Reasonable Trade Discussion

[SKO]

The ugh is currently beating the "wow their bullpen is going to be really fucking dominant" but there's no denying this makes them better.

But ugh

Yeah ... but ... 105.

Yeah ... but ... choking a woman.

It's going to be hard for us to make fun of other teams when John Lackey is only our second biggest shitbag.

Yeah I think we've lost the rights to mock the BFIB for awhile if my mentions are any indication of how Cubs fans are going to take this.

I would be lying if I said a small part of me wasn't going to enjoy seeing him pitch for the Cubs. I actually envy the people who can completely divorce players from people. But I'm disappointed nonetheless and I'm really not looking forward to dealing with the neanderthals who actively attack the people who don't just ignore the DV

[ChuckD]

The ugh is currently beating the "wow their bullpen is going to be really fucking dominant" but there's no denying this makes them better.

But ugh

Yeah ... but ... 105.

Yeah ... but ... choking a woman.

I'm going to preface this by saying I ask this with the hope that I don't come across as a wife-beating apologist:

Have you read the police reports and "closeout memo"?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aroldis-chapman-s-girlfriend-alleged-he--choked--her--according-to-police-report-023629095.html
https://www.scribd.com/document/296195124/Aroldis-Chapman-Closeout-Memo

I ask because I hadn't until taking 20-30 minutes to do so tonight. Up until I did, I was more or less of the same mindset -- fuck that guy, he beat his wife.

But, now I'm kind of conflicted.

1) he was never charged, let alone convicted.
2) his girlfriend later changed her account of events to say "...she entered his personal space. Aroldis used his fingers to move her away from him, out of his personal space. She lost her balance and fell."
3) there were ~20 other witnesses (including the victim's brother) in the house at the time and police couldn't get a story that lined up.

Add to that, the story broke when the Ray Rice and Greg Hardy incidents were really fresh, and now I'm wondering if he got unfairly convicted in the court of public opinion because of how hypersensitive everyone was of anything with a sports/domestic violence angle.*

And let me also say, I write this with the full understanding that domestic violence incidents are complicated. And that it's already hard for many women who have been abused to come forward because when it's he-said-she-said everyone kind of throws their hands up in the air. And that victims take back abusers because they love them, or they think they will be loved by them, or that they don't deserve better, or there's a kid involved, or they think that this time will be the last time and they really both do love one another. And that they get really fucking complicated with high-paid athletes like Aroldis since there's a financial incentive to victims to stick it out because having money is better than not having money.

* Note, I'm not saying he's a good person. Or that he doesn't have some major issues -- firing 8 rounds through your garage wall isn't a normal, healthy, responsible way to let off steam. Just that there's no evidence to conclude that he's the monster everyone seems to be saying he is.

[Yeti]

The ugh is currently beating the "wow their bullpen is going to be really fucking dominant" but there's no denying this makes them better.

But ugh

Yeah ... but ... 105.

Yeah ... but ... choking a woman.

I'm going to preface this by saying I ask this with the hope that I don't come across as a wife-beating apologist:

Have you read the police reports and "closeout memo"?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aroldis-chapman-s-girlfriend-alleged-he--choked--her--according-to-police-report-023629095.html
https://www.scribd.com/document/296195124/Aroldis-Chapman-Closeout-Memo

I ask because I hadn't until taking 20-30 minutes to do so tonight. Up until I did, I was more or less of the same mindset -- fuck that guy, he beat his wife.

But, now I'm kind of conflicted.

1) he was never charged, let alone convicted.
2) his girlfriend later changed her account of events to say "...she entered his personal space. Aroldis used his fingers to move her away from him, out of his personal space. She lost her balance and fell."
3) there were ~20 other witnesses (including the victim's brother) in the house at the time and police couldn't get a story that lined up.

Add to that, the story broke when the Ray Rice and Greg Hardy incidents were really fresh, and now I'm wondering if he got unfairly convicted in the court of public opinion because of how hypersensitive everyone was of anything with a sports/domestic violence angle.*

And let me also say, I write this with the full understanding that domestic violence incidents are complicated. And that it's already hard for many women who have been abused to come forward because when it's he-said-she-said everyone kind of throws their hands up in the air. And that victims take back abusers because they love them, or they think they will be loved by them, or that they don't deserve better, or there's a kid involved, or they think that this time will be the last time and they really both do love one another. And that they get really fucking complicated with high-paid athletes like Aroldis since there's a financial incentive to victims to stick it out because having money is better than not having money.

* Note, I'm not saying he's a good person. Or that he doesn't have some major issues -- firing 8 rounds through your garage wall isn't a normal, healthy, responsible way to let off steam. Just that there's no evidence to conclude that he's the monster everyone seems to be saying he is.

There is no room on the Internet for your nuanced discussion about Aroldis.

[WTB...A RING FFS!!]

No matter what you all say, EVERY one of us would be cheering for him come October if he was on the hill in a save situation to clinch either the pennant or World Series just to finally win either.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

The ugh is currently beating the "wow their bullpen is going to be really fucking dominant" but there's no denying this makes them better.

But ugh

Yeah ... but ... 105.

Yeah ... but ... choking a woman.

It's going to be hard for us to make fun of other teams when John Lackey is only our second biggest shitbag.

I suggest you maybe not get so wrapped up in your SPORTSING then.

I mean you do realize that like 90% of the guys we root for are Donald Trump supporters, right?

[Yeti]

The ugh is currently beating the "wow their bullpen is going to be really fucking dominant" but there's no denying this makes them better.

But ugh

Yeah ... but ... 105.

Yeah ... but ... choking a woman.

I'm going to preface this by saying I ask this with the hope that I don't come across as a wife-beating apologist:

Have you read the police reports and "closeout memo"?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aroldis-chapman-s-girlfriend-alleged-he--choked--her--according-to-police-report-023629095.html
https://www.scribd.com/document/296195124/Aroldis-Chapman-Closeout-Memo

I ask because I hadn't until taking 20-30 minutes to do so tonight. Up until I did, I was more or less of the same mindset -- fuck that guy, he beat his wife.

But, now I'm kind of conflicted.

1) he was never charged, let alone convicted.
2) his girlfriend later changed her account of events to say "...she entered his personal space. Aroldis used his fingers to move her away from him, out of his personal space. She lost her balance and fell."
3) there were ~20 other witnesses (including the victim's brother) in the house at the time and police couldn't get a story that lined up.

Add to that, the story broke when the Ray Rice and Greg Hardy incidents were really fresh, and now I'm wondering if he got unfairly convicted in the court of public opinion because of how hypersensitive everyone was of anything with a sports/domestic violence angle.*

And let me also say, I write this with the full understanding that domestic violence incidents are complicated. And that it's already hard for many women who have been abused to come forward because when it's he-said-she-said everyone kind of throws their hands up in the air. And that victims take back abusers because they love them, or they think they will be loved by them, or that they don't deserve better, or there's a kid involved, or they think that this time will be the last time and they really both do love one another. And that they get really fucking complicated with high-paid athletes like Aroldis since there's a financial incentive to victims to stick it out because having money is better than not having money.

* Note, I'm not saying he's a good person. Or that he doesn't have some major issues -- firing 8 rounds through your garage wall isn't a normal, healthy, responsible way to let off steam. Just that there's no evidence to conclude that he's the monster everyone seems to be saying he is.

Also, her changing her story at a later date isn't something I'd use, but her changing the details from the phone call to the initial police interview that night is something to notice. On the phone call she stated he was hitting her in front of everyone. At the on site interview, she said she led him out of the room with everyone and her brother only came in after she was on the ground.

[SKO]

Look if you want to just ignore that stuff and say you root for a team and not a person and that Chapman is probably not even the only wife beater in that room, that's okay. I get that. None of us are gonna stop watching I'm sure. Some of us just prefer the illusion of rooting for the happy fun team that has pajama days and the Bryzzo co, etc. This takes a little away from that.

But ultimately he served his suspension and he was going to a contender and I can't say I'd like him shutting the Cubs down for the Nats in October any better. Let's just hope this works and try not to fight over whether he did or didn't do it because I think that's just gonna take us fown a bad road.

[SKO]

TL:DR, I don't think you're a bad person if you're fine with this move and just want to say "he's served his suspension, most of these guys probably suck, I'm rooting for the laundry." Just let the people who are disgusted by him be disgusted and let's all just not try to seek the moral high ground against each other. As long as you aren't the subhumans in my twitter mentions calling people a "pussy" and telling them to "get the fuck over it, winning is all that matters", it's fine.

[Quality Start Machine]

The ugh is currently beating the "wow their bullpen is going to be really fucking dominant" but there's no denying this makes them better.

But ugh

Yeah ... but ... 105.

Yeah ... but ... choking a woman.

It's going to be hard for us to make fun of other teams when John Lackey is only our second biggest shitbag.

I suggest you maybe not get so wrapped up in your SPORTSING then.

I mean you do realize that like 90% of the guys we root for are Donald Trump supporters, right?

I'm shocked that a fuckload of millionaires who make their living doing something we all do for recreation would support Donald Trump.

[ChuckD]

TL:DR, I don't think you're a bad person if you're fine with this move and just want to say "he's served his suspension, most of these guys probably suck, I'm rooting for the laundry." Just let the people who are disgusted by him be disgusted and let's all just not try to seek the moral high ground against each other. As long as you aren't the subhumans in my twitter mentions calling people a "pussy" and telling them to "get the fuck over it, winning is all that matters", it's fine.

It's not my intent to take any moral high ground or rationalize it or whatever. I'm all for firing up a great big convoy of hatewagons if the guy is a total sack of shit. I'm just genuinely curious w/ respect to this particular incident.

Given that there's no tangible evidence it happened and that the girlfriend went on record with the police to say it didn't happen, should people take that at face value that it actually didn't happen?

Edit: By "it" I mean "the choking"

[SKO]

TL:DR, I don't think you're a bad person if you're fine with this move and just want to say "he's served his suspension, most of these guys probably suck, I'm rooting for the laundry." Just let the people who are disgusted by him be disgusted and let's all just not try to seek the moral high ground against each other. As long as you aren't the subhumans in my twitter mentions calling people a "pussy" and telling them to "get the fuck over it, winning is all that matters", it's fine.

It's not my intent to take any moral high ground or rationalize it or whatever. I'm all for firing up a great big convoy of hatewagons if the guy is a total sack of shit. I'm just genuinely curious w/ respect to this particular incident.

Given that there's no tangible evidence it happened and that the girlfriend went on record with the police to say it didn't happen, should people take that at face value that it actually didn't happen?

I mean I find "firing warning shots in anger into the wall of your garage" to be terrifying shitbag behavior, so I'm not really comfortable saying something awful didn't happen whether he choked her or not.

MLB suspended him 50 games and he didn't even appeal the suspension. I'm not comfortable at all saying nothing happened.

[Eli]

TL:DR, I don't think you're a bad person if you're fine with this move and just want to say "he's served his suspension, most of these guys probably suck, I'm rooting for the laundry." Just let the people who are disgusted by him be disgusted and let's all just not try to seek the moral high ground against each other. As long as you aren't the subhumans in my twitter mentions calling people a "pussy" and telling them to "get the fuck over it, winning is all that matters", it's fine.

It's not my intent to take any moral high ground or rationalize it or whatever. I'm all for firing up a great big convoy of hatewagons if the guy is a total sack of shit. I'm just genuinely curious w/ respect to this particular incident.

Given that there's no tangible evidence it happened and that the girlfriend went on record with the police to say it didn't happen, should people take that at face value that it actually didn't happen?

I'm not prepared on a Monday morning to wade into all this shit, but the culture of domestic abuse is incredibly complicated (as you acknowledged) and her story-changing/retraction/no charges falls pretty well in line with the typical cycle of abuse (I mean, Janay Rice publicly apologized for her role in being abused). Maybe we don't know the specifics, but something aggressively physical obviously involving him and a woman happened -- with their infant son in the house -- and then he went off and fired eight rounds from a gun. That's enough detail to make me uncomfortable with the trade.

[ChuckD]

Cool. Thanks. That makes sense. And 100% agree that firing 8 rounds in to a garage wall after some sort of altercation with a loved one is not a healthy emotional response.

[Quality Start Machine]

I will also say that from a strictly baseball standpoint, if they land him for Torres and Warren (as Twitter currently has the deal), that's pretty fucking incredible.

[Yeti]

I will also say that from a strictly baseball standpoint, if they land him for Torres and Warren (as Twitter currently has the deal), that's pretty fucking incredible.

So, Starlin and Gleybar for Chapman.

Starlin had a sexual assault accusation, and a couple of nightclub incidents he was asked about. And we loved Starlin, so..................................