Javier Baez 2014 ROY-MVP-World Series MVP Thread

[InternetApex]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

[SKO]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

[CT III]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

[SKO]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

[Saul Goodman]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

I mocked his dumb point last time and I'll do it again. Russell's the best at the 9 spot in the order so let's leave him there! Best since Zambrano!
Kyle Long is the best at right guard so why move him to left tackle? Best since Garza!
[Hypothetical Competent Cubs Reliever] gets a ton of guys out, better leave him where he's at instead of using him in higher leverage situations! Best since Sean Marshall!

I'm not convinced that Javier is unquestionably the superior defender therefore his existence precludes anyone else from playing it. Let's see if Addison is as good as advertised there. What's the harm? And if it gets Starlin Castro's limp-dick bat out of the lineup, all the better.

[SKO]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

I mocked his dumb point last time and I'll do it again. Russell's the best at the 9 spot in the order so let's leave him there! Best since Zambrano!
Kyle Long is the best at right guard so why move him to left tackle? Best since Garza!
[Hypothetical Competent Cubs Reliever] gets a ton of guys out, better leave him where he's at instead of using him in higher leverage situations! Best since Sean Marshall!

I'm not convinced that Javier is unquestionably the superior defender therefore his existence precludes anyone else from playing it. Let's see if Addison is as good as advertised there. What's the harm? And if it gets Starlin Castro's limp-dick bat out of the lineup, all the better.

The point was to leave Addison in the 9 hole because there was no pressure on him and he was bound to hit a rough patch, he then hit like total ass for an entire month, and would probably have gotten more shit for it were he batting 5th while doing so. He should obviously bat higher in the order once he's an established big league hitter.

Kyle Long is an elite NFL guard and statistically most pressure in the NFL actually comes from the interior. Green Bay has had a revolving door of tackles during the Aaron Rodgers era but they have an effective quick passing game because they have two stellar guards and Josh Sitton never allows anyone to get past him. There's nothing other than antiquated ideas about The Blind Side that indicate it's a smart move take a really good guard and make him a tackle just because you think tackles are more important when there's actually no empirical data to support this.

All I asked was if it was at all possible that Addison actually is a better second baseman than he will be a shortstop, and what the value is between having the best overall defensive second baseman in the game (which he is, already, as a rookie) vs. say, hypothetically, a top 15-20ish shorstop. I didn't even say not to move him, I said can someone actually demonstrate that the difference between the two is so great that there's no reason not to try Javy at SS?

Again, we have no idea which one of them is a better shorstop. You're saying "why not try Addison at SS?" , I'm saying "why not try Javy?". In the end I don't care, Javy may never play another game as a Cub. This game is stupid and I have no problem with Addison Russell at SS, I was just asking if it's at all possible he might have more value at 2B where he's already top of the game.

[CT III]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

[Brownie]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

Well, one who knows how to spell anoint might also point out that Ozzie was not a career Cardinal, but a Padre for four seasons.

[CT III]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

Well, one who knows how to spell anoint might also point out that Ozzie was not a career Cardinal, but a Padre for four seasons.

Well...thanks for picking up the spare?

[SKO]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

Well, one who knows how to spell anoint might also point out that Ozzie was not a career Cardinal, but a Padre for four seasons.

He was a Cardinal for over a decade. I was aware he started with a different team, just had no idea the Desipio Style Guide was so strict about usage of the term Career Cardinal. Are Santo and Billy Williams not Career Cubs by your definition then?

[Bort]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

Well, one who knows how to spell anoint might also point out that Ozzie was not a career Cardinal, but a Padre for four seasons.

He was a Cardinal for over a decade. I was aware aware started with a different team, just had no idea the Desipio Style Guide was so strict about usage of the term Career Cardinal. Are Santo and Billy Williams not Career Cubs by your definition then?

This is the dumbest Desipio argument since the last one.

[Brownie]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

Well, one who knows how to spell anoint might also point out that Ozzie was not a career Cardinal, but a Padre for four seasons.

He was a Cardinal for over a decade. I was aware he started with a different team, just had no idea the Desipio Style Guide was so strict about usage of the term Career Cardinal. Are Santo and Billy Williams not Career Cubs by your definition then?

Nope.

[ChuckD]

Would like to reiterate that while I am fine with Russell moving to SS, I am also equally fine with him just being the most dominant defensive second baseman in the majors already and would be cool with them trying to make Javy stick at SS.

I mean Russell's so good he'd probably be a fine defensive SS, but if he's already the best defensive 2B as a rookie is that worth messing with? I feel like sometimes SS is a bit overrated vs second base in terms of that being where your best defender has to play. Maybe ChuckD can show some numbers as to how many runs the best 2B saves each year vs the best SS or whatever.

This. I keep hearing Russell being compared to Barry Larkin, which is fine. But I haven't seen a second baseman like this since Ryno. He's fucking amazing.

Well I mean if shortstops really can be worth that much more than second basemen, I get making the switch if you think Addison can be that good over there, but I kinda feel part of that is just the perception of the position. It's like right vs left tackle in the NFL. Every study ever done shows that there's really no real difference between the two and that both need to be good at pass blocking, but teams still pay way more for "left tackles". I'm wondering if SS vs second base is that much of a gap that it's worth messing with what Addison's got going on over there.

Fucking stop it. Shortstop is a lot more demanding and if the kid has the gun to play the position, you move him. Best 2nd Baseman since Ryno... What in the entire fuck.

If you're confused by this concept, head out to your local dirt lot and have a friend pound grounders to you at both spots and see if even your own beltless ass doesn't get the picture.

Well my point is "see if Baez can play SS." I mean from what I saw of him last year and his raw talent Javy doesn't seem to be a slouch there, either. Addison is kicking ass at 2B. If Javy can stick at SS, let Addison stay where he is. If Javy can't be a good SS, then switch 'em. Just give Javy a shot first.

They're both shortstops that have mostly played 2B in the majors. Javy was good at 2B, and Addison has been awesome at 2B. Therefore Addison is the better defender, so he should play SS.

I'll take that a step further and say that whoever is the better shortstop should play shortstop.

Big, if true. Do we know that Russell is the better SS or is that just a reputation thing. There are things we know we know, which is that Addison is a great second baseman, and there are things that we know we don't know, like is Baez a good shortstop, but one must admit an unknown unknown is that we don't know that we don't know Baez is worse at SS than Russell, or something.

At this point I'd just like to have a middle infielder in the lineup who can maintain an OPS over .700, and we can crown the next Ozzie Smith later.

Seems kinda weird to wait for a guy to have an OPS over .700 before annointing him the next Ozzie Smith (career OPS of .666, appropriate for a career Cardinal) IMO.

I never said the guy with the .700 OPS would also be the one anointed Ozzie Smith. And I spelled "anoint" correctly.

Well, one who knows how to spell anoint might also point out that Ozzie was not a career Cardinal, but a Padre for four seasons.

He was a Cardinal for over a decade. I was aware aware started with a different team, just had no idea the Desipio Style Guide was so strict about usage of the term Career Cardinal. Are Santo and Billy Williams not Career Cubs by your definition then?

This is the dumbest Desipio argument since the last one.

All I want to know is whether Micah Hoffpauir and Roosevelt Brown are "career Cubs."

[ChuckD]

Also, you guys probably won't be interested to learn that Starlin now has the third most games played among players who played their entire careers for the Cubs.

Here's everyone with 162+.

Code Select Expand

Rank Name GP
1 Ernie Banks 2528
2 Stan Hack 1938
3 Starlin Castro 838
4 Bill Lange 811
5 Ch. Hollocher 760
6 Lennie Merullo 639
7 Don Johnson 511
8 Bob Will 410
9 Bill Serena 408
10 Ken Hubbs 324
11 Jiggs Parrott 318
12 Jim Connor 293
13 Footsie Blair 246
14 Roosevelt Brown 228
15 Gene Hiser 206
16 Denver Grigsby 199
17 Clay Bryant 185
18 Carl Lundgren 183
19 Junior Lake 172
20 Babe Twombly 165
21 Micah Hoffpauir 162

[SKO]

Also, you guys probably won't be interested to learn that Starlin now has the third most games played among players who played their entire careers for the Cubs.

Here's everyone with 162+.

Code Select Expand

Rank Name GP
1 Ernie Banks 2528
2 Stan Hack 1938
3 Starlin Castro 838
4 Bill Lange 811
5 Ch. Hollocher 760
6 Lennie Merullo 639
7 Don Johnson 511
8 Bob Will 410
9 Bill Serena 408
10 Ken Hubbs 324
11 Jiggs Parrott 318
12 Jim Connor 293
13 Footsie Blair 246
14 Roosevelt Brown 228
15 Gene Hiser 206
16 Denver Grigsby 199
17 Clay Bryant 185
18 Carl Lundgren 183
19 Junior Lake 172
20 Babe Twombly 165
21 Micah Hoffpauir 162

Santo ain't a true Career Cub like Ken Hubbs. That guy literally died rather than play for another team.