Jake Arrieta 2017 Salary Drive Sploogefest

[CubFaninHydePark]

Arrieta was ok but he gave up a run that fucking overpaid assshole piece of shit they could have had Liriano instead.

Yeah the Liriano suggestion is even dumber than the fucking Lester hate. This the same Liriano who has never pitched 200 innings?  That the guy you wanna give 3 years to?

The same guy who is missing more bats than anyone but Sale and putting up a WAR that is basically identical to Lester's (fangraphs) or 1.6 better than Lester's (baseball reference)...at basically half the cost?

Yeah, that'd be terrible.

[SKO]

Arrieta was ok but he gave up a run that fucking overpaid assshole piece of shit they could have had Liriano instead.

Yeah the Liriano suggestion is even dumber than the fucking Lester hate. This the same Liriano who has never pitched 200 innings?  That the guy you wanna give 3 years to?

The same guy who is missing more bats than anyone but Sale and putting up a WAR that is basically identical to Lester's (fangraphs) or 1.6 better than Lester's (baseball reference)...at basically half the cost?

Yeah, that'd be terrible.

Yeah because one should never consider a guy's complete fucking inability to stay healthy for a full season in his entire fucking career before handing out multi year deals.

[Bort]

Arrieta was ok but he gave up a run that fucking overpaid assshole piece of shit they could have had Liriano instead.

Yeah the Liriano suggestion is even dumber than the fucking Lester hate. This the same Liriano who has never pitched 200 innings?  That the guy you wanna give 3 years to?

The same guy who is missing more bats than anyone but Sale and putting up a WAR that is basically identical to Lester's (fangraphs) or 1.6 better than Lester's (baseball reference)...at basically half the cost?

Yeah, that'd be terrible.

Yeah because one should never consider a guy's complete fucking inability to stay healthy for a full season in his entire fucking career before handing out multi year deals.

Forget about it SKO, it's CUBSFANINHYDEPARKTOWN.

[Saul Goodman]

More boring dominance. Yawn.

[Quality Start Machine]

More boring dominance. Yawn.

The trade that brought Arietta here is quickly moving into Larry Jackson/Fergie Jenkins territory.

[Brownie]

More boring dominance. Yawn.

The trade that brought Arietta here is quickly moving into Larry Jackson/Fergie Jenkins territory.

I would say easily Jepstink's best Cubs trade to date, but the Snork/Hammel for Russell and McKinney provides strong competition. Just as an aside, what were the best trades (and the worst) the last few Cubs GMs executed?

Hoyer/Epstein
Best: Arrieta and Strop (and money for International signings) for Feldman and Clevenger
Hon. Mention: Russell, McKinney and Straily (and money) for Samardzija and Hammel; Cashner and a minor leaguer for Rizzo and a minor leaguer
Worst:  Dexter Fowler for Straily and Valbuena

Hendry
Best: Kenny Lofton and Aramis Ramirez and money for Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez and Matt Bruback.
Hon. Mention: Lee for Choi; Grudzielanek and Karros for Todd Hundley
Worst: Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement for Dontrelle Willis and Julian Tavarez.
Dis. Mention: Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin for Matt Murton, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, and Josh Donaldson.

Ed Lynch
Best: Lieber for Brant Brown
Hon. Mention: Luis Gonzalez and Scott Servais for Rick Wilkins
Worst: Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

Larry Himes
Best: Sosa and Ken Patterson for George Bell
Hon. Mention: Steve Buechele for Danny Jackson? Kevin Foster for Shawn Boskie? Greg Hibbard for Alex Arias and Gary Scott? Jose Hernandez for Heathcliff Slocumb? Glenallen Hill for Candy Maldonado
Worst: Larry Luebbers, Darron Cox and Mike Anderson for Chuck McElroy

Jim Frey
Best: Lloyd McLendon for Rolando Roomes
Hon. Mention: Jose Vizcaino for Greg Smith; Yorkis Perez and Turk Wendell for Berryhill and Bielecki; Paul Assenmacher for Kelly Mann and Pat Gomez
Worst: Schiraldi and Nipper for Lee Smith
Dishonorable Mention: Mitch Williams, Paul Kilgus, Curtis Wilkerson, Steve Wilson, Pablo Delgado and Luis Benitez for Drew Hall, Jamie Moyer and Rafael Palmeiro; Mitch Webster for David Martinez

Dallas Green
Best: Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus
Hon. Mention: Rick Sutcliffe, George Frazier and Ron Hassey for Joe Carter, Don Schulze and Mel Hall
Worst: Brian Guinn, David Wilder and Mark Leonette for Dan Rohn and Dennis Eckersley.
Dishonorable Mention: Jerry Mumphrey for Billy Hatcher and Steve Engel. Fritzie Connally, Craig Lefferts and Carmelo Martinez for Scott Sanderson

Larry Himes didn't do a lot in the way of trades (besides the Sosa trade), but he did his damage in the free agent market. Ed Lynch and Jim Frey were awful. Hendry wasn't great, but in hindsight he held his own. Green and Jepstink are capable of making bad trades, but even their worst are defensible.

[SKO]

More boring dominance. Yawn.

The trade that brought Arietta here is quickly moving into Larry Jackson/Fergie Jenkins territory.

I would say easily Jepstink's best Cubs trade to date, but the Snork/Hammel for Russell and McKinney provides strong competition. Just as an aside, what were the best trades (and the worst) the last few Cubs GMs executed?

Hoyer/Epstein
Best: Arrieta and Strop (and money for International signings) for Feldman and Clevenger
Hon. Mention: Russell, McKinney and Straily (and money) for Samardzija and Hammel; Cashner and a minor leaguer for Rizzo and a minor leaguer
Worst:  Dexter Fowler for Straily and Valbuena

Hendry
Best: Kenny Lofton and Aramis Ramirez and money for Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez and Matt Bruback.
Hon. Mention: Lee for Choi; Grudzielanek and Karros for Todd Hundley
Worst: Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement for Dontrelle Willis and Julian Tavarez.
Dis. Mention: Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin for Matt Murton, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, and Josh Donaldson.

Ed Lynch
Best: Lieber for Brant Brown
Hon. Mention: Luis Gonzalez and Scott Servais for Rick Wilkins
Worst: Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

Larry Himes
Best: Sosa and Ken Patterson for George Bell
Hon. Mention: Steve Buechele for Danny Jackson? Kevin Foster for Shawn Boskie? Greg Hibbard for Alex Arias and Gary Scott? Jose Hernandez for Heathcliff Slocumb? Glenallen Hill for Candy Maldonado
Worst: Larry Luebbers, Darron Cox and Mike Anderson for Chuck McElroy

Jim Frey
Best: Lloyd McLendon for Rolando Roomes
Hon. Mention: Jose Vizcaino for Greg Smith; Yorkis Perez and Turk Wendell for Berryhill and Bielecki; Paul Assenmacher for Kelly Mann and Pat Gomez
Worst: Schiraldi and Nipper for Lee Smith
Dishonorable Mention: Mitch Williams, Paul Kilgus, Curtis Wilkerson, Steve Wilson, Pablo Delgado and Luis Benitez for Drew Hall, Jamie Moyer and Rafael Palmeiro; Mitch Webster for David Martinez

Dallas Green
Best: Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus
Hon. Mention: Rick Sutcliffe, George Frazier and Ron Hassey for Joe Carter, Don Schulze and Mel Hall
Worst: Brian Guinn, David Wilder and Mark Leonette for Dan Rohn and Dennis Eckersley.
Dishonorable Mention: Jerry Mumphrey for Billy Hatcher and Steve Engel. Fritzie Connally, Craig Lefferts and Carmelo Martinez for Scott Sanderson

Larry Himes didn't do a lot in the way of trades (besides the Sosa trade), but he did his damage in the free agent market. Ed Lynch and Jim Frey were awful. Hendry wasn't great, but in hindsight he held his own. Green and Jepstink are capable of making bad trades, but even their worst are defensible.

Dexter Fowler has been a disappointment, but I have no idea who the Cubs would even have ended up with in CF this year without that trade. I think "someone worse than Dexter Fowler" is a pretty good answer, and Valbuena was expendable.  I'd say that trade is just meh.

The Ian Stewart trade was a crap one. Not to overrate LeMahieu but Theo still undoubtedly lost that trade. Regardless the man hasn't really given away much they'll regret losing.

Also refuse to blame Hendry for trading away Josh Donaldson for Rich Harden. Harden was great down the stretch and that team should have won the fucking world series. That was a great win now move and Donaldson at the time was a college catcher failing to hit at low A ball.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Dallas Green
Best: Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus
Hon. Mention: Rick Sutcliffe, George Frazier and Ron Hassey for Joe Carter, Don Schulze and Mel Hall
Worst: Brian Guinn, David Wilder and Mark Leonette for Dan Rohn and Dennis Eckersley.
Dishonorable Mention: Jerry Mumphrey for Billy Hatcher and Steve Engel. Fritzie Connally, Craig Lefferts and Carmelo Martinez for Scott Sanderson

Dennis Eckersley and Mike Brumley to the Chicago Cubs for Bill Buckner is Honorable Mention worthy.

[InternetApex]

More boring dominance. Yawn.

The trade that brought Arietta here is quickly moving into Larry Jackson/Fergie Jenkins territory.

I would say easily Jepstink's best Cubs trade to date, but the Snork/Hammel for Russell and McKinney provides strong competition. Just as an aside, what were the best trades (and the worst) the last few Cubs GMs executed?

Hoyer/Epstein
Best: Arrieta and Strop (and money for International signings) for Feldman and Clevenger
Hon. Mention: Russell, McKinney and Straily (and money) for Samardzija and Hammel; Cashner and a minor leaguer for Rizzo and a minor leaguer
Worst:  Dexter Fowler for Straily and Valbuena

Hendry
Best: Kenny Lofton and Aramis Ramirez and money for Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez and Matt Bruback.
Hon. Mention: Lee for Choi; Grudzielanek and Karros for Todd Hundley
Worst: Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement for Dontrelle Willis and Julian Tavarez.
Dis. Mention: Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin for Matt Murton, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, and Josh Donaldson.

Ed Lynch
Best: Lieber for Brant Brown
Hon. Mention: Luis Gonzalez and Scott Servais for Rick Wilkins
Worst: Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

Larry Himes
Best: Sosa and Ken Patterson for George Bell
Hon. Mention: Steve Buechele for Danny Jackson? Kevin Foster for Shawn Boskie? Greg Hibbard for Alex Arias and Gary Scott? Jose Hernandez for Heathcliff Slocumb? Glenallen Hill for Candy Maldonado
Worst: Larry Luebbers, Darron Cox and Mike Anderson for Chuck McElroy

Jim Frey
Best: Lloyd McLendon for Rolando Roomes
Hon. Mention: Jose Vizcaino for Greg Smith; Yorkis Perez and Turk Wendell for Berryhill and Bielecki; Paul Assenmacher for Kelly Mann and Pat Gomez
Worst: Schiraldi and Nipper for Lee Smith
Dishonorable Mention: Mitch Williams, Paul Kilgus, Curtis Wilkerson, Steve Wilson, Pablo Delgado and Luis Benitez for Drew Hall, Jamie Moyer and Rafael Palmeiro; Mitch Webster for David Martinez

Dallas Green
Best: Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus
Hon. Mention: Rick Sutcliffe, George Frazier and Ron Hassey for Joe Carter, Don Schulze and Mel Hall
Worst: Brian Guinn, David Wilder and Mark Leonette for Dan Rohn and Dennis Eckersley.
Dishonorable Mention: Jerry Mumphrey for Billy Hatcher and Steve Engel. Fritzie Connally, Craig Lefferts and Carmelo Martinez for Scott Sanderson

Larry Himes didn't do a lot in the way of trades (besides the Sosa trade), but he did his damage in the free agent market. Ed Lynch and Jim Frey were awful. Hendry wasn't great, but in hindsight he held his own. Green and Jepstink are capable of making bad trades, but even their worst are defensible.

Dexter Fowler has been a disappointment, but I have no idea who the Cubs would even have ended up with in CF this year without that trade. I think "someone worse than Dexter Fowler" is a pretty good answer, and Valbuena was expendable.  I'd say that trade is just meh.

The Ian Stewart trade was a crap one. Not to overrate LeMahieu but Theo still undoubtedly lost that trade. Regardless the man hasn't really given away much they'll regret losing.

Also refuse to blame Hendry for trading away Josh Donaldson for Rich Harden. Harden was great down the stretch and that team should have won the fucking world series. That was a great win now move and Donaldson at the time was a college catcher failing to hit at low A ball.

Not to mention, that trade removed the stink of Matt Murton from the franchise forever. That's an epic win. I think TJ typed the Valbuena trade under worst with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek.

[SKO]

More boring dominance. Yawn.

The trade that brought Arietta here is quickly moving into Larry Jackson/Fergie Jenkins territory.

I would say easily Jepstink's best Cubs trade to date, but the Snork/Hammel for Russell and McKinney provides strong competition. Just as an aside, what were the best trades (and the worst) the last few Cubs GMs executed?

Hoyer/Epstein
Best: Arrieta and Strop (and money for International signings) for Feldman and Clevenger
Hon. Mention: Russell, McKinney and Straily (and money) for Samardzija and Hammel; Cashner and a minor leaguer for Rizzo and a minor leaguer
Worst:  Dexter Fowler for Straily and Valbuena

Hendry
Best: Kenny Lofton and Aramis Ramirez and money for Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez and Matt Bruback.
Hon. Mention: Lee for Choi; Grudzielanek and Karros for Todd Hundley
Worst: Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement for Dontrelle Willis and Julian Tavarez.
Dis. Mention: Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin for Matt Murton, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, and Josh Donaldson.

Ed Lynch
Best: Lieber for Brant Brown
Hon. Mention: Luis Gonzalez and Scott Servais for Rick Wilkins
Worst: Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

Larry Himes
Best: Sosa and Ken Patterson for George Bell
Hon. Mention: Steve Buechele for Danny Jackson? Kevin Foster for Shawn Boskie? Greg Hibbard for Alex Arias and Gary Scott? Jose Hernandez for Heathcliff Slocumb? Glenallen Hill for Candy Maldonado
Worst: Larry Luebbers, Darron Cox and Mike Anderson for Chuck McElroy

Jim Frey
Best: Lloyd McLendon for Rolando Roomes
Hon. Mention: Jose Vizcaino for Greg Smith; Yorkis Perez and Turk Wendell for Berryhill and Bielecki; Paul Assenmacher for Kelly Mann and Pat Gomez
Worst: Schiraldi and Nipper for Lee Smith
Dishonorable Mention: Mitch Williams, Paul Kilgus, Curtis Wilkerson, Steve Wilson, Pablo Delgado and Luis Benitez for Drew Hall, Jamie Moyer and Rafael Palmeiro; Mitch Webster for David Martinez

Dallas Green
Best: Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus
Hon. Mention: Rick Sutcliffe, George Frazier and Ron Hassey for Joe Carter, Don Schulze and Mel Hall
Worst: Brian Guinn, David Wilder and Mark Leonette for Dan Rohn and Dennis Eckersley.
Dishonorable Mention: Jerry Mumphrey for Billy Hatcher and Steve Engel. Fritzie Connally, Craig Lefferts and Carmelo Martinez for Scott Sanderson

Larry Himes didn't do a lot in the way of trades (besides the Sosa trade), but he did his damage in the free agent market. Ed Lynch and Jim Frey were awful. Hendry wasn't great, but in hindsight he held his own. Green and Jepstink are capable of making bad trades, but even their worst are defensible.

Dexter Fowler has been a disappointment, but I have no idea who the Cubs would even have ended up with in CF this year without that trade. I think "someone worse than Dexter Fowler" is a pretty good answer, and Valbuena was expendable.  I'd say that trade is just meh.

The Ian Stewart trade was a crap one. Not to overrate LeMahieu but Theo still undoubtedly lost that trade. Regardless the man hasn't really given away much they'll regret losing.

Also refuse to blame Hendry for trading away Josh Donaldson for Rich Harden. Harden was great down the stretch and that team should have won the fucking world series. That was a great win now move and Donaldson at the time was a college catcher failing to hit at low A ball.

Not to mention, that trade removed the stink of Matt Murton from the franchise forever. That's an epic win. I think TJ typed the Valbuena trade under worst with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek.

He also noted that even Theo's "bad" trades are at least defensible. I just defensed it.

[Brownie]

Shit, forgot about Ian Stewart.

I am sure Andy would suggest that Valbuena could play third and Bryant could play center, but aside from that, it's a perfectly defensible trade, and Fowler could start being good at baseball again. (and I wouldn't have listed it as the worst if I remembered Ian Stewart).

These were all off the top of my mind, and then I went to Baseball Reference to verify they were what I thought they were. The Harden trade was defensible, but it was a lot of young talent for an injury risk, and Harden rarely pitched past the sixth all season.

Hendry had plenty of strengths, and he was an upgrade over Ed Lynch. His shortcoming was in contract negotiations and minor league scouting. And in the latter department, we're seeing that he wasn't that bad. That all said, Theo/Jed are better in nearly every criteria by which you'd judge a front office.

Ed Lynch was an arrogant prick who had no idea what he was doing. Plus, he threw at Keith Moreland in August 1984, and Zonk should have killed him with his bare hands so he wouldn't get traded to the Cubs and give up a million runs in 1986 and 1987, and then become soul-crushing GM. He had one fucking job in July 1998: land Randy Fucking Johnson.

Larry Himes and Jim Frey had no idea how the free agent thing worked. Frey really had no idea how to generally manage, beyond his hiring of Jim Essian, who is a suspect in the tragic disappearance of a Naperville attorney who went by the name of Kermit.

Dallas Green's biggest talent was his encyclopedic knowledge of the Phillies system and a pretty good idea how to build an organizational structure. Without Dallas Green (and Jim Finks, who is also responsible for the Bears' 1980s renaissance), this franchise would have a very different look today.

[SKO]

Shit, forgot about Ian Stewart.

I am sure Andy would suggest that Valbuena could play third and Bryant could play center, but aside from that, it's a perfectly defensible trade, and Fowler could start being good at baseball again.

These were all off the top of my mind, and then I went to Baseball Reference to verify they were what I thought they were. The Harden trade was defensible, but it was a lot of young talent for an injury risk, and Harden rarely pitched past the sixth all season.

Hendry had plenty of strengths, and he was an upgrade over Ed Lynch. His shortcoming was in contract negotiations and minor league scouting. And in the latter department, we're seeing that he wasn't that bad. That all said, Theo/Jed are better in nearly every criteria by which you'd judge a front office.

Ed Lynch was an arrogant prick who had no idea what he was doing. Plus, he threw at Keith Moreland in August 1984, and Zonk should have killed him with his bare hands so he wouldn't get traded to the Cubs and give up a million runs in 1986 and 1987, and then become soul-crushing GM. He had one fucking job in July 1998: land Randy Fucking Johnson.

Larry Himes and Jim Frey had no idea how the free agent thing worked. Frey really had no idea how to generally manage, beyond his hiring of Jim Essian, who is a suspect in the tragic disappearance of a Naperville attorney who went by the name of Kermit.

Dallas Green's biggest talent was his encyclopedic knowledge of the Phillies system and a pretty good idea how to build an organizational structure. Without Dallas Green (and Jim Finks, who is also responsible for the Bears' 1980s renaissance), this franchise would have a very different look today.

Can I ask who you are referring to by that? Javy? Mendy? Am I missing any Hendry draftees who are contributing in a meaningful way?

[Brownie]

Shit, forgot about Ian Stewart.

I am sure Andy would suggest that Valbuena could play third and Bryant could play center, but aside from that, it's a perfectly defensible trade, and Fowler could start being good at baseball again.

These were all off the top of my mind, and then I went to Baseball Reference to verify they were what I thought they were. The Harden trade was defensible, but it was a lot of young talent for an injury risk, and Harden rarely pitched past the sixth all season.

Hendry had plenty of strengths, and he was an upgrade over Ed Lynch. His shortcoming was in contract negotiations and minor league scouting. And in the latter department, we're seeing that he wasn't that bad. That all said, Theo/Jed are better in nearly every criteria by which you'd judge a front office.

Ed Lynch was an arrogant prick who had no idea what he was doing. Plus, he threw at Keith Moreland in August 1984, and Zonk should have killed him with his bare hands so he wouldn't get traded to the Cubs and give up a million runs in 1986 and 1987, and then become soul-crushing GM. He had one fucking job in July 1998: land Randy Fucking Johnson.

Larry Himes and Jim Frey had no idea how the free agent thing worked. Frey really had no idea how to generally manage, beyond his hiring of Jim Essian, who is a suspect in the tragic disappearance of a Naperville attorney who went by the name of Kermit.

Dallas Green's biggest talent was his encyclopedic knowledge of the Phillies system and a pretty good idea how to build an organizational structure. Without Dallas Green (and Jim Finks, who is also responsible for the Bears' 1980s renaissance), this franchise would have a very different look today.

Can I ask who you are referring to by that? Javy? Mendy? Am I missing any Hendry draftees who are contributing in a meaningful way?

Here are a few:

LeMahieu, Javy, Jeff Samardzija, Sean Marshall, Andrew Cashner, Darwin Barney, Casey McGehee, Sam Fuld, Brandon Guyer, James Russell, Matt Szcuzr.

He also drafted Tim Lincecum and Sonny Gray but failed to sign them.

[SKO]

Shit, forgot about Ian Stewart.

I am sure Andy would suggest that Valbuena could play third and Bryant could play center, but aside from that, it's a perfectly defensible trade, and Fowler could start being good at baseball again.

These were all off the top of my mind, and then I went to Baseball Reference to verify they were what I thought they were. The Harden trade was defensible, but it was a lot of young talent for an injury risk, and Harden rarely pitched past the sixth all season.

Hendry had plenty of strengths, and he was an upgrade over Ed Lynch. His shortcoming was in contract negotiations and minor league scouting. And in the latter department, we're seeing that he wasn't that bad. That all said, Theo/Jed are better in nearly every criteria by which you'd judge a front office.

Ed Lynch was an arrogant prick who had no idea what he was doing. Plus, he threw at Keith Moreland in August 1984, and Zonk should have killed him with his bare hands so he wouldn't get traded to the Cubs and give up a million runs in 1986 and 1987, and then become soul-crushing GM. He had one fucking job in July 1998: land Randy Fucking Johnson.

Larry Himes and Jim Frey had no idea how the free agent thing worked. Frey really had no idea how to generally manage, beyond his hiring of Jim Essian, who is a suspect in the tragic disappearance of a Naperville attorney who went by the name of Kermit.

Dallas Green's biggest talent was his encyclopedic knowledge of the Phillies system and a pretty good idea how to build an organizational structure. Without Dallas Green (and Jim Finks, who is also responsible for the Bears' 1980s renaissance), this franchise would have a very different look today.

Can I ask who you are referring to by that? Javy? Mendy? Am I missing any Hendry draftees who are contributing in a meaningful way?

Here are a few:

LeMahieu, Javy, Jeff Samardzija, Sean Marshall, Andrew Cashner, Darwin Barney, Casey McGehee, Sam Fuld, Brandon Guyer, James Russell, Matt Szcuzr.

He also drafted Tim Lincecum and Sonny Gray but failed to sign them.

Am I being trolled here

[Quality Start Machine]

Dishonorable Mention: Mitch Williams, Paul Kilgus, Curtis Wilkerson, Steve Wilson, Pablo Delgado and Luis Benitez for Drew Hall, Jamie Moyer and Rafael Palmeiro; Mitch Webster for David Martinez

Losing Moyer and Palmiero sucked, but the Cubs don't win the division in '89 without Mitch.