Gotham

[CBStew]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

[SKO]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

[Bort]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

Christopher Nolan, too.

[SKO]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.

Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One  (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.

That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.

[CBStew]

...
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

Then explain Gary, Indiana.

[Bort]

...
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

Then explain Gary, Indiana.

Gary is the inexplicable thing that ruins all theoretical systems.

[Slaky]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.

Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One  (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.

That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.

I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.

I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.

[Bort]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.

Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One  (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.

That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.

I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.

I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.

I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.

[Slaky]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.

Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One  (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.

That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.

I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.

I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.

I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.

And, like SKO and many others have said, supervillains don't exist except as a response to Batman. Which means we're just watching a detective show. I still have no idea what the Selina Kyle character is going to do.

[Bort]

I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.

Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it.  "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence.  Does the sun ever shine?  If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows.  Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white.  The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing.  Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in  red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that. 

Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.

Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.

I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.

Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One  (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.

That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.

I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.

I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.

I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.

And, like SKO and many others have said, supervillains don't exist except as a response to Batman. Which means we're just watching a detective show. I still have no idea what the Selina Kyle character is going to do.

Grow up and become a burglar?

I'm fine with this being a detective show, to be honest. I wish they'd have done it Gotham Central style, where regular people have to deal with a world where Batman is a thing, but honestly, outside of comics, it's hard to get a superhero story past the origin. They may do some time jumps, but it's clear the mission statement is "Batman Minus Batman."

[ChuckD]

"Batman Minus Batman."

JERRY: And it's about nothing?

GEORGE: Absolutely nothing.

JERRY: So you're saying, I go in to NBC FOX, and tell them I got this idea for a show about nothing.

GEORGE: We go into NBC FOX.

JERRY: "We"? Since when are you a writer?

GEORGE: (Scoffs) Writer. We're talking about a sit-com police procedural.

JERRY: You want to go with me to NBC FOX?

GEORGE: Yeah. I think we really go something here.

JERRY: What do we got?

GEORGE: An idea.

JERRY: What idea?

GEORGE: An idea for the show.

JERRY: I still don't know what the idea is.

GEORGE: It's about nothing.

JERRY: Right.

GEORGE: Everybody's doing something, we'll do nothing.

JERRY: So, we go into NBC FOX, we tell them we've got an idea for a show about nothing.

GEORGE: Exactly.

JERRY: They say, "What's your show about?" I say, "Nothing."

GEORGE: There you go.

(A moment passes)

JERRY: (Nodding) I think you may have something there.

[SKO]

I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.

I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.

I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.

And, like SKO and many others have said, supervillains don't exist except as a response to Batman. Which means we're just watching a detective show. I still have no idea what the Selina Kyle character is going to do.

Grow up and become a burglar?

I'm fine with this being a detective show, to be honest. I wish they'd have done it Gotham Central style, where regular people have to deal with a world where Batman is a thing, but honestly, outside of comics, it's hard to get a superhero story past the origin. They may do some time jumps, but it's clear the mission statement is "Batman Minus Batman."

Which is funny because the initial idea for Smallville was to do a show about young Bruce Wayne's journey into becoming Batman, but they felt it was cruel to show him doing all of this work and then never show him in the cape. So they opted to do that with Superman instead because fuck Superman is WB's official policy. But ten years later here we are.

[SKO]

I also agree that I like it as just a detective show, but the Penguin element needs to stay. I'd pretty much watch this show stripped off all Batman ties if it was just Idealistic Cop in Corrupt City tries to stop brewing mob war as really weird, awkward sociopath murders and scams his way to the top of said criminal empire. Those storylines are working. The rest not so much. The last two episodes have pretty much followed this formula.

[SKO]

Also I say this a lot but for those of you who are watching this because "Yay Comics" and not "eh this looks okay as long as it's not too comic-y" I have to strongly recommend The Flash and Arrow. You have to put up with a fair share of stupid CW melodrama but The Flash especially is pretty loyal to the comics canon and has been highly entertaining through the first three episodes. The first two seasons of Arrow are on Netflix. If you can just get through the first half of season one it really picks up steam, and season two was all kinds of batshit crazy in a good way, with Deathstroke showing up to just do some over the top supervillain shit. The Suicide Squad even makes a couple appearances.