Jake Arrieta 2017 Salary Drive Sploogefest

[Brownie]

By the time the playoffs rolled around, though, Maddux was clearly the ace and he got the Game 1 nod.  

And he shit the bed. He was young. He was scared. Zimmer screwed up those playoffs a great deal. But not starting Sut Game 1 was a bad move.

Hindsight. 

Sutcliffe was their third best pitcher that year and pitched Game 3 (and lost).  Maddux was a two-time All-Star by the time the '89 playoffs rolled around.  If Zimmer was to be criticized for anything it'd be for leaving Bielecki in too long in Game 5, but you're only knocking the decision to start Maddux in Game 1 with the benefit of 25 years of hindsight.  I PROMISE you not a single person questioned that decision at the time.

I did. The day they announced it I said I wanted Sut in game 1 then. Sadly, no internet exists to prove it. And I was two weeks short of starting my banking career so no co-workers to prove how pissed I was about it.

Rather than call bullshit--which is my first inclination-- I'll take this at face value and simply point out that you were every bit the counter-intuitive & contradictory walking Ball of Wrong in 1989 that you are today.

Maddux wasn't an All-Star in 1989; Sutcliffe was. Lasorda had Sutcliffe  (whom he hated) pitch two innings in relief of Rick Reuschel in th All-Star Game in Anaheim. Sutcliffe pitched in relief on Sunday (win over L.A.) and went 6 Friday in a win over L.A.

I think Sutcliffe traced his subsequent arm troubles to the week. And we all saw that.

Maddux was the Ace. He should have shut down The Thrill in Game One. Bielecki won Game 2. If Lancaster didn't forget the count....

I stand corrected. I had just assumed Maddux was a 2-time All-Star since he busted out in '88 and made the team. I just assumed he made it again in '89.  I had no recollection of  Sutcliffe making the All-Star team in '89. In spite of the fact that Sutcliffe ended up as the #3 starter, I sorta feel like I owe Chuck an apology.

You owe Chuck nothing. Sutcliffe was the truth before the ASG, and then was a cripple the rest of the way. It was a marvel to see him get through September without amputating his arm.

Maddux, meanwhile, was Madduxian in the second half.

[CBStew]

I take the blame for losing the NLCS in 1989.  The NLCS fell on Yom Kippur in 1989.  Mrs. CBStew and I took an afternoon break to go to Candlestick.  God punished us.

[Chuck to Chuck]

I take the blame for losing the NLCS in 1989.  The NLCS fell on Yom Kippur in 1989.  Mrs. CBStew and I took an afternoon break to go to Candlestick.  God punished us.

And with an earthquake a few days later.

[CBStew]

I take the blame for losing the NLCS in 1989.  The NLCS fell on Yom Kippur in 1989.  Mrs. CBStew and I took an afternoon break to go to Candlestick.  God punished us.

And with an earthquake a few days later.

Not my fault!    (I'll leave now)

[Chuck to Chuck]

By the time the playoffs rolled around, though, Maddux was clearly the ace and he got the Game 1 nod.  

And he shit the bed. He was young. He was scared. Zimmer screwed up those playoffs a great deal. But not starting Sut Game 1 was a bad move.

Hindsight. 

Sutcliffe was their third best pitcher that year and pitched Game 3 (and lost).  Maddux was a two-time All-Star by the time the '89 playoffs rolled around.  If Zimmer was to be criticized for anything it'd be for leaving Bielecki in too long in Game 5, but you're only knocking the decision to start Maddux in Game 1 with the benefit of 25 years of hindsight.  I PROMISE you not a single person questioned that decision at the time.

I did. The day they announced it I said I wanted Sut in game 1 then. Sadly, no internet exists to prove it. And I was two weeks short of starting my banking career so no co-workers to prove how pissed I was about it.

Rather than call bullshit--which is my first inclination-- I'll take this at face value and simply point out that you were every bit the counter-intuitive & contradictory walking Ball of Wrong in 1989 that you are today.

Maddux wasn't an All-Star in 1989; Sutcliffe was. Lasorda had Sutcliffe  (whom he hated) pitch two innings in relief of Rick Reuschel in th All-Star Game in Anaheim. Sutcliffe pitched in relief on Sunday (win over L.A.) and went 6 Friday in a win over L.A.

I think Sutcliffe traced his subsequent arm troubles to the week. And we all saw that.

Maddux was the Ace. He should have shut down The Thrill in Game One. Bielecki won Game 2. If Lancaster didn't forget the count....

I stand corrected. I had just assumed Maddux was a 2-time All-Star since he busted out in '88 and made the team. I just assumed he made it again in '89.  I had no recollection of  Sutcliffe making the All-Star team in '89. In spite of the fact that Sutcliffe ended up as the #3 starter, I sorta feel like I owe Chuck an apology.

You owe Chuck nothing. Sutcliffe was the truth before the ASG, and then was a cripple the rest of the way. It was a marvel to see him get through September without amputating his arm.

Maddux, meanwhile, was Madduxian in the second half.

Sutcliffe from July 16 to October 1: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=sutclri01&t=p&year=1989&share=0.32#336-352-sum:pitching_gamelogs

103 IP, 3.84 ERA, .255/.320/.386/.706 against.

Maddux from July 16 to October 1: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=maddugr01&t=p&year=1989&share=3.66#90-105-sum:pitching_gamelogs

103 IP, 3.04 ERA, .265/.320/.382/.702 against.

Pretty fucking close.

[Saul Goodman]

By the time the playoffs rolled around, though, Maddux was clearly the ace and he got the Game 1 nod.  

And he shit the bed. He was young. He was scared. Zimmer screwed up those playoffs a great deal. But not starting Sut Game 1 was a bad move.

Hindsight. 

Sutcliffe was their third best pitcher that year and pitched Game 3 (and lost).  Maddux was a two-time All-Star by the time the '89 playoffs rolled around.  If Zimmer was to be criticized for anything it'd be for leaving Bielecki in too long in Game 5, but you're only knocking the decision to start Maddux in Game 1 with the benefit of 25 years of hindsight.  I PROMISE you not a single person questioned that decision at the time.

I did. The day they announced it I said I wanted Sut in game 1 then. Sadly, no internet exists to prove it. And I was two weeks short of starting my banking career so no co-workers to prove how pissed I was about it.

Rather than call bullshit--which is my first inclination-- I'll take this at face value and simply point out that you were every bit the counter-intuitive & contradictory walking Ball of Wrong in 1989 that you are today.

Maddux wasn't an All-Star in 1989; Sutcliffe was. Lasorda had Sutcliffe  (whom he hated) pitch two innings in relief of Rick Reuschel in th All-Star Game in Anaheim. Sutcliffe pitched in relief on Sunday (win over L.A.) and went 6 Friday in a win over L.A.

I think Sutcliffe traced his subsequent arm troubles to the week. And we all saw that.

Maddux was the Ace. He should have shut down The Thrill in Game One. Bielecki won Game 2. If Lancaster didn't forget the count....

I stand corrected. I had just assumed Maddux was a 2-time All-Star since he busted out in '88 and made the team. I just assumed he made it again in '89.  I had no recollection of  Sutcliffe making the All-Star team in '89. In spite of the fact that Sutcliffe ended up as the #3 starter, I sorta feel like I owe Chuck an apology.

You owe Chuck nothing. Sutcliffe was the truth before the ASG, and then was a cripple the rest of the way. It was a marvel to see him get through September without amputating his arm.

Maddux, meanwhile, was Madduxian in the second half.

Sutcliffe from July 16 to October 1: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=sutclri01&t=p&year=1989&share=0.32#336-352-sum:pitching_gamelogs

103 IP, 3.84 ERA, .255/.320/.386/.706 against.

Maddux from July 16 to October 1: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=maddugr01&t=p&year=1989&share=3.66#90-105-sum:pitching_gamelogs

103 IP, 3.04 ERA, .265/.320/.382/.702 against.

Pretty fucking close.

Except for almost a full run more in ERA, you mean?

[InternetApex]

I was 13 months old during that NLCS.
I just wanted to point out that you are all really fucking old Internet Chuck was an insufferable douche long before the Internet became widely available.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Last 5 starts of 1989:

Rick Sutcliffe:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
28.0    31    11    11    7    22    2    1    3.54    120    .284    .331    .431    .762

Greg Maddux:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
33.1    40    18    15    5    23    2    1    4.05    141    .310    .333    .450    .783

[InternetApex]

I was 13 months old during that NLCS.
I just wanted to point out that you are all really fucking old Internet Chuck was an insufferable douche long before the Internet became widely available.

[Eli]

Last 5 starts of 1989:

Rick Sutcliffe:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
28.0    31    11    11    7    22    2    1    3.54    120    .284    .331    .431    .762

Greg Maddux:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
33.1    40    18    15    5    23    2    1    4.05    141    .310    .333    .450    .783

That really doesn't prove anything.

[SKO]

Last 5 starts of 1989:

Rick Sutcliffe:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
28.0    31    11    11    7    22    2    1    3.54    120    .284    .331    .431    .762

Greg Maddux:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
33.1    40    18    15    5    23    2    1    4.05    141    .310    .333    .450    .783

That really doesn't prove anything.

So basically Zimmer had two guys who had pitched roughly the same over their last month and he opted to go with the younger guy who had the better overall season and Chuck has held a grudge over it for 26 years even though the guy he wanted to start lost his game, too.

This is bad even for Chuck.

[Quality Start Machine]

Last 5 starts of 1989:

Rick Sutcliffe:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
28.0    31    11    11    7    22    2    1    3.54    120    .284    .331    .431    .762

Greg Maddux:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
33.1    40    18    15    5    23    2    1    4.05    141    .310    .333    .450    .783

That really doesn't prove anything.

So basically Zimmer had two guys who had pitched roughly the same over their last month and he opted to go with the younger guy who had the better overall season and Chuck has held a grudge over it for 26 years even though the guy he wanted to start lost his game, too.

This is bad even for Chuck.

Fucking Les Lancaster.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Last 5 starts of 1989:

Rick Sutcliffe:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
28.0    31    11    11    7    22    2    1    3.54    120    .284    .331    .431    .762

Greg Maddux:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
33.1    40    18    15    5    23    2    1    4.05    141    .310    .333    .450    .783

That really doesn't prove anything.

Kinda contras, "Sutcliffe was the truth before the ASG, and then was a cripple the rest of the way. It was a marvel to see him get through September without amputating his arm."

Pretty sure Sutcliffe blamed his arm injury on coming back too soon from his hamstring injury he suffered in 1985.

[Saul Goodman]

contras

No, Chuck.

[Brownie]

Last 5 starts of 1989:

Rick Sutcliffe:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
28.0    31    11    11    7    22    2    1    3.54    120    .284    .331    .431    .762

Greg Maddux:
IP    H    R    ER    BB    SO    HR    HBP    ERA    BF    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
33.1    40    18    15    5    23    2    1    4.05    141    .310    .333    .450    .783

That really doesn't prove anything.

It does prove that Maddux went an inning longer per start than Sutcliffe.

Also, this:

CHICAGO — Cubs ace pitcher Rick Sutcliffe has an ailing right shoulder and probably will miss his next start, Manager Don Zimmer says.

Sutcliffe, who pitched just 12/3 Wednesday for his shortest outing in four years, could be questionable for the playoffs if the Cubs qualify and his condition doesn't improve.

"He's got a sore shoulder," Zimmer said. "I don't want to pitch a guy when he's hurt."

Sutcliffe, who has just two wins in his last six starts, is reluctant to discuss his condition. "It's not any different than it's been," he said. Sore or stiff? "A combination of both."

Sutcliffe has historically been reluctant to say he's hurting and this time, news of a possible injury apparently came through trainer John Fierro. Zimmer said, "Every time I sent him out, I asked him if he was 100% and he said he was all right. I wouldn't have sent him out if he wasn't."

Sutcliffe is scheduled to pitch again Monday but Zimmer said he isn't counting on it. Said Sutcliffe, "The only reason I won't pitch Monday is if Zim doesn't want me to pitch."