Reasonable Trade Discussion

[Slaky]

I've decided that if you can get Price for any combo of guys without losing Baez (assume anyone on the ML roster that we care about is staying) that the Cubs should do it.

Having him in the rotation, playing for Maddon, playing in a raucous Wrigley Field down the stretch, would probably hit all the right notes. It would allow them to start talking about a possible extension early, as well.

I want to keep Baez pretty badly - but I guess if it was Baez for Price straight up I'd have to think pretty hard about that, too.

[Saul Goodman]

I've decided that if you can get Price for any combo of guys without losing Baez (assume anyone on the ML roster that we care about is staying) that the Cubs should do it.

Having him in the rotation, playing for Maddon, playing in a raucous Wrigley Field down the stretch, would probably hit all the right notes. It would allow them to start talking about a possible extension early, as well.

I want to keep Baez pretty badly - but I guess if it was Baez for Price straight up I'd have to think pretty hard about that, too.

They'd still probably need a bat. Who you got? I'd be talking to Milwaukee about either Gomez so I don't have to watch Fowler suck anymore or Parra so I can start wringing every shred of value out of his career year. Cespedes will probably cost too much.

[Saul Goodman]

Joe Sheehan on the depressing Starlin Castro situation.

Javier Baez's broken left fing finger was poorly timed not just for him, but for the Cubs, who are playing a zero at shortstop. Starlin Castro is actually worse than that, posting a -0.9 bWAR on the back of a .272 OBP and below-average defense at shortstop. It's the second disastrous season in three for a 25-year-old who may be the most frustrating player in baseball.

Castro was a good player at 20 and, three years into his career, was legitimately on a Hall of Fame track: 529 hits, 8.0 bWAR, clear improvement in the field and at the plate. Since then...look at the numbers.

Starlin Castro's Career

               PA    AVG   OBP  SLG  SB  CS  dWAR
2010-12  1912   .297  .336  .425   57  30   1.2
2013-15  1663   .259  .300  .369   17  13  -0.3

The Cubs needed Castro to build on last year so that he'd be an attractive trade chip. Four months ago, Castro looked like someone who could be a shortstop for a contender through his peak, one signed to a team-friendly deal paying less than $10M a year through 2019. Now, he looks like Elvis Andrus with less speed and defense. The Cubs had three shortstops not long ago. Now they have an albatross, a rushed rookie not hitting at second base, and a guy on the minor-league DL.

This is already a problem, because it doesn't take much watching the Cubs to realize that they've got their middle infield backwards. Addison Russell has been great at second base, in part because he's a good shortstop playing over there. He's much better than Castro with the glove, and he's playing out of position because Castro was born sooner. That's fine for half a season or so, but eventually, the Cubs are going to have to commit to the player who actually will be part of their core in 2018, even if it means pissing off the player who won't be.

Castro likely won't be traded until the offseason; he's played terribly and, with Baez hurt, the Cubs don't have the logjam they might have had otherwise. However, they can't go into 2016 with Russell at second base and Baez in the minors. It's bad for Russell and bad for the organization. I'm not sure what Castro can be at this point, but I'm sure what he can't be: a Cub.

Three ideas, and I'm not saying any of these are deadline deals or even doable:

1) Castro to the Padres for Ian Kennedy
2) Castro to the White Sox for Alexei Ramirez and Jeff Samardzija
3) Castro to the Twins for Aaron Hicks and Alex Meyer

DPD. Was Russell rushed? And if he was, is keeping him up going to (deep breath) (whispers) Corey Patterson him?

[Quality Start Machine]

I've decided that if you can get Price for any combo of guys without losing Baez (assume anyone on the ML roster that we care about is staying) that the Cubs should do it.

Having him in the rotation, playing for Maddon, playing in a raucous Wrigley Field down the stretch, would probably hit all the right notes. It would allow them to start talking about a possible extension early, as well.

I want to keep Baez pretty badly - but I guess if it was Baez for Price straight up I'd have to think pretty hard about that, too.

don't think Jepstink move on Price without an extension already in the works. They could just as easily get Hamels, who is already signed for a while.

The upside to moving on Price is that a package with Vogelbach has more value to an AL team.

[R-V]

Joe Sheehan on the depressing Starlin Castro situation.

Javier Baez's broken left fing finger was poorly timed not just for him, but for the Cubs, who are playing a zero at shortstop. Starlin Castro is actually worse than that, posting a -0.9 bWAR on the back of a .272 OBP and below-average defense at shortstop. It's the second disastrous season in three for a 25-year-old who may be the most frustrating player in baseball.

Castro was a good player at 20 and, three years into his career, was legitimately on a Hall of Fame track: 529 hits, 8.0 bWAR, clear improvement in the field and at the plate. Since then...look at the numbers.

Starlin Castro's Career

               PA    AVG   OBP  SLG  SB  CS  dWAR
2010-12  1912   .297  .336  .425   57  30   1.2
2013-15  1663   .259  .300  .369   17  13  -0.3

The Cubs needed Castro to build on last year so that he'd be an attractive trade chip. Four months ago, Castro looked like someone who could be a shortstop for a contender through his peak, one signed to a team-friendly deal paying less than $10M a year through 2019. Now, he looks like Elvis Andrus with less speed and defense. The Cubs had three shortstops not long ago. Now they have an albatross, a rushed rookie not hitting at second base, and a guy on the minor-league DL.

This is already a problem, because it doesn't take much watching the Cubs to realize that they've got their middle infield backwards. Addison Russell has been great at second base, in part because he's a good shortstop playing over there. He's much better than Castro with the glove, and he's playing out of position because Castro was born sooner. That's fine for half a season or so, but eventually, the Cubs are going to have to commit to the player who actually will be part of their core in 2018, even if it means pissing off the player who won't be.

Castro likely won't be traded until the offseason; he's played terribly and, with Baez hurt, the Cubs don't have the logjam they might have had otherwise. However, they can't go into 2016 with Russell at second base and Baez in the minors. It's bad for Russell and bad for the organization. I'm not sure what Castro can be at this point, but I'm sure what he can't be: a Cub.

Three ideas, and I'm not saying any of these are deadline deals or even doable:

1) Castro to the Padres for Ian Kennedy
2) Castro to the White Sox for Alexei Ramirez and Jeff Samardzija
3) Castro to the Twins for Aaron Hicks and Alex Meyer

DPD. Was Russell rushed? And if he was, is keeping him up going to (deep breath) (whispers) Corey Patterson him?

I don't think it's a reach to say that the plan for this year was to have Baez as your plan A at 2B with La Stella as your plan B, with Russell getting a bit more time in the minors. It's definitely arguable to say that he was "rushed" - the adjustments he's made of late would counter that - but I do think he was called up out of necessity and maybe wasn't fully ripe.

[SKO]

Joe Sheehan on the depressing Starlin Castro situation.

Javier Baez's broken left fing finger was poorly timed not just for him, but for the Cubs, who are playing a zero at shortstop. Starlin Castro is actually worse than that, posting a -0.9 bWAR on the back of a .272 OBP and below-average defense at shortstop. It's the second disastrous season in three for a 25-year-old who may be the most frustrating player in baseball.

Castro was a good player at 20 and, three years into his career, was legitimately on a Hall of Fame track: 529 hits, 8.0 bWAR, clear improvement in the field and at the plate. Since then...look at the numbers.

Starlin Castro's Career

              PA    AVG   OBP  SLG  SB  CS  dWAR
2010-12  1912   .297  .336  .425   57  30   1.2
2013-15  1663   .259  .300  .369   17  13  -0.3

The Cubs needed Castro to build on last year so that he'd be an attractive trade chip. Four months ago, Castro looked like someone who could be a shortstop for a contender through his peak, one signed to a team-friendly deal paying less than $10M a year through 2019. Now, he looks like Elvis Andrus with less speed and defense. The Cubs had three shortstops not long ago. Now they have an albatross, a rushed rookie not hitting at second base, and a guy on the minor-league DL.

This is already a problem, because it doesn't take much watching the Cubs to realize that they've got their middle infield backwards. Addison Russell has been great at second base, in part because he's a good shortstop playing over there. He's much better than Castro with the glove, and he's playing out of position because Castro was born sooner. That's fine for half a season or so, but eventually, the Cubs are going to have to commit to the player who actually will be part of their core in 2018, even if it means pissing off the player who won't be.

Castro likely won't be traded until the offseason; he's played terribly and, with Baez hurt, the Cubs don't have the logjam they might have had otherwise. However, they can't go into 2016 with Russell at second base and Baez in the minors. It's bad for Russell and bad for the organization. I'm not sure what Castro can be at this point, but I'm sure what he can't be: a Cub.

Three ideas, and I'm not saying any of these are deadline deals or even doable:

1) Castro to the Padres for Ian Kennedy
2) Castro to the White Sox for Alexei Ramirez and Jeff Samardzija
3) Castro to the Twins for Aaron Hicks and Alex Meyer

DPD. Was Russell rushed? And if he was, is keeping him up going to (deep breath) (whispers) Corey Patterson him?

He could maybe have used some more time in AAA, but I doubt it'll have any effect on his long term career. Unlike Patterson he posted respectable minor league numbers above A Ball, and his promotions all were earned. Also, while it hasn't been a straight linear progression, he's improved overall as the season has gone along. His May was downright excellent, and his K% has gone down and BB% gone up each month. He's got a .469 OBP in his last 9 games. I've said it before but there's really nothing wrong with him that I think can be fixed by anything other than seeing a lot of big league pitches and figuring out what to do with them, and he is.

[Quality Start Machine]

Joe Sheehan on the depressing Starlin Castro situation.

Javier Baez's broken left fing finger was poorly timed not just for him, but for the Cubs, who are playing a zero at shortstop. Starlin Castro is actually worse than that, posting a -0.9 bWAR on the back of a .272 OBP and below-average defense at shortstop. It's the second disastrous season in three for a 25-year-old who may be the most frustrating player in baseball.

Castro was a good player at 20 and, three years into his career, was legitimately on a Hall of Fame track: 529 hits, 8.0 bWAR, clear improvement in the field and at the plate. Since then...look at the numbers.

Starlin Castro's Career

              PA    AVG   OBP  SLG  SB  CS  dWAR
2010-12  1912   .297  .336  .425   57  30   1.2
2013-15  1663   .259  .300  .369   17  13  -0.3

The Cubs needed Castro to build on last year so that he'd be an attractive trade chip. Four months ago, Castro looked like someone who could be a shortstop for a contender through his peak, one signed to a team-friendly deal paying less than $10M a year through 2019. Now, he looks like Elvis Andrus with less speed and defense. The Cubs had three shortstops not long ago. Now they have an albatross, a rushed rookie not hitting at second base, and a guy on the minor-league DL.

This is already a problem, because it doesn't take much watching the Cubs to realize that they've got their middle infield backwards. Addison Russell has been great at second base, in part because he's a good shortstop playing over there. He's much better than Castro with the glove, and he's playing out of position because Castro was born sooner. That's fine for half a season or so, but eventually, the Cubs are going to have to commit to the player who actually will be part of their core in 2018, even if it means pissing off the player who won't be.

Castro likely won't be traded until the offseason; he's played terribly and, with Baez hurt, the Cubs don't have the logjam they might have had otherwise. However, they can't go into 2016 with Russell at second base and Baez in the minors. It's bad for Russell and bad for the organization. I'm not sure what Castro can be at this point, but I'm sure what he can't be: a Cub.

Three ideas, and I'm not saying any of these are deadline deals or even doable:

1) Castro to the Padres for Ian Kennedy
2) Castro to the White Sox for Alexei Ramirez and Jeff Samardzija
3) Castro to the Twins for Aaron Hicks and Alex Meyer

DPD. Was Russell rushed? And if he was, is keeping him up going to (deep breath) (whispers) Corey Patterson him?

He could maybe have used some more time in AAA, but I doubt it'll have any effect on his long term career. Unlike Patterson he posted respectable minor league numbers above A Ball, and his promotions all were earned. Also, while it hasn't been a straight linear progression, he's improved overall as the season has gone along. His May was downright excellent, and his K% has gone down and BB% gone up each month. He's got a .469 OBP in his last 9 games. I've said it before but there's really nothing wrong with him that I think can be fixed by anything other than seeing a lot of big league pitches and figuring out what to do with them, and he is.

Not to mention Russell actually plays for a Cubs team that stresses OPB, as opposed to Patterson's team, which was happy with a grip-it-and-rip-it approach.

[InternetApex]

Joe Sheehan on the depressing Starlin Castro situation.

Javier Baez's broken left fing finger was poorly timed not just for him, but for the Cubs, who are playing a zero at shortstop. Starlin Castro is actually worse than that, posting a -0.9 bWAR on the back of a .272 OBP and below-average defense at shortstop. It's the second disastrous season in three for a 25-year-old who may be the most frustrating player in baseball.

Castro was a good player at 20 and, three years into his career, was legitimately on a Hall of Fame track: 529 hits, 8.0 bWAR, clear improvement in the field and at the plate. Since then...look at the numbers.

Starlin Castro's Career

              PA    AVG   OBP  SLG  SB  CS  dWAR
2010-12  1912   .297  .336  .425   57  30   1.2
2013-15  1663   .259  .300  .369   17  13  -0.3

The Cubs needed Castro to build on last year so that he'd be an attractive trade chip. Four months ago, Castro looked like someone who could be a shortstop for a contender through his peak, one signed to a team-friendly deal paying less than $10M a year through 2019. Now, he looks like Elvis Andrus with less speed and defense. The Cubs had three shortstops not long ago. Now they have an albatross, a rushed rookie not hitting at second base, and a guy on the minor-league DL.

This is already a problem, because it doesn't take much watching the Cubs to realize that they've got their middle infield backwards. Addison Russell has been great at second base, in part because he's a good shortstop playing over there. He's much better than Castro with the glove, and he's playing out of position because Castro was born sooner. That's fine for half a season or so, but eventually, the Cubs are going to have to commit to the player who actually will be part of their core in 2018, even if it means pissing off the player who won't be.

Castro likely won't be traded until the offseason; he's played terribly and, with Baez hurt, the Cubs don't have the logjam they might have had otherwise. However, they can't go into 2016 with Russell at second base and Baez in the minors. It's bad for Russell and bad for the organization. I'm not sure what Castro can be at this point, but I'm sure what he can't be: a Cub.

Three ideas, and I'm not saying any of these are deadline deals or even doable:

1) Castro to the Padres for Ian Kennedy
2) Castro to the White Sox for Alexei Ramirez and Jeff Samardzija
3) Castro to the Twins for Aaron Hicks and Alex Meyer

DPD. Was Russell rushed? And if he was, is keeping him up going to (deep breath) (whispers) Corey Patterson him?

He could maybe have used some more time in AAA, but I doubt it'll have any effect on his long term career. Unlike Patterson he posted respectable minor league numbers above A Ball, and his promotions all were earned. Also, while it hasn't been a straight linear progression, he's improved overall as the season has gone along. His May was downright excellent, and his K% has gone down and BB% gone up each month. He's got a .469 OBP in his last 9 games. I've said it before but there's really nothing wrong with him that I think can be fixed by anything other than seeing a lot of big league pitches and figuring out what to do with them, and he is.

Not to mention Russell actually plays for a Cubs team that stresses OPB, as opposed to Patterson's team, which was happy with a grip-it-and-rip-it approach.

More this than anything. Also playing for Madden helps in some way nobody can quantify but people who know stuff talk about.

[Saul Goodman]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

[SKO]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

Both are in A ball. High risk, high reward, ranked #19 and #22 in the Astros farm system. If that's gonna set the market I like the Cubs chances of landing something good without giving up a Baez.

[Saul Goodman]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

Both are in A ball. High risk, high reward, ranked #19 and #22 in the Astros farm system. If that's gonna set the market I like the Cubs chances of landing something good without giving up a Baez.

Just came back from Houston's MLB Pipeline portal to post the same thing. Assuming the systems are roughly equal, which most do, that would have been Jacob Hannemann and something called Daury Torrez from the Cubs for two, but hopefully three, months of Kazmir.

[Saul Goodman]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

Both are in A ball. High risk, high reward, ranked #19 and #22 in the Astros farm system. If that's gonna set the market I like the Cubs chances of landing something good without giving up a Baez.

Just came back from Houston's MLB Pipeline portal to post the same thing. Assuming the systems are roughly equal, which most do, that would have been Jacob Hannemann and something called Daury Torrez from the Cubs for two, but hopefully three, months of Kazmir.

Hannemann is the meh outfielder and Mormon who knocks back Shirley Temples and optoats with Kris Bryant and PANK. And I had literally never heard of Daury until five minutes ago. Sorry, Daury.

[SKO]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

Both are in A ball. High risk, high reward, ranked #19 and #22 in the Astros farm system. If that's gonna set the market I like the Cubs chances of landing something good without giving up a Baez.

Just came back from Houston's MLB Pipeline portal to post the same thing. Assuming the systems are roughly equal, which most do, that would have been Jacob Hannemann and something called Daury Torrez from the Cubs for two, but hopefully three, months of Kazmir.

Hannemann is the meh outfielder and Mormon who knocks back Shirley Temples and optoats with Kris Bryant and PANK. And I had literally never heard of Daury until five minutes ago. Sorry, Daury.

To be fair Nottignham is a catcher who is absolutely raking and would probably be ranked higher than that today, but yeah, it's still not an overwhelming return. Cubs should do well if that's where the market starts

[Yeti]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

Both are in A ball. High risk, high reward, ranked #19 and #22 in the Astros farm system. If that's gonna set the market I like the Cubs chances of landing something good without giving up a Baez.

Just came back from Houston's MLB Pipeline portal to post the same thing. Assuming the systems are roughly equal, which most do, that would have been Jacob Hannemann and something called Daury Torrez from the Cubs for two, but hopefully three, months of Kazmir.

Hannemann is the meh outfielder and Mormon who knocks back Shirley Temples and optoats with Kris Bryant and PANK. And I had literally never heard of Daury until five minutes ago. Sorry, Daury.

Hannemann sucks and is old. Pen will back me up

[Saul Goodman]

Astros acquire Scott Kazmir.

Oakland gets righty Daniel Mengden and catcher Jacob Nottingham, neither of whom I know the first thing about.

Both are in A ball. High risk, high reward, ranked #19 and #22 in the Astros farm system. If that's gonna set the market I like the Cubs chances of landing something good without giving up a Baez.

Just came back from Houston's MLB Pipeline portal to post the same thing. Assuming the systems are roughly equal, which most do, that would have been Jacob Hannemann and something called Daury Torrez from the Cubs for two, but hopefully three, months of Kazmir.

Hannemann is the meh outfielder and Mormon who knocks back Shirley Temples and optoats with Kris Bryant and PANK. And I had literally never heard of Daury until five minutes ago. Sorry, Daury.

To be fair Nottignham is a catcher who is absolutely raking and would probably be ranked higher than that today, but yeah, it's still not an overwhelming return. Cubs should do well if that's where the market starts

Nottingham's numbers in the Midwest League are impressive - it typically plays right down the middle between offense and defense. Cal League, less so, because it heavily favors offense. That 1:3 BB:SO ratio might spell trouble for him, though. And 6'3 sounds pretty rare for a catcher so I'm not sure he sticks there long-term but like Schwarber, might as well keep him there as long as you can. Finally he's young for the level at only 20. Him alone would have been a nice return, but fortunately the Cubs are lousy with guys like that.