Cubs' Prospects FUTUREBONER thread

[Saul Goodman]

The real April Fool's joke is that you guys are taking Joe Fucking Sheehan seriously, right?

I am not familiar with whatever it is that forever discredited Sheehan from writing down thoughts on baseball.  But until you start your own newsletter, what choice do the rest of us have?

[Oleg]

The real April Fool's joke is that you guys are taking Joe Fucking Sheehan seriously, right?

I am not familiar with whatever it is that forever discredited Sheehan from writing down thoughts on baseball.  But until you start your own newsletter, what choice do the rest of us have?

I just realized I got him mixed up with Joel Fucking Sherman.  Sorry.  April Fool's?

[Powdered Toast Man]

The real April Fool's joke is that you guys are taking Joe Fucking Sheehan seriously, right?

I am not familiar with whatever it is that forever discredited Sheehan from writing down thoughts on baseball.  But until you start your own newsletter, what choice do the rest of us have?

I just realized I got him mixed up with Joel Fucking Sherman.  Sorry.  April Fool's?

Way to go, asshole.

[Saul Goodman]

The real April Fool's joke is that you guys are taking Joe Fucking Sheehan seriously, right?

I am not familiar with whatever it is that forever discredited Sheehan from writing down thoughts on baseball.  But until you start your own newsletter, what choice do the rest of us have?

I just realized I got him mixed up with Joel Fucking Sherman.  Sorry.  April Fool's?

Oh, Sherman, OF COURSE.  I thought you might have been thinking of Joe "Paterno Did Nothing Wrong, Also Please Buy My Book" Posnanski.  Too many Joe(l)s.

[SKO]

DPD.  Joe Sheehan on Addison Russell:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell? Russell's the far better shortstop and the more polished hitter, and only a spring injury prevented him from advancing to the majors last year. Russell doesn't have Baez's bat speed; on the other hand, he can tell a ball from a strike and has internalized the idea that you don't have to swing at every pitch. The bigger issue, to me, is defense. Russell is absolutely a shortstop in the majors, and of the Cubs' three candidates for the position, he's the best defender by far. Russell hit .302/.355/.529 at Double-A last year, with reasonable plate discipline numbers. For all of the attention paid to Kris Bryant and his demotion this spring, I'm far more interested in seeing how the Cubs handle their three shortstops, whether they quickly come around to the idea that Russell is the future, and how they align the other two with that idea in mind.

I wouldn't agree that Russell is "by far" better, defensively, than either of the other two, let alone Baez.

Still, 1060*'s looking pretty damn legit.

*Pen-approved nickname

Who is Sheehan talking to that views Baez as ahead of Russell, anyway?

Pretty sure Russell is ranked as a top five prospect by nearly everyone, which Javy is not, and just based on my own discussions with people and this messageboard it sure seems that most Cubs fans would rather part with Baez or Castro than part with Russell in all of their imaginary trades. Seems like a weird strawman he's arguing with.

I don't know that he's arguing with a straw man; I read that as stating the simple fact that Baez was promoted first.  Therefore, in most casual fans' minds — unlike the minds of pathetically obsessed sadsacks like us — he's ahead of Russell.  Javier isn't ranked as a top five prospect anymore because he exceeded rookie limits in 2014.  No longer a prospect.  He was right there at the top of the boards before then though.

Oh well it seems like he wasted a lot of time typing when he could have written this then:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?

No, no there is not.

Ok.

Sorry, I keep re-reading his quote and can't get past the first sentence: "is there a reason besides tenure Javy Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?" and I just don't think I was wrong to think he's implying that the consensus (or even just a lot of people) says that Javy> Addison. There really don't seem to be many, if any, people who think that, especially when Javy Baez just got sent down to AAA. If he's just talking about casual fans, like you said, who would think that Javy is ahead of Addison just because Javy got called up first, and not, say, the kind of people reading blogs about baseball prospects, why say that on a blog about baseball prospects?

Do we have a strawman arbiter or just an irony arbiter and a funny kinds of cancer arbiter? Because if we have a strawman arbiter I would like to officially state my case that Sheehan was implying there are a lot of people talking up Javy Baez as a better prospect than Addison Russell and I don't believe those people really exist.

[SKO]

DPD.  Joe Sheehan on Addison Russell:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell? Russell's the far better shortstop and the more polished hitter, and only a spring injury prevented him from advancing to the majors last year. Russell doesn't have Baez's bat speed; on the other hand, he can tell a ball from a strike and has internalized the idea that you don't have to swing at every pitch. The bigger issue, to me, is defense. Russell is absolutely a shortstop in the majors, and of the Cubs' three candidates for the position, he's the best defender by far. Russell hit .302/.355/.529 at Double-A last year, with reasonable plate discipline numbers. For all of the attention paid to Kris Bryant and his demotion this spring, I'm far more interested in seeing how the Cubs handle their three shortstops, whether they quickly come around to the idea that Russell is the future, and how they align the other two with that idea in mind.

I wouldn't agree that Russell is "by far" better, defensively, than either of the other two, let alone Baez.

Still, 1060*'s looking pretty damn legit.

*Pen-approved nickname

Who is Sheehan talking to that views Baez as ahead of Russell, anyway?

Pretty sure Russell is ranked as a top five prospect by nearly everyone, which Javy is not, and just based on my own discussions with people and this messageboard it sure seems that most Cubs fans would rather part with Baez or Castro than part with Russell in all of their imaginary trades. Seems like a weird strawman he's arguing with.

I don't know that he's arguing with a straw man; I read that as stating the simple fact that Baez was promoted first.  Therefore, in most casual fans' minds — unlike the minds of pathetically obsessed sadsacks like us — he's ahead of Russell.  Javier isn't ranked as a top five prospect anymore because he exceeded rookie limits in 2014.  No longer a prospect.  He was right there at the top of the boards before then though.

Oh well it seems like he wasted a lot of time typing when he could have written this then:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?

No, no there is not.

Ok.

Sorry, I keep re-reading his quote and can't get past the first sentence: "is there a reason besides tenure Javy Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?" and I just don't think I was wrong to think he's implying that the consensus (or even just a lot of people) says that Javy> Addison. There really don't seem to be many, if any, people who think that, especially when Javy Baez just got sent down to AAA. If he's just talking about casual fans, like you said, who would think that Javy is ahead of Addison just because Javy got called up first, and not, say, the kind of people reading blogs about baseball prospects, why say that on a blog about baseball prospects?

Do we have a strawman arbiter or just an irony arbiter and a funny kinds of cancer arbiter? Because if we have a strawman arbiter I would like to officially state my case that Sheehan was implying there are a lot of people talking up Javy Baez as a better prospect than Addison Russell and I don't believe those people really exist.

DPD, but if he was just stating the simple fact that Javy was called up first I feel like he could have pretty clearly just said "even though Javy has 200 major league ABs under his belt, Russell is already the better and more polished product" or whatever.

[SKO]

DPD.  Joe Sheehan on Addison Russell:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell? Russell's the far better shortstop and the more polished hitter, and only a spring injury prevented him from advancing to the majors last year. Russell doesn't have Baez's bat speed; on the other hand, he can tell a ball from a strike and has internalized the idea that you don't have to swing at every pitch. The bigger issue, to me, is defense. Russell is absolutely a shortstop in the majors, and of the Cubs' three candidates for the position, he's the best defender by far. Russell hit .302/.355/.529 at Double-A last year, with reasonable plate discipline numbers. For all of the attention paid to Kris Bryant and his demotion this spring, I'm far more interested in seeing how the Cubs handle their three shortstops, whether they quickly come around to the idea that Russell is the future, and how they align the other two with that idea in mind.

I wouldn't agree that Russell is "by far" better, defensively, than either of the other two, let alone Baez.

Still, 1060*'s looking pretty damn legit.

*Pen-approved nickname

Who is Sheehan talking to that views Baez as ahead of Russell, anyway?

Pretty sure Russell is ranked as a top five prospect by nearly everyone, which Javy is not, and just based on my own discussions with people and this messageboard it sure seems that most Cubs fans would rather part with Baez or Castro than part with Russell in all of their imaginary trades. Seems like a weird strawman he's arguing with.

I don't know that he's arguing with a straw man; I read that as stating the simple fact that Baez was promoted first.  Therefore, in most casual fans' minds — unlike the minds of pathetically obsessed sadsacks like us — he's ahead of Russell.  Javier isn't ranked as a top five prospect anymore because he exceeded rookie limits in 2014.  No longer a prospect.  He was right there at the top of the boards before then though.

Oh well it seems like he wasted a lot of time typing when he could have written this then:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?

No, no there is not.

What Sterling said.

Also, CT, is it ironic that SKO is criticizing a writer for their lack of brevity?

TPD: yes.

[Quality Start Machine]

Chicago does have access to a huge fresh water source though, so it's going to be prime real estate when the world economy collapses in the next few years. That should be boner time indeed.

And we've already rigged everything to float all of our piss and shit down to St. Louis.

Then they bottle it and sell it back to us as Budweiser.

[PenFoe]

DPD.  Joe Sheehan on Addison Russell:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell? Russell's the far better shortstop and the more polished hitter, and only a spring injury prevented him from advancing to the majors last year. Russell doesn't have Baez's bat speed; on the other hand, he can tell a ball from a strike and has internalized the idea that you don't have to swing at every pitch. The bigger issue, to me, is defense. Russell is absolutely a shortstop in the majors, and of the Cubs' three candidates for the position, he's the best defender by far. Russell hit .302/.355/.529 at Double-A last year, with reasonable plate discipline numbers. For all of the attention paid to Kris Bryant and his demotion this spring, I'm far more interested in seeing how the Cubs handle their three shortstops, whether they quickly come around to the idea that Russell is the future, and how they align the other two with that idea in mind.

I wouldn't agree that Russell is "by far" better, defensively, than either of the other two, let alone Baez.

Still, 1060*'s looking pretty damn legit.

*Pen-approved nickname

Who is Sheehan talking to that views Baez as ahead of Russell, anyway?

Pretty sure Russell is ranked as a top five prospect by nearly everyone, which Javy is not, and just based on my own discussions with people and this messageboard it sure seems that most Cubs fans would rather part with Baez or Castro than part with Russell in all of their imaginary trades. Seems like a weird strawman he's arguing with.

I don't know that he's arguing with a straw man; I read that as stating the simple fact that Baez was promoted first.  Therefore, in most casual fans' minds — unlike the minds of pathetically obsessed sadsacks like us — he's ahead of Russell.  Javier isn't ranked as a top five prospect anymore because he exceeded rookie limits in 2014.  No longer a prospect.  He was right there at the top of the boards before then though.

Oh well it seems like he wasted a lot of time typing when he could have written this then:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?

No, no there is not.

Ok.

Sorry, I keep re-reading his quote and can't get past the first sentence: "is there a reason besides tenure Javy Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?" and I just don't think I was wrong to think he's implying that the consensus (or even just a lot of people) says that Javy> Addison. There really don't seem to be many, if any, people who think that, especially when Javy Baez just got sent down to AAA. If he's just talking about casual fans, like you said, who would think that Javy is ahead of Addison just because Javy got called up first, and not, say, the kind of people reading blogs about baseball prospects, why say that on a blog about baseball prospects?

Do we have a strawman arbiter or just an irony arbiter and a funny kinds of cancer arbiter? Because if we have a strawman arbiter I would like to officially state my case that Sheehan was implying there are a lot of people talking up Javy Baez as a better prospect than Addison Russell and I don't believe those people really exist.

Can we get the irony arbiter to rule about SKO claiming someone else made up a strawman?

[SKO]

DPD.  Joe Sheehan on Addison Russell:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell? Russell's the far better shortstop and the more polished hitter, and only a spring injury prevented him from advancing to the majors last year. Russell doesn't have Baez's bat speed; on the other hand, he can tell a ball from a strike and has internalized the idea that you don't have to swing at every pitch. The bigger issue, to me, is defense. Russell is absolutely a shortstop in the majors, and of the Cubs' three candidates for the position, he's the best defender by far. Russell hit .302/.355/.529 at Double-A last year, with reasonable plate discipline numbers. For all of the attention paid to Kris Bryant and his demotion this spring, I'm far more interested in seeing how the Cubs handle their three shortstops, whether they quickly come around to the idea that Russell is the future, and how they align the other two with that idea in mind.

I wouldn't agree that Russell is "by far" better, defensively, than either of the other two, let alone Baez.

Still, 1060*'s looking pretty damn legit.

*Pen-approved nickname

Who is Sheehan talking to that views Baez as ahead of Russell, anyway?

Pretty sure Russell is ranked as a top five prospect by nearly everyone, which Javy is not, and just based on my own discussions with people and this messageboard it sure seems that most Cubs fans would rather part with Baez or Castro than part with Russell in all of their imaginary trades. Seems like a weird strawman he's arguing with.

I don't know that he's arguing with a straw man; I read that as stating the simple fact that Baez was promoted first.  Therefore, in most casual fans' minds — unlike the minds of pathetically obsessed sadsacks like us — he's ahead of Russell.  Javier isn't ranked as a top five prospect anymore because he exceeded rookie limits in 2014.  No longer a prospect.  He was right there at the top of the boards before then though.

Oh well it seems like he wasted a lot of time typing when he could have written this then:

Is there some reason other than tenure why Javier Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?

No, no there is not.

Ok.

Sorry, I keep re-reading his quote and can't get past the first sentence: "is there a reason besides tenure Javy Baez is thought of as ahead of Addison Russell?" and I just don't think I was wrong to think he's implying that the consensus (or even just a lot of people) says that Javy> Addison. There really don't seem to be many, if any, people who think that, especially when Javy Baez just got sent down to AAA. If he's just talking about casual fans, like you said, who would think that Javy is ahead of Addison just because Javy got called up first, and not, say, the kind of people reading blogs about baseball prospects, why say that on a blog about baseball prospects?

Do we have a strawman arbiter or just an irony arbiter and a funny kinds of cancer arbiter? Because if we have a strawman arbiter I would like to officially state my case that Sheehan was implying there are a lot of people talking up Javy Baez as a better prospect than Addison Russell and I don't believe those people really exist.

Can we get the irony arbiter to rule about SKO claiming someone else made up a strawman?

Can I get the shut your stupid facehole Pen arbiter to rule that Pen can shut his stupid facehole

[Oleg]

After thinking about this all afternoon, I do think that Sheehan has a point.

Let's say that Castro gets hurt on May 1.  Who gets the call-up?  If your answer is Russell, I think you're wrong and I think many in the industry would think you're wrong.  Baez, as it currently stands, is higher on the depth chart than Russell.  That may not be the case by the All-Star break (I kind of hope it's still the case cause it would mean Baez is having a damn good year) but it is the case now.

Russell has just over 1000 PA in the minors, including 13 in AAA.
Baez has 1350 PA in the minors, including 430 in AAA.  Plus, whatever he got in the majors last year.

I'm not saying the depth chart is right or wrong but I can see why Baez is thought of to be "ahead" of Russell right now.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

After thinking about this all afternoon, I do think that Sheehan has a point.

Let's say that Castro gets hurt on May 1.  Who gets the call-up?  If your answer is Russell, I think you're wrong and I think many in the industry would think you're wrong.  Baez, as it currently stands, is higher on the depth chart than Russell.  That may not be the case by the All-Star break (I kind of hope it's still the case cause it would mean Baez is having a damn good year) but it is the case now.

Russell has just over 1000 PA in the minors, including 13 in AAA.
Baez has 1350 PA in the minors, including 430 in AAA.  Plus, whatever he got in the majors last year.

I'm not saying the depth chart is right or wrong but I can see why Baez is thought of to be "ahead" of Russell right now.

Intrepid Reader: SKO

Shut up, you dirty Cossack.

[SKO]

After thinking about this all afternoon, I do think that Sheehan has a point.

Let's say that Castro gets hurt on May 1.  Who gets the call-up?  If your answer is Russell, I think you're wrong and I think many in the industry would think you're wrong.  Baez, as it currently stands, is higher on the depth chart than Russell.  That may not be the case by the All-Star break (I kind of hope it's still the case cause it would mean Baez is having a damn good year) but it is the case now.

Russell has just over 1000 PA in the minors, including 13 in AAA.
Baez has 1350 PA in the minors, including 430 in AAA.  Plus, whatever he got in the majors last year.

I'm not saying the depth chart is right or wrong but I can see why Baez is thought of to be "ahead" of Russell right now.

Intrepid Reader: SKO

Shut up, you dirty Cossack.

It's "you lousy damn Cossack" but otherwise spot on

[Quality Start Machine]

After thinking about this all afternoon, I do think that Sheehan has a point.

Let's say that Castro gets hurt on May 1.  Who gets the call-up?  If your answer is Russell, I think you're wrong and I think many in the industry would think you're wrong.  Baez, as it currently stands, is higher on the depth chart than Russell.  That may not be the case by the All-Star break (I kind of hope it's still the case cause it would mean Baez is having a damn good year) but it is the case now.

Russell has just over 1000 PA in the minors, including 13 in AAA.
Baez has 1350 PA in the minors, including 430 in AAA.  Plus, whatever he got in the majors last year.

I'm not saying the depth chart is right or wrong but I can see why Baez is thought of to be "ahead" of Russell right now.

If Castro got hurt, they'd also have the option of putting Alcantara at short and bringing somebody else up. The point of Baez in Iowa is for him to figure out the strike zone and make contact. Throwing him back into the big league fire before that and you just got yourself the next Corey Patterson or Felix Pie.

[SKO]

After thinking about this all afternoon, I do think that Sheehan has a point.

Let's say that Castro gets hurt on May 1.  Who gets the call-up?  If your answer is Russell, I think you're wrong and I think many in the industry would think you're wrong.  Baez, as it currently stands, is higher on the depth chart than Russell.  That may not be the case by the All-Star break (I kind of hope it's still the case cause it would mean Baez is having a damn good year) but it is the case now.

Russell has just over 1000 PA in the minors, including 13 in AAA.
Baez has 1350 PA in the minors, including 430 in AAA.  Plus, whatever he got in the majors last year.

I'm not saying the depth chart is right or wrong but I can see why Baez is thought of to be "ahead" of Russell right now.

Also if all you're using is Baez having more experience and ABs doesn't that just go back to my original glib answer of "no" for Sheehan's question about whether there's any reason other than tenure to put Baez ahead of Russell?  The fact is consensus is most definitely that Russell is the better prospect,  depth chart be damned (if we're going depth chart would Sheehan say Olt is ahead of Bryant?). Sheehan's sentence made it sound like the consensus is Baez> Russell and I don't think that's remotely true.