Batman books

[SKO]

To be honest, I think Frank Miller writes a shitty Superman, and that scene in Dark Knight Returns, while not even technically canon, has fucked up comics nerds expectations for Superman/Batman for 25 years now.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I enjoyed the way Miller twisted around the whole "truth, justice, and the American way" statement by making Superman a government stooge. That said, the fight was sketchy and I agree that it provided an unsatisfying answer to the ultimate (and utterly stupid) question of who would win in a fight. Anywho, FUCK YOU IT WAS AWESOME AND WHEN PART TWO OF THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS COMES OUT NEXT YEAR I'M GOING TO WATCH IT AND SLAKY AND I WILL TWEET "MAN, BORT FUCKIN' SUCKS" AT EACH OTHER AND HI FIVE BECAUSE BATMAN.

Anyone who still buys into the 50s TV show intro as the correct Superman characterization is doing a disservice to nearly 80 years of storytelling. I'll admit, Supes is a hard character to write well, and more often than not he isn't written well, but Miller's naked contempt for the character makes his Superman a straw man.

Of course, I've never thought DKR was the pinnacle of Batman storytelling. It's an interesting take, but I don't think it holds up as well as Year One.

I'd argue that The Dark Knight Returns ignores a lot of the Batman stories told over the decades as well. He's certainly much darker and far more brutal than most versions of Bruce Wayne. I always felt like Miller was drawing the two of them at their extremes and pitting them against each other. Batman, a vigilante born to bring order from chaos, and Superman, a hero sent here to keep order from turning into chaos. Their goals are often the same but they have two different ways of looking at the world.

[SKO]

To be honest, I think Frank Miller writes a shitty Superman, and that scene in Dark Knight Returns, while not even technically canon, has fucked up comics nerds expectations for Superman/Batman for 25 years now.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I enjoyed the way Miller twisted around the whole "truth, justice, and the American way" statement by making Superman a government stooge. That said, the fight was sketchy and I agree that it provided an unsatisfying answer to the ultimate (and utterly stupid) question of who would win in a fight. Anywho, FUCK YOU IT WAS AWESOME AND WHEN PART TWO OF THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS COMES OUT NEXT YEAR I'M GOING TO WATCH IT AND SLAKY AND I WILL TWEET "MAN, BORT FUCKIN' SUCKS" AT EACH OTHER AND HI FIVE BECAUSE BATMAN.

Anyone who still buys into the 50s TV show intro as the correct Superman characterization is doing a disservice to nearly 80 years of storytelling. I'll admit, Supes is a hard character to write well, and more often than not he isn't written well, but Miller's naked contempt for the character makes his Superman a straw man.

Of course, I've never thought DKR was the pinnacle of Batman storytelling. It's an interesting take, but I don't think it holds up as well as Year One.

Although I gather from your tear-soaked defense of him, your favorite version of Superman is the one depicted by John Ondrasik.

[Bort]

To be honest, I think Frank Miller writes a shitty Superman, and that scene in Dark Knight Returns, while not even technically canon, has fucked up comics nerds expectations for Superman/Batman for 25 years now.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I enjoyed the way Miller twisted around the whole "truth, justice, and the American way" statement by making Superman a government stooge. That said, the fight was sketchy and I agree that it provided an unsatisfying answer to the ultimate (and utterly stupid) question of who would win in a fight. Anywho, FUCK YOU IT WAS AWESOME AND WHEN PART TWO OF THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS COMES OUT NEXT YEAR I'M GOING TO WATCH IT AND SLAKY AND I WILL TWEET "MAN, BORT FUCKIN' SUCKS" AT EACH OTHER AND HI FIVE BECAUSE BATMAN.

Anyone who still buys into the 50s TV show intro as the correct Superman characterization is doing a disservice to nearly 80 years of storytelling. I'll admit, Supes is a hard character to write well, and more often than not he isn't written well, but Miller's naked contempt for the character makes his Superman a straw man.

Of course, I've never thought DKR was the pinnacle of Batman storytelling. It's an interesting take, but I don't think it holds up as well as Year One.

Although I gather from your tear-soaked defense of him, your favorite version of Superman is the one depicted by John Ondrasik.

Actually, the depiction from All-Star Superman.

[Tinker to Evers to Chance]

To be honest, I think Frank Miller writes a shitty Superman, and that scene in Dark Knight Returns, while not even technically canon, has fucked up comics nerds expectations for Superman/Batman for 25 years now.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I enjoyed the way Miller twisted around the whole "truth, justice, and the American way" statement by making Superman a government stooge. That said, the fight was sketchy and I agree that it provided an unsatisfying answer to the ultimate (and utterly stupid) question of who would win in a fight. Anywho, FUCK YOU IT WAS AWESOME AND WHEN PART TWO OF THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS COMES OUT NEXT YEAR I'M GOING TO WATCH IT AND SLAKY AND I WILL TWEET "MAN, BORT FUCKIN' SUCKS" AT EACH OTHER AND HI FIVE BECAUSE BATMAN.

Anyone who still buys into the 50s TV show intro as the correct Superman characterization is doing a disservice to nearly 80 years of storytelling. I'll admit, Supes is a hard character to write well, and more often than not he isn't written well, but Miller's naked contempt for the character makes his Superman a straw man.

Of course, I've never thought DKR was the pinnacle of Batman storytelling. It's an interesting take, but I don't think it holds up as well as Year One.

Although I gather from your tear-soaked defense of him, your favorite version of Superman is the one depicted by John Ondrasik.

Actually, the depiction from All-Star Superman.

All-Star Superman is a must read for anyone that doesn't understand why he's awesome.

That being said, SKO's bu-u-u-u-urn made me chuckle.

[SKO]

To be honest, I think Frank Miller writes a shitty Superman, and that scene in Dark Knight Returns, while not even technically canon, has fucked up comics nerds expectations for Superman/Batman for 25 years now.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I enjoyed the way Miller twisted around the whole "truth, justice, and the American way" statement by making Superman a government stooge. That said, the fight was sketchy and I agree that it provided an unsatisfying answer to the ultimate (and utterly stupid) question of who would win in a fight. Anywho, FUCK YOU IT WAS AWESOME AND WHEN PART TWO OF THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS COMES OUT NEXT YEAR I'M GOING TO WATCH IT AND SLAKY AND I WILL TWEET "MAN, BORT FUCKIN' SUCKS" AT EACH OTHER AND HI FIVE BECAUSE BATMAN.

Anyone who still buys into the 50s TV show intro as the correct Superman characterization is doing a disservice to nearly 80 years of storytelling. I'll admit, Supes is a hard character to write well, and more often than not he isn't written well, but Miller's naked contempt for the character makes his Superman a straw man.

Of course, I've never thought DKR was the pinnacle of Batman storytelling. It's an interesting take, but I don't think it holds up as well as Year One.

Although I gather from your tear-soaked defense of him, your favorite version of Superman is the one depicted by John Ondrasik.

Actually, the depiction from All-Star Superman.

All-Star Superman is a must read for anyone that doesn't understand why he's awesome.

That being said, SKO's bu-u-u-u-urn made me chuckle.

I actually really enjoy All-Star Superman. Grant Morrison has done wonders for DC. I just really, really wanted to make that burn. Thank you for the validation, TEC.

[Chuck to Chuck]

I actually really enjoy All-Star Superman. Grant Morrison has done wonders for DC. I just really, really wanted to make that burn. Thank you for the validation, TEC.

Have you tried the film version of All-Star Superman? Wonder if it's any good.

I've also got a thing for Lois Lane's voice, so the movie might be better for me than the comic.

[SKO]

I actually really enjoy All-Star Superman. Grant Morrison has done wonders for DC. I just really, really wanted to make that burn. Thank you for the validation, TEC.

Have you tried the film version of All-Star Superman? Wonder if it's any good.

I've also got a thing for Lois Lane's voice, so the movie might be better for me than the comic.

Haven't tried any of the Superman or the Justice League/Superman and Batman films. So far the only DCAU feature films I've seen are the Batman only Year One and Under the Red Hood. They were both very well done, so I'm willing to bet the Superman ones will be equally satisfying to Superman fans.

[CT III]

It has been brought to my attention that TEC and SKO have never seen Cartoon Network's original run of the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited serieses.

If you've got any interest in the Justice League (and if you don't why are you reading this?) I can't recommend these enough.  The first two seasons focus on 7 members with last two seasons expanding the League to include all sorts of B-Listers.  In fact, if DC wants to just scrap the live action movies and pick the series back up, that'd be aces.

[Slaky]

It has been brought to my attention that TEC and SKO have never seen Cartoon Network's original run of the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited serieses.

If you've got any interest in the Justice League (and if you don't why are you reading this?) I can't recommend these enough.  The first two seasons focus on 7 members with last two seasons expanding the League to include all sorts of B-Listers.  In fact, if DC wants to just scrap the live action movies and pick the series back up, that'd be aces.

Do you own this on DVD or is it streaming somewhere?

[CT III]

It has been brought to my attention that TEC and SKO have never seen Cartoon Network's original run of the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited serieses.

If you've got any interest in the Justice League (and if you don't why are you reading this?) I can't recommend these enough.  The first two seasons focus on 7 members with last two seasons expanding the League to include all sorts of B-Listers.  In fact, if DC wants to just scrap the live action movies and pick the series back up, that'd be aces.

Do you own this on DVD or is it streaming somewhere?

I have a couple of seasons on DVD but back during its initial run I watched most of it OnDemand from Comcast, I doubt it's available there anymore but I have to believe it's on the internet somewhere.

[SKO]

I realize this is the Batman Books thread, but since Bort is the defender of The Last Son, can he, (or anyone else) recommend some Superman stories that might make me find the character compelling? I'll admit I've known Superman mostly through other mediums and his appearances in comics where he's not the central character, so I'm mostly ignorant of his own stories. I read most of the "Death of Superman" stuff back in the day when I could sneak them out of my brother's collection before he noticed and got pissed, and I've also read All-Star Superman because, well, Grant Morrison. Other than that, I'm a blank Superman slate.

[CT III]

I realize this is the Batman Books thread, but since Bort is the defender of The Last Son, can he, (or anyone else) recommend some Superman stories that might make me find the character compelling? I'll admit I've known Superman mostly through other mediums and his appearances in comics where he's not the central character, so I'm mostly ignorant of his own stories. I read most of the "Death of Superman" stuff back in the day when I could sneak them out of my brother's collection before he noticed and got pissed, and I've also read All-Star Superman because, well, Grant Morrison. Other than that, I'm a blank Superman slate.

Alan Moore's For the Man Who Has Everthing and Whatever Happened To the Man of Tomorrow are both very good.  I believe DC published a single volume "best of Alan Moore" that includes both stories, The Killing Joke and some other stuff.

This would be it: http://www.amazon.com/DC-Universe-Stories-Alan-Moore/dp/1401209270

[Bort]

Actually, I haven't read altogether that much Superman either. I just think Miller is hamfisted with him.

Some good ones:

Red Son, where Supes' rocket lands in the Soviet Union instead of Kansas.
Kryptonite, Darwyn Cooke and Tim Sale on a young Superman learning he isn't invulnerable after all.
Morrison's run on JLA has some great Supes moments
I've heard good things about Morrison's recent Action run.
Superman is taken out during a lot of Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier, but when he's in, he's done well, with a more nuanced take on his relationship with Batman. I would suggest this book to anyone who likes superheroes

Garth Ennis hates superheroes, but he manages to both nail Superman's strengths and weaknesses in Hitman #34. Hitman is worth reading in its entirety, but this standalone issue won an Eisner with good cause.

[Bort]

Speaking of maligned characters, I'm reading Robin: Year One. It's pretty good. The art is pretty choice.

EDIT: DPD

[Chuck to Chuck]

OK, inspired. Just picked up All-Star Supes 1 & 2, Long Halloween, and Boss (DVD).

Ain't public libraries awesome?