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Author Topic: 2015: The Back To The Future Season  ( 119,733 )

Saul Goodman

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #720 on: August 09, 2015, 05:37:18 PM »
From the SF Chronicle story:

QuoteThe Giants were swept in a four-game series here for the first time since 1977. It had been reported that the previous time was 1963. In fact, the four-game sweep in '77 included a start in the finale by a young Cubs pitcher named Mike Krukow.

CUBS SLEEPER AGENT!  We have them too.
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InternetApex

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #721 on: August 10, 2015, 09:14:40 AM »
In 2003, the Cubs were in fact built on three power arms and we learned the hard way that, such a commodity is the most fragile in all of baseball. Teams built around those that have been most successful had waves of talent coming up to support or replace them. Cain and Lincecum aren't very good at baseball anymore and the Giants didn't stop winning World Series titles. Hendry built around his young power arms with huge commitments and no-trade clauses that made those particular power arms the be all end all. Because if Wood, Prior and Zambrano were not the perennial aces they projected to be, there was nothing to deal away to bring a replacement, no flexibility in the payroll to sign enough help. And there was nothing of note in that farm system that looked like help. And if it was there (insert list of useful players somebody had on here earlier) that braintrust didn't see it or couldn't develop it to pan out. Plus most of them were blocked by 30-something billionaires by the time they were ready.

In short, we're smarter now for having seen what didn't work before. And better still, while we were watching that horrorshow play out, Theo was building a team that won three World ass Series and contended for the playoffs year after god damn year. He built a team that kicked the Christ out of the Cardinals in October twice - that rhymed.

If you think the difference between Epstink and Hendry is mostly P.R. then either pay the fuck attention or log the fuck off. 
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SKO

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #722 on: August 10, 2015, 09:21:50 AM »
I don't really think that the Eli meant that literally the only difference between Epstink and Hendry is PR. I think he means that the Zen derives from Epstink and Co. doing a fantastic job of getting everyone to buy into the notion that either A) this team is ahead of schedule or B) this is just year one of a long window.

With Hendry, most of us felt pretty good about things even after the NLCS fallout and thought the team still had a bright future and that the org looked to be much closer to a run of sustained success than it actually was. I think hindsight has led a lot of us to forget that. Sure, in 07 and 08 we were far more aware that it was a WIN NOW situation and thus more crushed when they lost. In October of 03 we thought they'd be back, and so if they lose an NLCS this year it's probably still going to hurt and it's still something to lament because maybe they won't get another shot at it.
I will vow, for the sake of peace, not to complain about David Ross between now and his first start next year- 10/26/2015

InternetApex

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #723 on: August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM »
Quote from: SKO on August 10, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
I don't really think that the Eli meant that literally the only difference between Epstink and Hendry is PR. I think he means that the Zen derives from Epstink and Co. doing a fantastic job of getting everyone to buy into the notion that either A) this team is ahead of schedule or B) this is just year one of a long window.

With Hendry, most of us felt pretty good about things even after the NLCS fallout and thought the team still had a bright future and that the org looked to be much closer to a run of sustained success than it actually was. I think hindsight has led a lot of us to forget that.

I'm not sure about Zen when it comes to sports. To me that was never the goal. What kind of turd doesn't get excited and despondent over results during the course of his favorite team's season? What I was feeling about two weeks ago when the sky was falling out the back of Cole Hamels' open pajama bottoms was that it was going to be fun to watch a young and talented roster develop over two months. And I know that this front office is competent enough to keep building on good, because they always have. That's not Public Relations. I watched Boston win the World Series three times. I've seen Anthony Rizzo, Kris Bryant and Jake Arrieta play baseball. I've seen Joe Maddon get the most out of guys I thought were semi-decent and some who were supposed win Cy Youngs.

I guess Eli doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to have and express bad feelings about what might happen down the road, that's on him. But I feel like this is what we all signed up for when we decided to become Cubs fans and fuck if it isn't finally here. Shirtless hugs are here at last. Bring it in.
The 39th Tenet of Pexism: True in the game as long as blood is blue in my vein.

Eli

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #724 on: August 10, 2015, 09:40:29 AM »
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
I guess Eli doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to have and express bad feelings about what might happen down the road, that's on him.

Why would I want that? That isn't what's happening here.

InternetApex

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #725 on: August 10, 2015, 09:41:55 AM »
Quote from: Eli on August 10, 2015, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
I guess Eli doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to have and express bad feelings about what might happen down the road, that's on him.

Why would I want that? That isn't what's happening here.

QuoteThat's not to say the Cubs don't have an excellent shot at a World Series in the next 0-6 years. But if they blow a chance this year or next and people act like it's no big deal, that's going to be annoying and I'm going to totally subtweet them.
The 39th Tenet of Pexism: True in the game as long as blood is blue in my vein.

Eli

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #726 on: August 10, 2015, 09:51:08 AM »
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
Quote from: Eli on August 10, 2015, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
I guess Eli doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to have and express bad feelings about what might happen down the road, that's on him.

Why would I want that? That isn't what's happening here.

QuoteThat's not to say the Cubs don't have an excellent shot at a World Series in the next 0-6 years. But if they blow a chance this year or next and people act like it's no big deal, that's going to be annoying and I'm going to totally subtweet them.

Didn't you basically just say the same thing?

Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
What kind of turd doesn't get excited and despondent over results during the course of his favorite team's season?

InternetApex

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #727 on: August 10, 2015, 09:57:06 AM »
Quote from: Eli on August 10, 2015, 09:51:08 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
Quote from: Eli on August 10, 2015, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
I guess Eli doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to have and express bad feelings about what might happen down the road, that's on him.

Why would I want that? That isn't what's happening here.

QuoteThat's not to say the Cubs don't have an excellent shot at a World Series in the next 0-6 years. But if they blow a chance this year or next and people act like it's no big deal, that's going to be annoying and I'm going to totally subtweet them.

Didn't you basically just say the same thing?

Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
What kind of turd doesn't get excited and despondent over results during the course of his favorite team's season?

Yeah, but I was... I... fuck.

In the context of your glass half-empty persona, I read your statement to be more negative than perhaps you intended.
The 39th Tenet of Pexism: True in the game as long as blood is blue in my vein.

Eli

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #728 on: August 10, 2015, 10:03:25 AM »
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:57:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on August 10, 2015, 09:51:08 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
Quote from: Eli on August 10, 2015, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
I guess Eli doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to have and express bad feelings about what might happen down the road, that's on him.

Why would I want that? That isn't what's happening here.

QuoteThat's not to say the Cubs don't have an excellent shot at a World Series in the next 0-6 years. But if they blow a chance this year or next and people act like it's no big deal, that's going to be annoying and I'm going to totally subtweet them.

Didn't you basically just say the same thing?

Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
What kind of turd doesn't get excited and despondent over results during the course of his favorite team's season?

Yeah, but I was... I... fuck.

In the context of your glass half-empty persona, I read your statement to be more negative than perhaps you intended.

That's not unjustified. I still don't think I'm as glass-half-empty as people think, but that's on me. You reap what you sow.

Brownie

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #729 on: August 10, 2015, 10:44:44 AM »
Quote from: InternetApex on August 10, 2015, 09:14:40 AM
In 2003, the Cubs were in fact built on three power arms and we learned the hard way that, such a commodity is the most fragile in all of baseball. Teams built around those that have been most successful had waves of talent coming up to support or replace them. Cain and Lincecum aren't very good at baseball anymore and the Giants didn't stop winning World Series titles. Hendry built around his young power arms with huge commitments and no-trade clauses that made those particular power arms the be all end all. Because if Wood, Prior and Zambrano were not the perennial aces they projected to be, there was nothing to deal away to bring a replacement, no flexibility in the payroll to sign enough help. And there was nothing of note in that farm system that looked like help. And if it was there (insert list of useful players somebody had on here earlier) that braintrust didn't see it or couldn't develop it to pan out. Plus most of them were blocked by 30-something billionaires by the time they were ready.

In short, we're smarter now for having seen what didn't work before. And better still, while we were watching that horrorshow play out, Theo was building a team that won three World ass Series and contended for the playoffs year after god damn year. He built a team that kicked the Christ out of the Cardinals in October twice - that rhymed.

We don't have the time to outline all the improvements this regime has made over the previous one. But let's not get carried away. After 1998, the Cubs saw that they had two building blocks, Sammy and Kerry Wood. The MacPhail/Lynch/Hendry regime decided that they could put most of their resources into building a staff built around Kerry Wood and let Sosa carry the lineup. They flipped Brant Brown for Jon Lieber, and had Wood been healthy, maybe a team with a rotation of veterans Steve Trachsel, Kevin Tapani and Terry Mulholland could buttress a front end of the rotation featuring Lieber and Wood. The lineup was a bunch of old people: 35-year old Mark Grace, 40-year-old Gary Gaetti, aging Mickey Morandini, Lance Johnson and Benito Santiago. They all were built around Sammy and Henry Rodriguez. Unfortunately, Wood was lost for the season, Trachsel and Tapani were awful and people like Andrew Lorraine and a young Kyle Farnsworth. The Cubs were in the race in May when they traded for Rick Aguilera. OK, 1999, was a lost year, but they tried reloading in the offseason, getting Ismael Valdez and Eric Young and Ricky Gutierrez). Wood and Lieber were the building blocks, but Wood wasn't quite ready and Valdez was a flop. 2001 might have been less of a fluke. The Cubs had Wood and Lieber pretty strong at the start of the rotation, and Sosa was otherworldly. You can build around these guys while acquisitions like Tom Gordon and Todd Hundley were evidence management intended on competing. In 2002, they were terrible for unknown reasons (bad bullpen, maybe). They added Matt Clement (and in late May, Mark Prior), Lieber and Moises Alou to what they had the year before. Sosa had begun his descent to earth, though, but this team was getting younger behind its pitching.

After 2003, they improved, adding Derrek Lee, Michael Barrett and Greg Maddux. As late as the last week in September, most reasonable people expected the Cubs to be in the playoffs, and this team was built for a short series, especially with Prior and Wood seemingly healthy. In 2005, Nomar's groin separated from his leg and the Cubs sputtered as Wood and Prior were on and off the DL constantly. In 2006, Derrek Lee missed 100-plus games. At this point, the team was built around D-Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano. The Tribune greenlighted a spending spree and brought in Lou, because they wanted to sell the team and because there was a chance to win. They had a team well-positioned to go to the Series in 2007 and 2008, and they competed in 2009.

1998 was year 1
1999 and 2000, lost years, were years 2 and 3
2001 was year 4.
2002, another lost year, was year 5
2003 was year 6
2004 was year 7
2005 was year 8
2006, another lost year was year 9
2007 was year 10
2008 was year 11
2009 was year 12
It was obvious as 2010 progressed that the window had slammed shut.

You might even argue that the window had cracked open in 1995, and that Sandberg's return temporarily shut the window.

What I'm trying to say is that the previous regime had a sustained window, but didn't make as good decisions as how I am evaluating JepstinkMcLeod to be making. This is quite clearly year 1. MacPhail/Lynch/Hendry were able to squeeze 12 years out of the Wood-Sosa core they had in 1998. The Cardinals seem to be on the back end of a run started in 1996. Yes, they won four pennants and two Series in that window, but if managed correctly, we could be looking at a 20-year window.

Quality Start Machine

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #730 on: August 10, 2015, 10:50:41 AM »
Quote from: flannj on August 09, 2015, 04:44:53 PM

What a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

What a nice way to lose all your stomach lining.
TIME TO POST!

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R-V

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #731 on: August 10, 2015, 02:19:03 PM »
So based on Maddon's comments about how he was going to play the matchups when it came to getting Starlin in the lineup, I was taking a look at his 2015 splits. Woof. I guess Joe should play him in the 9th or extra innings in road games?

Chuck to Chuck

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #732 on: August 10, 2015, 02:25:56 PM »
Quote from: R-V on August 10, 2015, 02:19:03 PM
So based on Maddon's comments about how he was going to play the matchups when it came to getting Starlin in the lineup, I was taking a look at his 2015 splits. Woof. I guess Joe should play him in the 9th or extra innings in road games?

His pinch hitting splits this year are: .000/.000/.000/.000   

Saul Goodman

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #733 on: August 10, 2015, 02:35:35 PM »
Quote from: R-V on August 10, 2015, 02:19:03 PM
So based on Maddon's comments about how he was going to play the matchups when it came to getting Starlin in the lineup, I was taking a look at his 2015 splits. Woof. I guess Joe should play him in the 9th or extra innings in road games?

If the calendar suddenly switches to April/March, I think he'd be a great option.
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Powdered Toast Man

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Re: 2015: The Back To The Future Season
« Reply #734 on: August 10, 2015, 03:29:21 PM »
Just random nothingness I guess, but the Cubs home and away records are identical at 31-24.
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