Joe Maddon: The Man Behind the Glasses

[Eli]

Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.

So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.

But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.

[Canadouche]

If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.

Joe fucked up good

It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.

He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.

Joe putting his trust in his former closer in the 8th is an understandable decision, although I think most of us would agree it was the wrong one.

If the Cubs lose the series, I would put the blame on the fact that the pitching has been responsible for more runs than the rest of the offense. Rizzo, in particular, has been awful. The Cubs bats need to wake up, and if they don't, that is why they will have lost.

[SKO]

If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.

Joe fucked up good

It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.

He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.

Joe putting his trust in his former closer in the 8th is an understandable decision, although I think most of us would agree it was the wrong one.

If the Cubs lose the series, I would put the blame on the fact that the pitching has been responsible for more runs than the rest of the offense. Rizzo, in particular, has been awful. The Cubs bats need to wake up, and if they don't, that is why they will have lost.

I always hate this line of reasoning. Yes, the offense should do better, etc. But this is October and the Giants pitch well and sometimes 3 runs in a game started by Madison Bumgarner are all you're going to get. You need to win games where guys don't hit well if you still manage to carry a lead into the 8th inning. If they lose two more games and lose this series, of course there'd be things that are probably more worthy of blame than Joe mismanaging the 8th inning, but the fact of the matter is he did fuck it up and it did potentially cost them the ballgame and hand-waving it away because "players need to do better, too" excuses far too many managerial sins. He did not put his team in the best position to win, that's on him.

That said, I actually think Joe tends to learn from his mistakes, and rather than trying to play matchups next time they have a set up like last night I'd bet he just puts Chapman in to face the heart of the order if they are due again in the 8th rather than dicking around first.

[CubFaninHydePark]

Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.

So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.

But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.

Maybe, but Francona's use of Andrew Miller seems to come from a bullpen management paradigm entirely different than Joe's, and one that I think is correct.

I just wish Joe had given the 8th to Chapman and the 9th to Rondon

[R-V]

Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.

So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.

But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.

Maybe, but Francona's use of Andrew Miller seems to come from a bullpen management paradigm entirely different than Joe's, and one that I think is correct.

I just wish Joe had given the 8th to Chapman and the 9th to Rondon

I agree with this. I do think there is something to giving your back-end guys a clean inning to start with. I would've let Strop finish the 7th, and then gone Chapman to start the 8th. If he gets through it with a lead and without throwing 30 pitches, you send him back out for the 9th. That also prevents you from burning Rondon & Wood in case it goes extras.

[Eli]

Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.

So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.

But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.

Maybe, but Francona's use of Andrew Miller seems to come from a bullpen management paradigm entirely different than Joe's, and one that I think is correct.

I just wish Joe had given the 8th to Chapman and the 9th to Rondon

I agree with this. I do think there is something to giving your back-end guys a clean inning to start with. I would've let Strop finish the 7th, and then gone Chapman to start the 8th. If he gets through it with a lead and without throwing 30 pitches, you send him back out for the 9th. That also prevents you from burning Rondon & Wood in case it goes extras.

I think Joe had a regular-season mentality with that inning, like he was trying to sneak by with Wood/Rondon and not use Chapman unless he had to. That makes sense in June when you're thinking long haul and wanting to conserve guys. But there's no benefit to "getting by" with lesser pitchers in the postseason (to a point).

This all makes more sense in my head but I'm probably too tired to properly articulate it.

[Tony]

Didn't Chapman say he doesn't like to come in the game in the middle of an inning? That was the most important thing to me. If that's what he needs to be comfortable, then so be it. Eli is right... he was managing like a regular season game trying to squeeze more out of lesser relievers, but then he managed Chapman like a post season game by using him in a crucial situation even though Chapman doesn't like to work that way. Joe did everything backwards last night.

[Canadouche]

Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.

[SKO]

Didn't Chapman say he doesn't like to come in the game in the middle of an inning? That was the most important thing to me. If that's what he needs to be comfortable, then so be it. Eli is right... he was managing like a regular season game trying to squeeze more out of lesser relievers, but then he managed Chapman like a post season game by using him in a crucial situation even though Chapman doesn't like to work that way. Joe did everything backwards last night.

Yeah, frankly I'd have been less annoyed by his thought process (although I was already screaming for Chapman before the inning started) if he'd just let Rondon try and work his way out of it. Saying "I wasn't going to use Chapman in a situation he's said he's uncomfortable with, and I have faith in Hector" annoys me less than "I was willing to use Chapman in the 8th, but only after I'd let everyone else dick it up first and then used him in a spot where he's uncomfortable."

[SKO]

Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.

It's not hard to fault that at all. Belt has an .883 OPS vs lefties and an OBP of nearly .400, and Wood walks a ton of guys. Rondon's been mostly ass since his arm started hurting. Posey has struggled mightily with velocity this year to the point that even the brain dead FS1 crew noticed, and he opted not to use the guy that throws 104 mph against him.

[CubFaninHydePark]

Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.

It's not hard to fault that at all. Belt has an .883 OPS vs lefties and an OBP of nearly .400, and Wood walks a ton of guys. Rondon's been mostly ass since his arm started hurting. Posey has struggled mightily with velocity this year to the point that even the brain dead FS1 crew noticed, and he opted not to use the guy that throws 104 mph against him.

I feel like he may have read too much into Posey's Game 1 AB against Chapman.

[Shooter]

Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.

It's not hard to fault that at all. Belt has an .883 OPS vs lefties and an OBP of nearly .400, and Wood walks a ton of guys. Rondon's been mostly ass since his arm started hurting. Posey has struggled mightily with velocity this year to the point that even the brain dead FS1 crew noticed, and he opted not to use the guy that throws 104 mph against him.

I feel like he may have read too much into Posey's Game 1 AB against Chapman.

545/545/818 in 11 career ABs. Not a huge sample, but he's fared pretty well against Chapman.

[Slaky]

If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.

Joe fucked up good

It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.

He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.

If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.

To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.

And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).

It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.

Go away

[Saul Goodman]

If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.

Joe fucked up good

It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.

He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.

If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.

To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.

And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).

It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.

Go away

[SKO]

Do you think Joe sleeps with one of Travis Wood's jerseys at night so that he's never too far away from his heloved