Reasonable Trade Discussion

[Eli]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

[Chuck to Chuck]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

Makes sense since Hoyer engineered Hanley Ramirez, Jesus Delgado, Harvey Garcia and Anibal Sanchez for Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and Guillermo Mota. Then Epstein and Hoyer tag teamed Reymond Fuentes, Casey Kelly, Eric Patterson and Anthony Rizzo for Adrian Gonzalez.

[SKO]

Good point, Chuck. Theo has made trades before.

[InternetApex]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

This is what I keep thinking. The Cubs front office can't be so dumb they don't consider that if they value him so highly. If he's the hitter we all think he is, nobody would keep him at catcher. At his size it's going to be murder on his legs. I really wish we knew if he could play LF at an Adam Dunn level at least. I guess anybody could right?

[SKO]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

This is what I keep thinking. The Cubs front office can't be so dumb they don't consider that if they value him so highly. If he's the hitter we all think he is, nobody would keep him at catcher. At his size it's going to be murder on his legs. I really wish we knew if he could play LF at an Adam Dunn level at least. I guess anybody could right?

But Adam Dunn's offense was neutralized most of his career by his abysmal defense in a lot of ways. If we had the understanding then that we have now of things like WAR he may have ended up as an AL only player far earlier in his career. The same may be true of Schwarber. If he could be a 4 or 5 win guy at first vs a 2 win guy as a butcher in left this front office might decide they can field a better team by trading Schwarber to get guys who can make you a stronger team overall, rather than hammering a square peg into a round hole because you like his bat.

[Powdered Toast Man]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

This is what I keep thinking. The Cubs front office can't be so dumb they don't consider that if they value him so highly. If he's the hitter we all think he is, nobody would keep him at catcher. At his size it's going to be murder on his legs. I really wish we knew if he could play LF at an Adam Dunn level at least. I guess anybody could right?

But Adam Dunn's offense was neutralized most of his career by his abysmal defense in a lot of ways. If we had the understanding then that we have now of things like WAR he may have ended up as an AL only player far earlier in his career. The same may be true of Schwarber. If he could be a 4 or 5 win guy at first vs a 2 win guy as a butcher in left this front office might decide they can field a better team by trading Schwarber to get guys who can make you a stronger team overall, rather than hammering a square peg into a round hole because you like his bat.

I don't want to go so far to say he's a square peg in a round hole. I'm assuming you don't think he can even play LF adequately. I haven't seen him do it much, either, but I feel like I can gauge his athleticism a bit by just watching him run the bases. He's a big guy, but he's not a limited athlete...

Just looking at him, I don't get the feeling he can't do it...that's all I'm saying.

This goes back to talent accumulation, though. Maybe the Cubs just stockpile all these talented hitters and then figure out if they can keep them when they're ready or turn their investment into something they need. I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of hoping the Cubs keep Schwarber because I like his bat. But it's ready, so it leaves me wondering if there definitely is something afoot and why he's not in LF already in Chicago.

[SKO]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

This is what I keep thinking. The Cubs front office can't be so dumb they don't consider that if they value him so highly. If he's the hitter we all think he is, nobody would keep him at catcher. At his size it's going to be murder on his legs. I really wish we knew if he could play LF at an Adam Dunn level at least. I guess anybody could right?

But Adam Dunn's offense was neutralized most of his career by his abysmal defense in a lot of ways. If we had the understanding then that we have now of things like WAR he may have ended up as an AL only player far earlier in his career. The same may be true of Schwarber. If he could be a 4 or 5 win guy at first vs a 2 win guy as a butcher in left this front office might decide they can field a better team by trading Schwarber to get guys who can make you a stronger team overall, rather than hammering a square peg into a round hole because you like his bat.

I don't want to go so far to say he's a square peg in a round hole. I'm assuming you don't think he can even play LF adequately. I haven't seen him do it much, either, but I feel like I can gauge his athleticism a bit by just watching him run the bases. He's a big guy, but he's not a limited athlete...

Just looking at him, I don't get the feeling he can't do it...that's all I'm saying.

This goes back to talent accumulation, though. Maybe the Cubs just stockpile all these talented hitters and then figure out if they can keep them when they're ready or turn their investment into something they need. I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of hoping the Cubs keep Schwarber because I like his bat. But it's ready, so it leaves me wondering if there definitely is something afoot and why he's not in LF already in Chicago.

Well I was speaking hypothetically. Maybe he could be a pretty good outfielder before he slows down in a few years, I haven't read too many scouting reports about his ability in the OF, honestly. I was just answering Apex hypothetical of "if Adam Dunn can play OF so can Schwarber" or whatever. If he plays Adam Dunn level defense the best thing for him and the team may be to trade him.

I'm not exactly advocating trading him. Just saying that Theo's run through probably every possible projection of him as both a catcher and an outfielder and if he decides the team will win more ballgames by trading him for a pitcher and finding an actual outfielder or catcher I trust his judgment on that one.

I mean heck, maybe we're all underestimating how good McKinney can be. He may not hit for a ton of power and we'll miss the fat guy home runs, but maybe his bat/OBP skills and actual ability to play defense in LF would make him a better player to have than Schwarber anyway.

[Chuck to Chuck]

The thing about Schwarber is maybe the Cubs do feel he can be a MLB catcher.

They very well might. There have just been some inconsistencies -- they keep saying he can catch, which means he must've shown some strong signs. But then they basically said he's currently unrosterable anywhere besides DH during his call-up. That seems like a pretty wide gulf to cover between now and next season.

And just from looking at the guy, how many guys with his body type (yes, BMI alert) either hold up at catcher or can play a competent left field for more than maybe a few years? He needs to be a 1B long-term and that -- despite Rob Neyer's imagination -- isn't happening with Rizzo there.

He very well could play an Evan Gattis type of role for a few years but I think he's going to struggle to outhit his other liabilities as he ages into his mid-late 20s. Again, unless he's at 1B or DH.

The good news is the front office will figure it out. He'll either have a real role here or bring back something awesome in a trade. I'm still strongly leaning towards a "holy shit" trade from this front office sometime between now and January.

This is what I keep thinking. The Cubs front office can't be so dumb they don't consider that if they value him so highly. If he's the hitter we all think he is, nobody would keep him at catcher. At his size it's going to be murder on his legs. I really wish we knew if he could play LF at an Adam Dunn level at least. I guess anybody could right?

But Adam Dunn's offense was neutralized most of his career by his abysmal defense in a lot of ways. If we had the understanding then that we have now of things like WAR he may have ended up as an AL only player far earlier in his career. The same may be true of Schwarber. If he could be a 4 or 5 win guy at first vs a 2 win guy as a butcher in left this front office might decide they can field a better team by trading Schwarber to get guys who can make you a stronger team overall, rather than hammering a square peg into a round hole because you like his bat.

I don't want to go so far to say he's a square peg in a round hole. I'm assuming you don't think he can even play LF adequately. I haven't seen him do it much, either, but I feel like I can gauge his athleticism a bit by just watching him run the bases. He's a big guy, but he's not a limited athlete...

Just looking at him, I don't get the feeling he can't do it...that's all I'm saying.

This goes back to talent accumulation, though. Maybe the Cubs just stockpile all these talented hitters and then figure out if they can keep them when they're ready or turn their investment into something they need. I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of hoping the Cubs keep Schwarber because I like his bat. But it's ready, so it leaves me wondering if there definitely is something afoot and why he's not in LF already in Chicago.

Theo was making the radio rounds saying he likes to get his players 1000-1500 MiLB PAs. Even Bryant got to 773 minor league PAs. Schwarber is at 584. That's about another 40 to 45 games to get the Bryant levels.

[Eli]

I'm not exactly advocating trading him. Just saying that Theo's run through probably every possible projection of him as both a catcher and an outfielder and if he decides the team will win more ballgames by trading him for a pitcher and finding an actual outfielder or catcher I trust his judgment on that one.

I mean heck, maybe we're all underestimating how good McKinney can be. He may not hit for a ton of power and we'll miss the fat guy home runs, but maybe his bat/OBP skills and actual ability to play defense in LF would make him a better player to have than Schwarber anyway.

If we're just talking about left field, McKinney could absolutely be more valuable than Schwarber, factoring in his defense and (likely) baserunning advantage.

[Richard Chuggar]

I'm not exactly advocating trading him. Just saying that Theo's run through probably every possible projection of him as both a catcher and an outfielder and if he decides the team will win more ballgames by trading him for a pitcher and finding an actual outfielder or catcher I trust his judgment on that one.

I mean heck, maybe we're all underestimating how good McKinney can be. He may not hit for a ton of power and we'll miss the fat guy home runs, but maybe his bat/OBP skills and actual ability to play defense in LF would make him a better player to have than Schwarber anyway.

If we're just talking about left field, McKinney could absolutely be more valuable than Schwarber, factoring in his defense and (likely) baserunning advantage.

WHAT ABOUT THE DINGERS???

[Chuck to Chuck]

I'm not exactly advocating trading him. Just saying that Theo's run through probably every possible projection of him as both a catcher and an outfielder and if he decides the team will win more ballgames by trading him for a pitcher and finding an actual outfielder or catcher I trust his judgment on that one.

I mean heck, maybe we're all underestimating how good McKinney can be. He may not hit for a ton of power and we'll miss the fat guy home runs, but maybe his bat/OBP skills and actual ability to play defense in LF would make him a better player to have than Schwarber anyway.

If we're just talking about left field, McKinney could absolutely be more valuable than Schwarber, factoring in his defense and (likely) baserunning advantage.

WHAT ABOUT THE DINGERS???

TLC cancelled their show.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I'm not exactly advocating trading him. Just saying that Theo's run through probably every possible projection of him as both a catcher and an outfielder and if he decides the team will win more ballgames by trading him for a pitcher and finding an actual outfielder or catcher I trust his judgment on that one.

I mean heck, maybe we're all underestimating how good McKinney can be. He may not hit for a ton of power and we'll miss the fat guy home runs, but maybe his bat/OBP skills and actual ability to play defense in LF would make him a better player to have than Schwarber anyway.

If we're just talking about left field, McKinney could absolutely be more valuable than Schwarber, factoring in his defense and (likely) baserunning advantage.

WHAT ABOUT THE DINGERS???

TLC cancelled their show.

So, so much no, Chuck.

[Eli]

Who knows what Morosi actually knows about the Cubs' thought process, but it's presumably more than we do.

There's some stuff about how Castro is bad and they would prefer to trade for a non-rental starter. Nothing we don't know. But he does at least throw out some names here:

Switch-hitting center fielder Dexter Fowler is having the worst offensive season of his major-league career, and his struggles have been most pronounced from the left side.

Two names to watch: Milwaukee's Gerardo Parra, a two-time Gold Glove winner, and San Diego's Will Venable, who played for Hoyer during his tenure as general manager of the Padres.

Not sure how likely Fowler is to turn it around, but I wouldn't mind Parra coming in to play the heavy side of a platoon in that spot. Fowler's always been better as a right-handed hitter and it's an even more pronounced difference this year.

[SKO]

Who knows what Morosi actually knows about the Cubs' thought process, but it's presumably more than we do.

There's some stuff about how Castro is bad and they would prefer to trade for a non-rental starter. Nothing we don't know. But he does at least throw out some names here:

Switch-hitting center fielder Dexter Fowler is having the worst offensive season of his major-league career, and his struggles have been most pronounced from the left side.

Two names to watch: Milwaukee's Gerardo Parra, a two-time Gold Glove winner, and San Diego's Will Venable, who played for Hoyer during his tenure as general manager of the Padres.

Not sure how likely Fowler is to turn it around, but I wouldn't mind Parra coming in to play the heavy side of a platoon in that spot. Fowler's always been better as a right-handed hitter and it's an even more pronounced difference this year.

I'm all for it. Can't imagine the prospect cost would be that great. The outfield has been a drag the last month+ but an outfield of Jorge, a Parra (.838 ops vs RHP)/Fowler (.833 vs LHP) platoon in center, and a Coghlan/Denorfia platoon in left could be pretty consistently good.

[Eli]

Who knows what Morosi actually knows about the Cubs' thought process, but it's presumably more than we do.

There's some stuff about how Castro is bad and they would prefer to trade for a non-rental starter. Nothing we don't know. But he does at least throw out some names here:

Switch-hitting center fielder Dexter Fowler is having the worst offensive season of his major-league career, and his struggles have been most pronounced from the left side.

Two names to watch: Milwaukee's Gerardo Parra, a two-time Gold Glove winner, and San Diego's Will Venable, who played for Hoyer during his tenure as general manager of the Padres.

Not sure how likely Fowler is to turn it around, but I wouldn't mind Parra coming in to play the heavy side of a platoon in that spot. Fowler's always been better as a right-handed hitter and it's an even more pronounced difference this year.

I'm all for it. Can't imagine the prospect cost would be that great. The outfield has been a drag the last month+ but an outfield of Jorge, a Parra (.838 ops vs RHP)/Fowler (.833 vs LHP) platoon in center, and a Coghlan/Denorfia platoon in left could be pretty consistently good.

And having those platoons would help strengthen the bench on any given day.