Joe Maddon: The Man Behind the Glasses

[SKO]

FUCK YOU JOE JOHN

Fixed.

Nope. Lackey shouldn't even be in there. Joe pulled a Matheny-Wacha and saved a closer for a save opportunity that never existed. Fuck him

[D. Doluntap]

FUCK YOU JOE JOHN

Fixed.

Nope. Lackey shouldn't even be in there. Joe pulled a Matheny-Wacha and saved a closer for a save opportunity that never existed. Fuck him

I agree with that. But Lackey should have focused less on the "gamesmanship" with Chris Taylor, and more, on you know, getting him out, and not surrendering the Cubs fucking 9th walk of the night (which is nuts).

[Saul Goodman]

I don't understand why everyone is saying BUT THE OFFENSE in response to criticism of Joe's dumbass move to bring in Lackey.  As if in the playoffs the offense is expected to score 10 runs per game and the manager's bullpen decisions don't matter.  As if the situation and score that actually existed didn't matter.  You should be able to win a 2-1 game in October.

Bringing in Lackey tonight is the worst move I've ever seen Joe make.  Worse than Game 7 of the WS, even.  Throwing Chapman for that long, the early hook for Kyle, bringing in Lester with a runner on mid-inning, those I could at least come up with a defense.  There's no defending this at all.  He brought in the single worst pitcher on the staff he could have chosen for the situation and score, and even more than that, he asked Lackey to do something he'd never done in his entire career.  Lackey did what you'd expect Lackey to do.  Game over.  I don't understand it at all.  Get your head out of your ass, Joe.

[RW]

I would argue that Joe's worst move as manager of the Cubs was in game 6 when he used Chapman way more than he needed to in a game at hand, if those exist in the playoffs. At least Wade is fresh for three straight nights in Wrigley?

[SKO]

I don't understand why everyone is saying BUT THE OFFENSE in response to criticism of Joe's dumbass move to bring in Lackey.  As if in the playoffs the offense is expected to score 10 runs per game and the manager's bullpen decisions don't matter.  As if the situation and score that actually existed didn't matter.  You should be able to win a 2-1 game in October.

Bringing in Lackey tonight is the worst move I've ever seen Joe make.  Worse than Game 7 of the WS, even.  Throwing Chapman for that long, the early hook for Kyle, bringing in Lester with a runner on mid-inning, those I could at least come up with a defense.  There's no defending this at all.  He brought in the single worst pitcher on the staff he could have chosen for the situation and score, and even more than that, he asked Lackey to do something he'd never done in his entire career.  Lackey did what you'd expect Lackey to do.  Game over.  I don't understand it at all.  Get your head out of your ass, Joe.

This. All of those "IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT JOE DOES, OFFENSE CANT SCORE" assholes are ignoring that the Cubs have led, been tied, or trailed by 1 in every single playoff game going into the 7th/8th inning. The vaunted offenses of their opponents are also sucking against Cubs starting pitching, because hitting elite starting pitching in October is fucking hard. These games are being decided by the bullpens, and a lot of that isn't Joe's fault because every one of his relievers has disappointed at some point this month, but some of it is, and making the absolute dumbest possible decision to use Lackey is absolutely a thing he should be raked over the coals for.

Also if you want to trace every Cubs problem back to them not scoring, maybe stop excusing Joe for running Heyward and Zobrist out there for 3-5 PA a game or for letting Almora face Kenley in the 9th with a runner on when Kenley's OPS vs LHB is .325 points higher, you have Schwarber/La Stella/Avila on the bench, and Martin could replace him on defense (WHICH HE FUCKING DID THE NEXT INNING ANYWAY). Joe's out there putting out a lineup that prioritizes defense over offense, which means he's aiming to win close games anyway, in those situations his management is then even more important because you can't expect to score many runs. He's the one narrowing his own margin for error.

[Quality Start Machine]

Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.

Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.

[SKO]

Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.

Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.

This is some strawman fucking bullshit. Has it ever occurred to you teams lose for multiple reasons?

Here's why the Cubs lost:

1) They didn't score runs
2) They allowed more runs than they scored to the opponent.
3) Both 1 and 2 were somewhat influenced by the manager.

You can focus on the first two bullet points, or you can just focus on the third, or you can focus on all of them. Criticizing Joe does not mean you don't also think Bryant/Rizzo/Willsons need to step up. That said, Joe has to manage for the situation he's in, not the situation he wishes he was in. The Astros have won two LCS games by a combined score of 4-2. Nobody is screaming that their offense needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP. It's hard to score in October. You have to do everything right to win. Joe didn't. He deserves as much criticism for failing to do his job as Bryant/Rizzo et al deserve for failing to do theirs. One doesn't excuse the other.

[Quality Start Machine]

Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.

Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.

This is some strawman fucking bullshit. Has it ever occurred to you teams lose for multiple reasons?

Here's why the Cubs lost:

1) They didn't score runs
2) They allowed more runs than they scored to the opponent.
3) Both 1 and 2 were somewhat influenced by the manager.

You can focus on the first two bullet points, or you can just focus on the third, or you can focus on all of them. Criticizing Joe does not mean you don't also think Bryant/Rizzo/Willsons need to step up. That said, Joe has to manage for the situation he's in, not the situation he wishes he was in. The Astros have won two LCS games by a combined score of 4-2. Nobody is screaming that their offense needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP. It's hard to score in October. You have to do everything right to win. Joe didn't. He deserves as much criticism for failing to do his job as Bryant/Rizzo et al deserve for failing to do theirs. One doesn't excuse the other.

You do realize this is a Dodgers team that finished 12 games ahead of the Cubs, even with their late-season implosion, right? They're really fucking good. Like 2016 Cubs good.

[SKO]

Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.

Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.

This is some strawman fucking bullshit. Has it ever occurred to you teams lose for multiple reasons?

Here's why the Cubs lost:

1) They didn't score runs
2) They allowed more runs than they scored to the opponent.
3) Both 1 and 2 were somewhat influenced by the manager.

You can focus on the first two bullet points, or you can just focus on the third, or you can focus on all of them. Criticizing Joe does not mean you don't also think Bryant/Rizzo/Willsons need to step up. That said, Joe has to manage for the situation he's in, not the situation he wishes he was in. The Astros have won two LCS games by a combined score of 4-2. Nobody is screaming that their offense needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP. It's hard to score in October. You have to do everything right to win. Joe didn't. He deserves as much criticism for failing to do his job as Bryant/Rizzo et al deserve for failing to do theirs. One doesn't excuse the other.

You do realize this is a Dodgers team that finished 12 games ahead of the Cubs, even with their late-season implosion, right? They're really fucking good. Like 2016 Cubs good.

Wow, that's amazing. When you have a chance to beat them in their stadium and steal homefield you should definitely not put in John Lackey to face their best hitter. That'd be a catastrophically stupid decision when you're already facing pretty tough odds.

[SKO]

DPD, but yes, I realize the Dodgers are good. That was actually my point. The Dodgers don't give up a lot of runs. That's not all on Cubs hitters. They won 104 games cuz they can fucking pitch. They had nearly outlasted every single great Dodger reliever, though, and might have had a chance to score and steal one in extras against the lesser parts of their bullpen. Use Wade to get there and worry about who saves when that problem actually comes up.

If the Cubs get their asses kicked, 2015 NLCS-style, that's not on Joe, and I'm certainly not going to blame the Cubs hitters for just flat out getting beat by a very good team. It happens. But if they manage to claw their way back into this and lose the series 4-3 I'm sure going to spend a lot of time wondering how differently things might have gone if Joe hadn't done an indefensibly stupid thing.

[Quality Start Machine]

DPD, but yes, I realize the Dodgers are good. That was actually my point. The Dodgers don't give up a lot of runs. That's not all on Cubs hitters. They won 104 games cuz they can fucking pitch. They had nearly outlasted every single great Dodger reliever, though, and might have had a chance to score and steal one in extras against the lesser parts of their bullpen. Use Wade to get there and worry about who saves when that problem actually comes up.

If the Cubs get their asses kicked, 2015 NLCS-style, that's not on Joe, and I'm certainly not going to blame the Cubs hitters for just flat out getting beat by a very good team. It happens. But if they manage to claw their way back into this and lose the series 4-3 I'm sure going to spend a lot of time wondering how differently things might have gone if Joe hadn't done an indefensibly stupid thing.

In the most Zenlike manner, I'm sure.

[SKO]

DPD, but yes, I realize the Dodgers are good. That was actually my point. The Dodgers don't give up a lot of runs. That's not all on Cubs hitters. They won 104 games cuz they can fucking pitch. They had nearly outlasted every single great Dodger reliever, though, and might have had a chance to score and steal one in extras against the lesser parts of their bullpen. Use Wade to get there and worry about who saves when that problem actually comes up.

If the Cubs get their asses kicked, 2015 NLCS-style, that's not on Joe, and I'm certainly not going to blame the Cubs hitters for just flat out getting beat by a very good team. It happens. But if they manage to claw their way back into this and lose the series 4-3 I'm sure going to spend a lot of time wondering how differently things might have gone if Joe hadn't done an indefensibly stupid thing.

In the most Zenlike manner, I'm sure.

Look I went to my Yogi to help with my chill and he saw me and screamed "WHY THE FUCK DID HE PUT IN LACKEY"

[R-V]

We are all extremely mad online about Joe's decision making last night. I have to think Theo & Jed are even angrier. I'm genuinely curious at what point they start to question if the shittiness of his in-game tactics outweighs his abilities as magical clubhouse whisperer.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

We are all extremely mad online about Joe's decision making last night. I have to think Theo & Jed are even angrier. I'm genuinely curious at what point they start to question if the shittiness of his in-game tactics outweighs his abilities as magical clubhouse whisperer.

I've always sort of expected Rossy to succeed Joe.  Perhaps that day'll come a little sooner than originally thought.

[SKO]

We are all extremely mad online about Joe's decision making last night. I have to think Theo & Jed are even angrier. I'm genuinely curious at what point they start to question if the shittiness of his in-game tactics outweighs his abilities as magical clubhouse whisperer.

I've always sort of expected Rossy to succeed Joe.  Perhaps that day'll come a little sooner than originally thought.

Before last night I always deemed Joe's fuck ups more "annoying quirks you put up with for the overall good Joe provides" (although I don't know how I'd have felt if he'd actually succeeded in blowing game 7), last night was the first time I ever honestly thought "If Jed and Theo fire him I'd say they were justified."

Joe was brought here to instill a winning culture, acclimate the young guys to the majors, help them get over the hump. He did all of that. It's worth asking the question at least if a better tactician like Trueblood might be more the route they want to go now that playing in October every year is pretty likely. The rosters should be good enough that anyone could steer them to October the next few years, they might start to put a premium on someone less likely to fuck it up when they get there.

That said I don't think there's anyway Theo and Jed would fire him one year after a championship.