that you actually make the SeligCard, he provides depth in case something happens to Arrieta/Lester/Hammel/Hendricks, he's a potential weapon out of the bullpen if you get deeper into the playoffs, etc. There's benefit beyond just having a better guy take the hill every 5th day.

Again, who knows who the Sox actually want. I was just speculating.

I would trade Murton 2.0 to the Sox in a three-way deal that ensured Snork went somewhere other than here. That's how deep the Cubs' farm system is and how much I don't want either player on the big league club.

Team A gets: Snork
White Sox get: Whoever the fuck, Mckinney
Cubs get: PNNSTBNL

I'm starting to think you're racist against redheads.

[SKO]

In that scenario, I'd say screw the Sox, then, unless they're ready to talk Chris Sale. Don't cash in your chips for half a season of Jeff Samardzija when your best case scenario for that half season is the SeligCard play-in and there are other starters available on the market.

Trading Billy McKinney isn't really "cashing in your chips." He's a nice enough prospect but you're probably not talking about a future star here. The Cubs have like 5 potential left-field options in the coming years. That's the benefit of a deep farm system -- you can trade the McKinneys of the world for actual major-league talent and not lose sleep over it.

And Samardzija (theoretically) helps ensure that you actually make the SeligCard, he provides depth in case something happens to Arrieta/Lester/Hammel/Hendricks, he's a potential weapon out of the bullpen if you get deeper into the playoffs, etc. There's benefit beyond just having a better guy take the hill every 5th day.

Again, who knows who the Sox actually want. I was just speculating.

I'm still kind of hoping that the Cubs trade Schwarber and McKinney and some stuff for Hamels, and then use the difference between Hamels salary and the $200 million that a Price or Cueto was going to cost them to sign either Justin Upton to play left or Josh Donaldson to play third (moving Bryant to left). This probably would never happen but in my head it sounds really nice.

[Quality Start Machine]

Cubs receive: Snork
Sox get: Vogelbach, Zagunis, Mike Olt or Christian Villanueva, some young, nowhere near major league ready pitcher with some talent

That fair, or is that NSBB level dumb? They get one future DH in Vogelbach, a legitimate-ish outfield prospect in Zagunis who is blocked in every way in Chicago as long as Bryant/Schwarber/McKinney are all in the org, their pick of two guys who might potentially still be capable of being below average major league third basemen (a vast improvement over what they have there), and an arm because these things always require an arm. Hell they can have Carl Edwards, Jr. and I can enjoy Pen and others freaking out over how getting rid of him like it's difficult to find hard-throwing middle relievers with control issues and injury concerns.

I'm thinking the White Sox would want more than that.

Pierce Johnson, maybe? A starting pitching prospect would probably fatten the deal. I don't know that I'd want the Cubs to go any higher than the names I threw out as far as hitters go (although you could throw Mendy in there as well) for Snork, but I get wanting a starter prospect if you are trading away a starter.

I think McKinney is probably a more likely starting point for a discussion. I don't think a collection of Cubs flotsam is going to get it done.

That's fine, since Happ should leapfrog him in the pecking order fairly quickly.